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post #656 of Old 03-11-2013
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Re: Full or fin keel?

Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Paulo- I'm not disagreeing .Think you are picking a fight where no fight exists. ...

I don't buy cars in their first model year either. Want others to work out the bugs. ....

You may disagree with my decision or the Wolf's but to assume these decisions are not driven by intelligence and made on the basis of fanciful notions or resistance to change is absurd. ...

Why do you have trouble understanding I learn from your thread and appreciate the advances but reserve the right to pick and choose what I think makes sense for me. ...

..To assume the CLIENTS ( not the N.As) don't have real world experience of their limitations ( time, money,physical health, use etc.) and don't know what they want is offensive. I do think that some of the boats on your thread are great boats. But I don't know which ones they are. I do believe I have a great boat.
I am not picking a fight with nobody, Wolf's boat is great if we consider the pleasure of owning a classical or traditional boat, in what regards to maintain alive a tradition and all that kind of stuff. I really appreciate that (i even like that) but thinking that in what regards form/function and the ability to perform a given task, in this case coastal cruising with some offshore cruising, a XIX century design is better or close to what can offer a XXI century sailboat designed to perform the same tasks, makes no sense and It is only in what regards that that I don't agree with Wolfe. His boat is beautiful and a great design, it is not his boat that is in question but his thought that all modern boats, even the ones designed for a similar function are functionally worse then their boat, not by a subjective pleasure satisfaction (of owning a museum piece) but in real objective parameters like seaworthiness, speed and interior comfort and space.

Regarding you it is about the same thing, not regarding a centuries old design, but regarding a 15 year's old design regarding new designs:

Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Paulo has a running thread which I read often with great enjoyment. But those boats don't meet my needs ... Still think trick is to incorporate current knowledge tempered by real world experience. ....
and the thought that a 15 year old design can be better than all boats the market was now to offer. I don't mean subjectively (about aesthetics or irrational dislikes) but objectivity in what regards form /function. Whatever the use you do to your boat I am quite sure the market has to offer better simply because 12 or 13 years is a huge time in what regards boat development and design. I don't mean about money or value (regarding a used boat) that is not what is at stake here, just pure performance in the several items.

With cars it is the same. It makes no sense to say that a same type of car was better 12 years ago than it is now. You say you don't buy new cars for having time for the bugs to be found out. I never had a problem with that regarding cars but I can respect that, but then we are talking about you buying the same model with one or two years, not an older model with 12 years. The new model has already suffered probably 3 big stage improvements over the older model and will out perform it in many ways.

I consider the Outbound a great boat. That is not what is in question but you saying that today market has nothing better to offer (for the satisfying the same functions) regarding an almost 15 year's old design.

Regarding NA to be divorced from the client's experience that does not make sense. Clients like you or any other client knows what they want (even if they have different needs and want different types of boats). If a NA does not offer what they want the Shipyards that uses his designs will go Bankrupt.

On the very competitive European market they have to be very attentive to the client needs and fulfill them. Another thing is to consider that a client know more about technology and design than them and the right way to offer the best solution to a given need. In what regards that the Europeans are more humble and don't question the superior knowledge of the Nas, that is based on solid science, technical knowledge of the different materials, extensive experience and the feedback brought back by hundreds, or thousands of boat owners.



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