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post #731 of Old 03-16-2013
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Re: Full or fin keel?

Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Paulo- Your posts here and on the the other thread reflect a difference in the US v. European markets. Here in the rat race of the US there is a niche of sailors who although they have sailed their whole lives can only now in their 60s and 70s go cruising. They want to crusie the San Quins,east coast of US, the Carribean, the South Pacific, the Hebrides, the west coast of europe and north coast of the Med. THEY DON'T WANT TO GO VOYAGING. THEY WANT TO GO CRIUSING. They will make use of those advances that improve the quality of their lives. Comforts and aesethics are just as important to this group as performance. To paraphase Crealock-the "voyage" should equal the joy of the arrival. Have lots of screen on my boat-stll rather read a book.
The US water tourists don't have the same outlook as the 30 to 40 somethings taking off from europe.
There is a difference between the European and the N. American market. But why? Remember the majority of Europeans cruising are cruising like the Americans are cruising. The Europeans are sailing the Med, north to Sweden, Norway, Great Briton, some go south to the canaries and maybe cross over and continue on into the pacific. Yes we hear of the Europeans going to crazy places in the Artic circle because Europeans love to hear about great adventures and the press reports it. Crealock was right, "voyage should equal the joy of arrival. I think that is true for all most all that go sailing to other places and countries. Europeans love the destination as much as we do.

On the 30 to 40 something outlook. All I can say is that the 30 to 40 age group in Europe has so many more options in sailboats to buy. The affordability of a new boat in Europe is so much better than here in N. America. The 30 to 40 year old in Europe has the same type of income as N. Americans, all the same disavantages like unemployment, the ending recession and far higher taxes. But we see more of them for one major reason a better boat market to get going in. As for the 50,60, even 70 year old market again it is about the same as here. The Majority of that age group in Europe has more income to spend just like here and so they can afford to buy a more expensive and most times a bigger boat. In Europe the options are great, some still buy used boats mostly traditional design and other because of the huge market will go new. Here in America we don't have that new or used market any more.

Yes Americans have a harder time getting use to the European boat. The interior is simple on most of the European boats, the galleys are different and not as seaworthy. On that subject all I can say is if N. America ever gets a new boat market going where boats are being made in the USA they will have simpler interiors than the old days and many will have the European Galley. There is not the rare wood around and the time to do old style joinery without bring the cost up to unreasonable prices. My new boat does not have the same type of interior work as our Mason did. Still nice but I would not have been able to afford the boat if it did have the interior work the Mason had. I like most could live with that as long as it is livable so that I can get the best boat design possible for my needs.

I think it was Oregonian who thought some of us had motives to push European designs. I don't have any motives, I don't sell boats and it's not because I have a new European design on the way. I post on just few threads I find interesting and if I can help someone from N. America who would like to buy a new sailboat instead of an old one then I will point them toward Europe. Why? Because the N. American market is not doing well and there is not a whole lot of options here. I would hope those who are interested in a new boat to sail long distance will open up to new ideas. Why? Because if you do you will have a whole lot more options in getting a very good seaworthy boat available to you. I guess those are my motives.

I will say we are very conservative country, Did I read somewhere that 40% of Americans believe that evolution never took place and in Europe only 4% believe that evolution did not take place. Maybe its the same in boat evolution, there are just going to be more sailors here in N. America no matter what who will not grasp the concept that many new ideas were the evolution of old ideas slowly brought together to give a new and improved product. Certainly the fin keel of the 1970's and 80's is not the same as the fin keel of today.

I would like to say that I have not noticed one attack on some ones older style boat here on this thread. I think posters have pointed out difference in performance but I do not see anyone ripping apart someones boat. This is not a " Is a Hunter a good boat to sail to Greenland in" thread. I know Outbound was interested in a new Boreal like mine but he and the admiral wanted something different in the end. There were things they did not like about the Boreal, the Galley was one. I never took that as an attack on my boat it was his opinion and hey I agree with him I don't like it compared to the Mason 44 galley but we decided we could adapt to the problems. The boat on the whole gave us exactly what we were looking for. By the way if anyone wants to crap on my boat here you are welcome, I want to hear about it, you may know something I don't and I want to know about it so I can solve the problem.

Like " interesting sailboats" this is a very good thread.


Last edited by hannah2; 03-16-2013 at 01:23 PM.
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