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post #119 of Old 04-26-2013
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Re: Why a racer for cruising discussion...

Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Yeah Paulo:
I do this for a living. I've done it for a living for the last 46 years. I have not interest in argument for argument sake. I have designed every kind of boat from the Baba 30 to the Flying Tiger 30. I know boats. I have done 70ULDB's and 60' ULDB cruising boats. I'll wait for the list of your designs. I have about 7,000 boats on the water that I have designed.
What has that to do?... I mean the boats I have designed. It was not me that have designed those voyage boats. You should ask how many boats Jean Marie Finot or Marc Lombard have designed and the answer would be probably a lot more than you, specially on the last years were they are very successful designers and looked by major boat builders for designing production boats.

That is a stupid argument anyway. They could have designed the boats and they could have not had any success like that very narrow cruiser boat that you designed some years back that could fit in a container.

The success of a design has nothing to do with the one that design it but is measured by the number of boats sold and by how the functions for what the boat was designed are fulfilled and that again can be measured by the interest that the sailors have on that boat and the way it is used.

Both the Cigale and the RM are making boats along those lines, basing the hull in Open sail boats, for 15 or twenty years. The fact that not only the boats are used for the function they were designed but that they are not only kept in production as in the case of the RM increased its production by 2 or 3 times show clearly that they are a success and there are many sailors using those boats and that concept for long range voyaging.

The Pogo cruisers are a more modern and extreme concept in what regards cruising and long range voyage but the fact that they have increased production and even so have a waiting list of an year shows obviously the success of the concept and that many cruisers want that kind of boats has voyage boats and use them like that. There are already many cruising extensively in distant places.

Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
I think some people try to draw a hard line between "racer" and "cruiser". I say, for sake of argument, that no such line can exist. ...

... I want performance first then I'll see what I can do to get the comfort and safety I need. ... I really don't like the attitude, "I'll tell you how to have fun damn it!"

It wasn't so very long ago that the Valiant 40 was considered too radical to be a serious offshore cruising boat.

I can remember John Neale storming into my office and berating me for being so stupid as to design an offshore boat without a full keel. Now John sails a H-R with a spade rudder.
I find amusing that you have said that and then contradict it on a subsequent post.

Bob, like in the Vailant many decades go, the success of the boats and the use sailors give to them talk by themselves.

John Neale, many decades ago, called you stupid for designing what was then a light and fast offshore cruising boat that proved late to be a success and you are calling stupid to designers that design modern lighter fast voyage with hulls based on Open beamy boats. I find that very ironic specially because when jonhn Neal said that to you the Vailant had not proved yet as a very successful long range voyager while the RM, the Cigale and the Pogo are already very successful voyage boats.

They are not only used in large numbers has the RM 1260 was chosen by test sailors from many countries of Europe as 2013 European family cruiser and the Pogo 12.50 was chosen last year as European performance cruiser.

Against facts there are no arguments and it is not you saying "I know you are being less than intelligent. I'd say "stupid" that changes that.

This is not a theory, this is reality.

Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
For long range, offshore cruising displacement has it's benefits. .. You need displ to give this. This is not a theory. This is not a philosophy. This is reality.
I bet that it was what John Neale tell you when he called you stupid for designed the Vailant 40 years ago

For the sake of argument, this kind of beamy boats based on solo racing boats are not even the type of boat I prefer. That does not make me blind to his advantages, his success among sailors has a fast voyage boat or the quality of the design functionality and adequacy for the propose they were created.

In what regards that, more than mine or any other opinion, the success of this type of boats among sailors speaks for themselves.



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Last edited by PCP; 04-26-2013 at 06:41 AM.
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