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How many insure their boat with only liability insurance?

20K views 61 replies 38 participants last post by  pdqaltair 
#1 ·
I raised this question on another thread concerning insurance, however I left out an important detail about liability insurance.

I was interested in finding out how many average people, (by average I mean, individuals who struggle to enjoy sailing on lower incomes) insure their boats with only liability insurance?

I agree, liability insurance would be a required facet of owning a boat, just like marine towing insurance, but when it comes to comprehensive insurance, how many do without and what would be the value that most go uninsured?

I know a lot depends on what reserves a person has but, let's say a person who does not have a lot in reserve except the boat itself. Is it worth the money to insure it if it cost less than, say 30K, 50K, or 100K, and not what one would call a perfect boat but one that is seaworthy and comfortable to sail to any destination.

I am in the process of having to decide if I want to go the route of liability only coverage or not and your responses would be appreciated. I have an older boat and I am tired of jumping through the insurance/surveyor hoops and I wanted to find out if their are others out there or do I need to just suck it up and just get the insurance.

Other thread:
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...rant-how-would-you-respond-2.html#post1024802
 
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#2 ·
In my experience your ability to get insurance is ALL or NONE and to get liability only does NOT remove any hoops

The wife and myself did take the risk while Seafever was in the driveway because we had to as it was not insurable BUT were are sure not prepared to roll the dice at the 20 k level

Pretty much nothing ever happened in my 55 year life until 6 weeks after a 20 month refit when my mooring neighbor put his bow pulpit through the cabintop

I get rather nervous in my mooring area as there are four well know 30' boats with extensive bow pulpit and rail damage from collisions
 
#4 ·
Full replacement coverage for boat, motor and trailer. $1 million liability, $10,000 medical, coverage for items stolen from the boat.

I sleep at night with this coverage.

I, too, am worried about collisions. Know a guy couple boats down who hit the opposite marina's dock 2x so far this year.
 
#5 ·
I was unable to get insurance without going through major hoops for my latiest boat because my boat is a kit boat and is consitered home made. I got it for free but put 5k in cash into materials and at least 200 hours overhauling her. I think I'm ok with only liability. Rolling the dice may also be easier for me because I'm at a dock and I'm on the great lakes not the ocean. I also redisigned the boat so that it would still float if it were cut into pieces. Really sick of giving my hard earned money to insurance companys just to get screwed when you do have a problem. Insurance is a scam to make the rich richer. I only keep it to protect my family.
 
#6 ·
I insured my first boat during building. When I asked about insuring her after launching the broker came up with a policy which covered lightening( we get lightening every few years at most) theft of entire vessel.( She was not rigged. ) explosion( there was nothing to explode on her, and fire( there was no stove nor heater on board.) I told him where to stick his policy, and have had no insurance of any kind since.
I once made a claim for medical insurance and the company( world wide mediclaim, travel underwriters) refused to pay because I didnt have a credit card for them to put my expenses on, and force me to go to court to get paid. My brother, and others I have met also had bad experiences with them. I have little confidence insurers will pay any claim made .
 
#8 ·
our boat is our house so full coverage is the only way for us to go, even with it being a problem finding insurance for an older boat.

I wouldn't have thought this was a problem untill I heard of a sailboat hitting a million dollar yacht at a fuel dock causing a few thousand in damage and the sailboat owners had no insurance. The yacht owner brushed it off but if I was the one that was hit I would either own another boat or be in jail for assalt.
 
#9 ·
We currently carry agreed-value insurance as well as liability. We do that b/c our yacht club insists on it. When we head off to become full-time cruisers next spring we will likely only carry liability. The reason, once again, is b/c it seems more and more marinas are insisting on boats having liability coverage just to dock.

Personally, if I could avoid buying any insurance, I would. This seems to be increasingly hard to do, at least in the rich parts of the world, so it will be liability-only for me.
 
#12 ·
I have a liability only policy with $300k limit and the environmental coverage...it's amazingly inexpensive and helps me sleep at night. Not having comprehensive also keeps me focused on not letting her sink!
 
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#17 ·
It was only $15 a year to cover my boat and trailer for $8000. I wasn't going to get full coverage but for $15 I couldn't pass it up. They said book value was only $3200 for my boat but still gave me the $8000 coverage. But if I were to sell my boat I would be asking that much. Would I get that much,well.........
 
#18 ·
I guess another consideration is the length of the vessel.

It seems it is easier for vessels that are 35' or less to get reasonable insurance, where as vessels over that size, and older than 20 years, to get anything that seems reasonable.

To further define the question, how many people with vessels over 35' carry only liability only?

But even that is curious, do vessels greater that 35' sink more than vessels that are less than that size? Wonder why the distinction is not about whether a boat is trailerable or not? That seems realistic? Is it that much harder to take care of a 40' than a 35'?
 
#19 ·
In my talks with insurance brokers they seem to be concerned about your ability to dock bigger boats without doing to much damage to the neighbors

Seriously around here its like parking cars at a Ferrari dealer NOT to many cheep incidents :)
 
#20 ·
In my talks with insurance brokers they seem to be concerned about your ability to dock bigger boats without doing to much damage to the neighbors

Seriously around here its like parking cars at a Ferrari dealer NOT to many cheep incidents :)
I carry a 100 Ton Master, with towing and sailing endorsements, I have yet to have an insurance company give me a break for my experience. Age of the boat seems to be more of a factor than operator experience.

And if marina location and the value of my neighbors boat is important, then give me a run down marina with people who are not so concerned about the value of their boat more than they are about the fun they had out on the water. A well weathered boat is more pleasing to my eyes than a shiny Clorox bottle with strings attached.
 
#22 · (Edited)
I have 4 old cars (newest is 23 years old) and carry only liability coverage. I can manage the risk of damage by driving well (at least trying to), and parking in relatively safe places, as well as not being concerned about minor bangs, scrapes and scrathes others may inflict on these well broken in modes of transport.

My boat harbor requires $300,000 liability (which I would carry in any case to pay for damage I might cause, and pontential pollution and recovery cost I might inflict). I also carry comprehensive to cover the cost of my boat- it is cheap and will offset the cost of fixing or replacing the boat in case of damage. With a boat there is a lot of damage that may at times be out of your control, since everthing entails some risk- like potential sinking at the dock, lightning strikes, collisions by others, the high cost of a tow in case of a demasting or rig failure, or engine problems, hitting an object just below surface, and grounding.
 
#23 ·
Just liability for me.. but my dockmates have boats that are pretty inexpensive too, we're on freshwater, and my boat is a write-off at $5k (insured for $10k)... bluebook says it's worth $8k. I have $5k in sails on it. Yep, never seeing the money I put into my boat again, but I'm ok with that!
 
#25 ·
Some may 'sleep well at night' with full insurance, but consider this. I have done much consulting for insurance people. The claims agents are paid bonuses based on how many claims they DENY. Yes, deny. So if one claims agent pays out 80% of his claims and another only 60%, the latter is the superstar and the former is fighting for his job. If there is any doubt, wiggle room or uncertainty you may not get your claim accepted. The percentage of rejected claims varies, but I've heard its as high as 30%. So forget your security blanket, you don't have one. If there is damage, there is an excellent chance you will hear "sorry, not paying".

There are vast risks all around us. You'd have to stay in bed to live safe. There are thousands of situations in which you might get sued, or be liable for something, and you simply cannot be insured for many things. And if you could find the coverage, they'd try to wiggle out of paying.

Outside of the US, people do not face bankruptcy due to massive fines if their diesel tank leaks, or if their boat sinks. Ah, the land of the free....
 
#30 ·
So what are you saying here? Do you have a liability only policy? Is this your self-deluding excuse to not carry any insurance? If so, please stay away from my boat.

You're welcome to think that comprehensive insurance coverage is a ripoff. That's your right, even if you're exaggerating. But if your boat catches fire and burns down my marina and my boat, I don't want you running and hiding, or declaring bankruptcy to escape your responsibility. I want all my boating neighbors to have liability insurance to make me whole if you screw up my boat.

It's what responsible boaters do. It's what reputable marinas require.
 
#26 ·
Thanks for this Richard. It's part of the reason I'm no fan of insurance. My main objection to being forced into buying insurance has to do with risk vs cost.

By any measure the actually risks associated with cruising for most people is exceedingly small. The cost for full coverage insurance is not. The problem is that many of us are forced into buying this product, and therefore have little ability to make a rational choice.
 
#27 ·
We pulled our 20' fishing boat and brought her home for safe keeping with Sandy approaching. Huge maple crushed her into the ground. One phone call, no questions asked, 3 pics emailed and two weeks later a check for $10k arrived. They said it's ours to do with now. We sold the outboard for an additional $2500.
 
#29 ·
Excellent. You are one of the 70-80% that has their claims accepted. A clear, cut and dry situation. But rest assured, if it were not so simple, an agent would have appeared, looking for ways not to pay. That is there job. They get paid well to reject claims. They try hard to do this.

There were wild fires in my friend's neighborhood a few years back. her neighbor's house burned to the ground, but fortunately my friend's house was undamaged by flames. However, the smell of smoke was strong. It really stank in there. She said two agents came to her house, and looked around for an hour Then they sat at her kitchen table, looked her in the eye and said "what do you mean you smell smoke? WE don't smell smoke". She had the choice of litigation, but was advised against it. Her costs to repair the home were about $30,000.
 
#28 ·
Just have liability required by marina on my boat. It's a Hunter 23.5 I keep on a trailer there. I guess it's in case the mast falls on someone else's boat? Most of the boats in my marina never move and any fuel in them probably wouldn't burn if you threw a match on it. I could definitely see the case to be made for spill remediation though. LOL.

Kevin
 
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