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changing helm style

5K views 47 replies 19 participants last post by  Ajax_MD 
#1 ·
I am not sure if it is possible, or way too costly, but has anyone ever converted an Oday 25 from Tiller steering to a wheel helm? :):)
 
#4 ·
Really doesn't make much sense.. lots of weight added in the wrong place for a boat that size, pricey project too, and a lot of 'tiller intended' cockpits won't accommodate a wheel that's a decent size. Too small a wheel keeps the helmperson inboard with poor sightlines to jib telltales and waves when beating.
 
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#5 ·
Just get a boat with a wheel if you like steering that way. In return, you will get a lot more complicated system and almost no feedback from the rudder when sailing. On a small boat like that wheel steering is an overkill. And if you want to 'pimp your boat' so to speak, there are other projects that would make a lot more sense from a practical point of view.
 
#7 ·
I think the answer to your question is: Yes it is possible, and yes it is way too costly. And as you can see, most think it is not such a great idea. I agree is can be frustrating having a tiller sweeping through the cockpit when it is full of guests. However, at least at anchor you can tilt the thing up and out of the way, unlike with a steering pedestal.
 
#8 ·
I agree is can be frustrating having a tiller sweeping through the cockpit when it is full of guests.
Making a short tiller that you put on when you have a lot of guests is a very easy solution. True, you have to push a lot harder on the short tiller to steer and the sheets may be harder to reach, but it does solve your basic problem.
 
#9 ·
the Oday 25 has an removable rudder mounted on the transom and the tiller pivots up behind the transom so at anchor it is not in the way of anyone. but connecting it to a wheel would be a very expensive project. it would cost more then buying another boat with a wheel.
 
#10 ·
I agree with the general sentiment already expressed. I was kind of in your shoes after my ASA 101 and 103 courses a couple of years ago. The course was taught on a C&C 29 foot boat with wheel steering, and it was just so intuitive, that I thought it would be preferable to tiller steering. Well, it was very difficult to find a small boat, say 25 or so feet with wheel steering I just gave up. Once I got used to the tiller, which took all of about an hour, I've not felt the need to go to a wheel.

You may wish to search the Oday sailboat owners forum at OdayOwners.com - Home, since I am sure someone has made that modification at some time in the past and they can give you the pluses and minuses of the conversion.

Good luck!
 
#11 ·
I agree with the general sentiment already expressed. I was kind of in your shoes after my ASA 101 and 103 courses a couple of years ago. The course was taught on a C&C 29 foot boat with wheel steering, and it was just so intuitive, that I thought it would be preferable to tiller steering. Well, it was very difficult to find a small boat, say 25 or so feet with wheel steering I just gave up. Once I got used to the tiller, which took all of about an hour, I've not felt the need to go to a wheel.
I had the reverse experience. I'd primarily sailed tiller boats (including in my classes at the Center for Wooden Boats) and came to prefer the feedback that you can feel through the tiller and the simplicity of the design. My first boat also had one.

When I moved up to my current boat most of the options that I was considering had wheels (including the Pearson 28-2 that I bought). I still think I prefer tillers, but I do like how the wheel opens up the cockpit and once I overhauled the steering system I got back the feedback that I liked of a good tiller setup. It's amazing how badly most wheel systems are maintained and how big of a difference a little fresh grease and teflon makes.

I would never bother doing the conversion, there are much better ways to spend the money. With a tiller boat enjoy the simple maintenance, low cost autopilots and replacement parts, good helm feedback, and light system weight.
 
#12 ·
I think it may have been a factory option. A friend has an ODay 25 with a wheel. It uses a Teleflex cable to push/pull the rudder back and forth, similar to power boat steering. The wheel and engine controls are on a pedestal and it has a Zephyr sail drive.

The setup works well enough, but as others have pointed out, it will be a pricey upgrade.
 
#13 ·
I've seen it done on a Catalina 25, and I know Edson sells kits to do it. But as others have pointed out, the cockpits on those boats (both the O'Day and the Catalina) aren't set up for a wheel. You'll have a really hard time getting around the wheel to get to anything, and IMHO that's asking for trouble. I agree with the others, you're better off getting a different boat. I was adamant that my next boat have a wheel, and spent a lot of time looking at boats, cockpit layouts, etc., to find something that would work for me. In the end, I found that a few of the newer Hunter 25's, and some of the new Catalinas, have wheels, as do the Seawards. If I wasn't budget constrained, I'd have taken a much harder look at the Seaward 25.

If you do decide to go forward, one option to consider is a transom-mounted wheel. I've seen this done on an Islander 28. To me, it isn't the greatest of options (you sit straddling the wheel's mechanism) but if you really insist, that's probably the most practical solution for a boat that size while still opening up the cockpit.
 
#14 ·
In case all those naysayers haven't talked you out of it by now, here's Edson's specific instructions how to do it on your boat:

http://www.edsonmarine.com/support/wheel_conversion/pdfs/S-752.pdf

I have a Catalina 250 with a wheel, and everything said here is true. It is tough to get around the wheel on such a small boat. As one who has chartered up to 38' boats, I can tell you the wheel is always tough to get around on ANY size boat.

There's always a religious debate over which gives you a "bigger cockpit." If you're sitting at the dock (or at anchor) having drinks, the tiller is a bigger cockpit because you can swing it up. (But a removable wheel would solve much of that problem.) But while you're sailing, I contend that the wheel gives you a bigger cockpit because pilot sits behind the wheel, and two people can sit to either side of the wheel, which is space that would need to be left clear with a tiller.
 
#15 ·
I never sit directly behind the wheel. I usually sit on the high side behind the wheel. I took out the bench part directly behind the wheel to give me more room when I stand behind the wheel or to move from one high side to the other when tacking.

Dave
 
#16 ·
If the cockpit wasn't designed for a wheel, there is a good chance it won't work very well. I have a friend with a Jeanneau 29 that had a retrofit wheel installed. They had to with go with a very small diameter wheel, (kinda like the Mac 26x wheel), and even then they had to notch out one of the lazarette lids so it could be fully opened.

The main benefit of the wheel over a tiller is the mechanical advantage you get on bigger boats. On a boat your size that is not an issue. The trade off is that you get less feel, and slower response. You can do things with a tiller boat that you can't with a wheel, particularly when it comes to docking and tight maneuvering.

Besides, wheels look silly on small boats! :D
 
#18 ·
A fellow Sailnett'er has an Edson wheel installed in her O'day 25. (She hates it)

I call it a disaster. Due to the transom-hung rudder, it required cutting holes where there really shouldn't be a hole, and it just added totally unnecessary complexity to a small, simple boat.

If you simply cannot function without feeling like you're behind the wheel of an automobile, if you really enjoy losing all sense of weather helm, to aid you in properly helming your small boat, and if you absolutely must have that "Master and Commander" pretentiousness onboard your modest yacht, then I highly encourage you to jam an Edson wheel and pedestal into your O'Day 25.

In fact, I can donate two instrument pods for yout speed and depthfinder to really clutter up your cockpit.:rolleyes:
 
#19 ·
I had my own boat at one time and sailed for about 2 years in my 22 footer. I have been renting 22-25 footers, so most of my time has spent in a tillered boat. I have recently been renting 30+ footers with wheels and don't really like them. Mostly because I am not very good at them. No feedback from the wheel until the boat was healing pretty hard.

Here is why I like the tiller.

I am not trapped in the back of the boat.
I can steer with my leg.
I can tack the jib myself while steering with my leg.
Feedback on the tiller when in the groove. Pressure on the tiller when the boat heals.

Every time I take out the bigger boat I am uncomfortable with the wheel and do a lot of zigzagging at first but am slowly getting smoother with it. Eventually you will get comfortable with a tiller and then miss it when you step up to a bigger boat, enjoy what you got.
 
#20 ·
I feel like a wheel eliminates one of your senses, sort of like losing your hearing or sense of touch, but I fully understand that some boats are simply better sailed with a wheel than a tiller.

The best way that I've seen, to overcome the loss of feedback from a wheel, is to tie 3 colors of shock cord onto the wheel:

Black (on top)- Rudder amidships
Red- Rudder at 45 degrees on stbd tack
Green- Rudder at 45 degrees on port tack.

Now you have a visual indicator of how much weather helm you have, to aid in your main sheet trimming. If the red or green shock cord is at the "top" of the wheel, you'd better start thinking of dropping the traveler, or easing the mainsheet.

On some boats, there is also an audible indicator of rudder cavitation when the boat heels over to far, and much of the rudder is out of the water.

None of this changes my opinion about wheels and pedestals on small boats, but if you simply must have it, at least do it right, and sail well.
 
#26 ·
That is a good idea, except for using 45 degrees as your threshold for weather helm. That is way WAY too much helm! If you are dragging your rudder around at 45deg you have got serious balance problems, and you are going very slow. You should mark your wheel to indicate around 8 degrees of rudder angle as a measure of too much helm.
 
#23 · (Edited)
I think that calling the OP pretentious for considering a wheel might have had that effect. This is the kind of thing that happens when debates take on religious fervor. Newcomers don't feel comfortable asking questions when they are ridiculed.

But you're right, it's still Chef2Sail's fault. :laugher
 
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#22 ·
Wheels that provide no feedback are wheels that aren't being well maintained. I like tillers, but I do like my wheel a lot better after lubing the bearings, cables, and chain.

Previously it was like sailing with the brake always on. If I was poorly trimmed and only staying in a straight line due to rudder angle I could get off of the wheel and the boat would keep going in a straight line. I couldn't feel anything in the wheel.

Now in the same conditions you can feel the rudder being pushed sideways in the water below. Let go of the wheel and the boat rounds up immediately, just like a nice tiller system. Get the boat into groove and the wheel loses all pressure and feels great.

Edson makes it pretty annoying to service their pedestals. If they did it properly there would be external grease points that could be reached without taking apart the top of the pedestal. They recommend annual lubrication, but I strongly doubt that anyone does it that often and suspect that most boats go decades without lubrication. I got the idea that my wheel could feel better by playing with the wheel on a brand new boat and seeing how smooth and free running it felt.

I still wouldn't put a wheel on a 25' boat.
 
#27 ·
Wheels that provide no feedback are wheels that aren't being well maintained. I like tillers, but I do like my wheel a lot better after lubing the bearings, cables, and chain.
Are you suggesting the cheapest wheel steered boat at my busy charter company does not have the helm tuned to factory specs:p. No wonder I do not like wheel steering. Now that i think about it it really was mushy and erratic on the helm, but this boat probably gets used a lot but not a lot of deep maintenance.
 
#30 ·
To the OP if he's not run and hid...
I know of at least one person who has done this (I can't say as to why) in our club with the same boat. I'll snap a picture if he's put in yet.

I can tell you I dont' think he's all that fond of the way it works.

Might be an Oday 26.
 
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