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post #60 of Old 04-19-2013
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Re: Why a racer for cruising discussion...

Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
Hey Paulo,

I watched the video. I completely understand we have different tastes in boats. But I have some questions.

1) How would that boat, with hard chimes, handle a steep sea with a short period? Even my boat is tough in those conditions. I was on a Hunter with a flat bottom and it sounded like a PDQ going into those waves: Bang! Bang! Bang! Do you think that boat would do that? Would you buy a boat with hard chimes like that for cruising?

2) Of course, this is all from pictures, but I don't remember seeing any cabinetry on the walls. That means much of the storage has to go into the settees. Did they put all the tankage below the floorboards? If not, wouldn't that kill the storage on that boat?

3) Wouldn't you prefer more wood? Nothing to do with the performace of the boat, but it didn't seem very warm.

4) Would you have a problem not having a place to put your feet for long distance voyaging? For example, when on the same tack for a long period of time, we stretch our feet across to the foot hold between the two settees on the table. THis was one of the issues I had with the Blue Jacket. Without that, you are forced to sit on the highside - exactly as they are showing in the video. Now that isn't a problem for a day sail, but could you personally do that for a long period of time? Wouldn't your butt fall asleep? Wouldn't your back get sore. My issue with many of the new boats coming out (production boats primarily) is the rediculous coaming in the cockpit and the flat seats behind the wheel. I realize they are trying to maximize the space below, but in doing so, have they made a less comfortable boat for long distance sailing?

5) My boat is 41'6", and 13'6 wide. That boat is 39 long, and 14.5 wide. And you call my boat fat!!! (Snicker)

6) I like the storage area which they are using as a line locker. I really wish I had that on my boat. I said before that one of the failures of many modern boats is the crappy lazarettes.

7) What do you think that boat makes good in 15-20kts sustained? What if she were loaded down with a couple two-three thousand of pounds of gear? How would that change the charachteristics of that boat? Since it is devoid of any real cabinetry, where would you put things that you have to get to often and quickly, like spot lights, paper charts, paper towels, flour, sugar, coffee, large pots and pans like a pressure cooker, etc? If you think about the things, even in a house, that you use on a daily basis, don't you want them easily accessible? We end up having to put a lot of stuff in our settees, and having to pull the cushions and boards to get to them and mangle through all the stuff is a PITA. Would you agree?

8) I agree with you that many of the production boats stink at storage. Large salons, terrible handholds, cruddy storage. I have LONG been screaming about that. They make these huge salons that look great in the boat shows, but when you have to load it up, there are very few cabinets. I cannot tell you the number of boats I have been on that don't even have fiddleboards! So in general I agree with your statement, though it depends on the boat (both ways). I will tell you that my boat, for instance, has a nice amount of cabinetry on it... and I still had to add more. Other boats that come at a higher price point, like you were mentioning, already have that.

Its a neat looking boat. Pretty lines. Kinda pricey though... I saw the older models, and 2008 at that, were over a quarter million US on yahctworld. I wonder what that boat costs new. Do you know? Just curious.


PS A Catalina 400, though I think has many good qualities, is NOT my ideal cruising boat. I hope you don't think it is. I like many things about it, hate some things, but in general have made it work. There are definitely better boats that I like better... but $$$$!!! I have not sailed one, but I really like the looks of the X yachts. I have suggested that to many people (and Sabres and a couple of others) that have a larger budget than I do. But that is why I am cruising now with a boat I make work instead of working at an office to have my perfect boat sitting at the marina!!! I just remind myself that both me and the guy next to me on the Taswell 49 has the same view. His is just a lot more quiet (no kids). HEHE!

PPS Anyone ever see Romancing the Stone? The boat in that movie is in our marina. Kinda cool.
Brian, I will discuss not this here but I would say that I consider that boat to be a better voyage boat than the Catalina or any other main market mass produced boat. Not my opinion only it is a consensual opinion in Europe. The boat was designed for that and perfected along many years.

The boat as designed with long range voyage in mind having as basis the more adapted hull boats forms to solo sailing, particularly in the trade winds that is where everybody travels, at least while sailing. That is pretty evident to me and the advantages are too many to list, at least in what regards my available time. The boat is extensively used for that and it is as popular for that as the several brands of aluminium boats. It is one of the very few brands that are not shrinking with the crisis but growing. That shows the interest of the ones that like voyaging for the concept.

In fact I had test sailed one (previous model) because that was really one of the boats that I was considering and in what regards storage and interior space my wife's favorite (with the Southerly 42).

I had in fact to struggle with her to choose another boat. The boast is fast and it is a performance voyage boat but it was not nervous enough for me. I mean it did not deliver that crisp feeling that a sports car deliver and that make driving or sailing truly enjoyable for me. That was the same reason why I did not consider the Jeanneau 409 (the faster performance version).

Saying all that, I would say that it would not be the ideal boat for someone that would chose to circumnavigate or voyage the wrong way, I mean against the preponderant winds but then, neither the Catalina.

Regarding going upwind with waves, both your boat and the RM are not a model of comfort but I doubt that boat would be worse than yours. What counts there is how fine are the entries and the tridimensional shape of the hull, specially the bow and frontal part. The RM even if it has a fat ass has finer entries than the Catalina :

The boat foot print, I mean will also be much smaller on the RM. These type of boats, like the shape of them or not, have a diagonal thin foot print while sailing. Looking at the footprint we would say that we are talking about a narrow boat.

Regarding being Fat, I suspect my daughter would call Fat to both but definitively the Catalina is a lot fatter: after all we are comparing boats with the same length, one with 7400g and the other with 9299Kg, a huge difference in what regards wet surface. Non notwithstanding the much smaller RM wet area they have a similar sail area and you know what that means regarding speed.

Regarding length the Hull of the Catalina is slightly bigger (12.34 to 11.99m). They do that at RM to make sure that the boats pay in Marinas the charge for boats under 12 m but if you look at the more relevant data in what regards interior space and performance, the LWL, then things become inverted and then the RM is considerably bigger than the Catalina (11.13 to 11.68m).

Catalina Boats | 2012 Catalina Ocean Series 400mkII



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Last edited by PCP; 04-19-2013 at 04:42 PM.
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