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Old 04-17-2013
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Re: Why a racer for cruising discussion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
Paulo, have you been on that boat with the mast on?

Not to change the subject too quickly, but I found that boat a disaster. The rigging is WAY too small. The backstays are connected to a little half-eye fitting smaller than what I use to haul up my tender!! All the rigging seems vastly undersized for that boat, except for perfect weather conditions. The mast is inmast and the slot on that mast is very tight and the mast has no room for a crinkle. That thing is one blow from a hangup. The cabinetry down below is sparse and reminds me of Ikea. We actually saw the plastic wood-looking tape peeling off of the cabinet... on a new boat!! Cant wait to see it in a few years in the humidity. I don't think any of those cabinets are real wood. There are very few lockers and very little space for actually storing stuff. Go look back on my list and tell me where you are going to put that on the 409?!?? I found this pretty typical of all the XX9 series of Jeaunneau. Not one single sailor on our dock liked that boat. It became the joke as something was always going wrong on that boat. And don't they run the bilge pump through the Main engine exhaust? What about the coamings on that boat? Even without cockpit cushions, those coamings are only a few inches tall, especially closer to the wheel where others helping you sail will be sitting. Talk about a sore back after being at sea for a day. Weren't the seats behind he wheel also flat, so that on a heel, there is no way to sit erect?

Yeah its a light boat - lightly built. We had one sitting in our marina new for a long time. They couldn't sell it (new). I think Jeaunneau has made some awesome boats, but I personally found that boat lacking anything desirable. It was built for a pricepoint. I think the base price on it was 259,000. Pfft. Not in this lifetime.

George, if you are interested in that boat, let me give you the name of the brokers in Florida that have several. They would LOVE to sell it to you and will make you a deal you cannot believe. I will be happy to send you their number. Just PM me.

My opinions.

Brian
Uau!!!!

The base price here is 142 400 euros. That gives 149 070 dollars. The boat is made there and you have small tax how the hell the boat costs 259 000 dollars? I guess the rest of your comments go on the same sense that price exaggeration.
Sailboat Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 409 - Jeanneau Yard

The boat is a success here, where the competition is way more tight than on the US. Do you mean that the boat does not sell several times more than the Catalina 400? well, it seems that they don't make the Catalina 400 anymore.

Brian, there is a reason why a boat is taken out of production: It is because it is no more competitive on the market and there are not enough people that want to buy it to make profitable to continue producing it.

I don't like to say bad things about any boat. The market today is so competitive that there are no more bad boats anymore but you really exaggerate in what regards the Jeanneau 409. The Jeanneau is a mass production boat made to a price like the Catalina 400. The price of the Catalina is higher so it is normal to be slightly better finished but on the essentials the Jeanneau is a much better boat than the Catalina, in what regards design and built technologies.

The infusion is really a major improvement in what regards a quality and the Catalina 400 share the same hull with the MKI. We are talking of an almost 20 years old hull design by a, well, a NA that only does Catalinas, face to a new design by one of the better European designers. There are no possible comparison and the performance differences are evident.

Regarding the interior I like much more the one from the Jeanneau. Yes as I said the Catalina is better finished but even so, I would no have changed the Catalina interior for the one of the Jeanneau, neither I would have a a Catalina 400 instead of a a Jeanneu 409, even if they give me the Catalina 400 for the price of the Jeanneau and the Jeanneau is way less expensive.









There is a reason for the 409 to be a sail success and Catalina 400 not being built anymore.

I know that the boat that is made in Europe has a good quality for a mass produced boat and it is a very good sailing boat. The competition is so big here that is impossible for a boat to win the European boat of the year Contest without being a well made, very good sailboat an the Jeanneau was the family boat of the year in 2011.

But maybe the boat made in American is of an inferior quality? I had a look at some reviews on American sail magazines to see if your opinion was shared. After all you say so bad about the boat on so many things so evident to see that they cannot fail to notice it:

Sail magazine:

"So far sales are strong, and it looks like the 409 will maintain Jeanneau’s prominent position in this critical size range....

Finish quality is above average for a mass-production cruising boat....

The Sun Odyssey 409 promises to continue the success enjoyed by its predecessor by providing cruising families with a comfortable, versatile platform that looks sharp and sails well. The several sail-plan options, the different interior layouts, and two keel options make it possible to fine-tune the boat to your individual needs....

Under Sail:

In light to moderate conditions on Biscayne Bay (8 to 10 knots of wind, slowly building to 12) with the rig properly tweaked, the boat tracked well and I found the helm to be nicely balanced and forgiving. In lighter winds that morning we occasionally topped 5 knots sailing close-hauled, and I was able to leave the wheel unattended for long periods without the boat falling off. In somewhat stronger wind later on, we easily topped 6 knots on a close reach, and the helm stayed balanced, with no tendency to round up when the wheel was released.

In significantly stronger wind (15 knots, gusting to 20) during my earlier sail, I found the boat was reassuringly stiff, thanks in part to the hard chine in the topsides running aft from amidships..."


Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 409 | Sail Magazine



Cruising world:

"Immediately noticeable under sail is the refined thinking that Philippe Briand and the Jeanneau Design Team have invested in the deck layout. It wasn’t very long ago that BOTY judges were lamenting the way that work stations were scattered all across the cockpits of new boats, from the coamings to the cabintops, making it difficult to sail shorthanded. No more. On the 409, as well as on many other of this year’s fleet, we were happy to see sailhandling lines and winches laid out within easy reach of the helm....

“I was pleased with the performance of the boat,” said BOTY judge Ed Sherman, having sailed at 6.1 knots into 10 knots of true wind. A 40-horse Yanmar provided plenty of power to push the 409 along at 7.5 knots. In terms of noise under power, the boat was smack-dab in the middle of the fleet: 88 decibels at 2,600 rpm; 91 decibels at 3,000 rpm..

...Like other Jeanneaus, the interior of the 409 is a model of flexibility.

After a thorough inspection, it was clear to all of us that they were thinking about a lot of things."


Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 409 Sailboat Review | Cruising World

On the Bluewater sailing magazine I could only find a test on the 41DS, the sister boat that shares the same hull and quality of finish and interior:

"The new deck saloon design embraces simple cruising elegance while offering innovative sailing systems...

Under power, the 41DS handles easily and well. With a sail drive powered by the standard 40hp diesel, the prop is well positioned to keep water pressure on the rudder, thus even at slow speeds the boat turns with assurance. Straight ahead, the boat will motor at 6.5 knots at a conservative 2000 rpms, yet will climb to her theoretical hull speed of 8.04 knots without much bother at 2800 rpms—just short of the maximum we noted given the fixed three bladed prop...

The 41DS showed itself to be a handy cruiser that motors well and maneuvers easily in tight quarters and a fine sailing design that is intended to make performance cruising easier than ever. This boat can certainly be handled by a couple and is also a cinch for those who sail alone....

Philippe Briand did the basic hull design work when he drew the lines for the Jeanneau 409. The 41DS uses the same hull, keel and rudder as the 409 but has been given an entirely different deck and interior. The 409 was one of the most successful new designs in Jeanneau’s line in recent years and has earned the reputation of being a quick and capable racer-cruiser....

The fit and finish of the new generation of Jeanneaus continues to impress with attention to detail and the depth of the seamanship that informs decisions about where to put things and how to build them—enough to make any owner proud...

Down below, the somewhat traditional interior (by modern Euro standards) will appeal to the American market, as will the overall quality of the craftsmanship that goes into the boat.

Like the 409 in the racer-cruiser slot of the market, the new 41DS promises to offer her owners a ton of great cruising at a price that is a very good value both today and in the future, when you may want to move up to a larger boat."


BLUE WATER BOATS | JEANNEAU SUN ODYSSEY 41DS | BLUE WATER SAILING MAGAZINE | CRUISING, SAILING, BOAT REVIEWS, GEAR, CHARTERING | 888.800.SAIL

Brian it seems that the fact that you own a Catalina and seem to be in love with it makes you see defects and shortcomings where professional testers (that test a compare douzens of boats) find nothing wrong, and I am not talking only about US testers boat about all those European magazines testers had choose this boat as European family boat on the year he come to the market.

Nobody found as you say: "I found that boat a disaster. The rigging is WAY too small. The backstays are connected to a little half-eye fitting smaller than what I use to haul up my tender!! All the rigging seems vastly undersized for that boat, except for perfect weather conditions. The cabinetry down below is sparse and reminds me of Ikea. We actually saw the plastic wood-looking tape peeling off of the cabinet."

The general consensus in what regard the finish and the interior was:

" Finish quality is above average for a mass-production cruising boat..The several sail-plan options, the different interior layouts, and two keel options make it possible to fine-tune the boat to your individual needs....The fit and finish of the new generation of Jeanneaus continues to impress with attention to detail and the depth of the seamanship that informs decisions about where to put things and how to build them—enough to make any owner proud""

I pretty much agree with what they say, that is about what I have heard by all that professionally reviewed and test sailed the boat and confirms my personal impressions on the boat.

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 04-17-2013 at 09:08 PM.
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