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*Thinking* about a bigger, better boat

12K views 74 replies 29 participants last post by  arf145 
#1 ·
We've had our Pearson 28-2 for 5 years, and she's been great for day sailing and a little cruising on the Chesapeake. Yet we're thinking of moving to something larger. My wife and I day sail together, but she leaves the cruising to me and any friends I can entice because she finds overnighting on the 28-2 to be the equivalent of "camping."

I didn't get this at first because I backpack, and the boat accommodations seemed luxurious by comparison. A roof! Mattresses! Hot water! Seats! Lights! But I can now see it through her eyes, and she sees Ice Box! Cramped quarters! Climbing up to the V berth! Old foam mattresses! No stowage! Alcohol stove!

So we're sort of looking. Basically, we want a boat that is still fun to day sail on the light-wind Chesapeake, has a shoal keel or centerboard (say under 5 ft) so we don't have to sweat every anchorage, two cabins and some room so we can take another couple along on 2 to 5 day trips.

More specifically:
* Under $100K
* Prefer to stay under say 38 feet
* No keel stepped masts (I like a dry bilge!)
* No fixer uppers--Happy to maintain and upgrade, but I brought the 28-2 back from the dead. I don't want to do that this time.
* Would prefer something 10 years old or less (or ferociously maintained!)
* No Volvo engines
* No Hunters--No offense! But I hate the limitations of the severly swept back spreaders of the B&R rig! I can just tolerate the slightly swept back spreaders I've got.

When I look on YW, I seem to have gotten us down to Beneteau and Catalina, which is fine, but I'm open to suggestions--or nasty comments if you must ;)
 
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#2 ·
#3 ·
Boy! Howdy... does that "back-packing" comment ring true. More than all the luxuries of home-away-from-home. Literally, "cabin" camping vs tent/tarp/blue sky camping.
AFA suggestions....
I looked using the beam as a preset requirement. Wide beam equals more room! ;) sailboatdata.com and go thru the list using beam as selector. As the list rolls down, scan beam and when one comes up at or beyond yer tick point, check the other specs..like length/draft requirements. After while, you'll be able to visually sort pretty quick

Beam-ey mebbe not to fast; but cruising is meant ta be slow and easy; isn't it? :)
 
#5 ·
Yep, for that dollar and that year range, you will be looking at a production boat. I have sailed and like the Catalina 36. Reasonably fast and fun to sail. The 34 can be a better performer but I like the comfort of the 36 better. A bene Oceanis series is also worth looking at. Honestly, if you don't mind the tighter beam, I really like the first series. However, I would not want to cruise on one. The c36 is a boat I would take cruising.

Brian
 
#7 ·
It's funny Tom because the first half of your email read like my search when going from my previous boat to the 28-2. It's got so much storage space and is so much more comfortable than my Catalina 25 was (and we still enjoyed cruising on that). I guess that is why it's three foot itis.

I'm curious to see what you end up with and hope you enjoy the search.
 
#8 ·
It's funny Tom because the first half of your email read like my search when going from my previous boat to the 28-2. It's got so much storage space and is so much more comfortable than my Catalina 25 was (and we still enjoyed cruising on that). I guess that is why it's three foot itis.
I guess I got eleven foot itis. I went from cruising in a Catalina 25 to cruising in a Catalina 36.

Be prepared, you cannot go back, at least I cannot. Camping is a good comparison. Last summer I solo'd to South Manitou Island in Lake Michigan. I explored the island and the beaches on a cold rainy fall day, as did a few of the island campers. The island is only open to backpack campers and offers primitive sites only. When I got back to my boat I took a hot shower, changed into warm clothes, turned on the stereo, opened a bottle of wine, and then started dinner. All the time I thought of the others on the beach who were crawling into their nylon tents in their wet gear, probably to have dinner on protein bars or else fight the rain and mosquitoes with their tiny back pack stove. I've been camping. Sailing is better.

I think the Catalina 34 is about as nice as the 36, unless you actually plan to use the stern cabin for more than storage. Cabin is pretty similar, but the cabin seems small in the 34. Anything 34 or above is going to seem like a palace compared to what you've been in.

G. J.
 
#9 ·
I went from a 1966 Pearson Triton (28 ft) to an '86 Catalina 34 this past fall. While I haven't had a chance to sail on the C34 yet the room down below is really impressive. I've seen ads for C34's that are older than 10 years, but are very well taken care of. And you can get them for a lot less than $100K. C36's too.

The first C34's (like mine) had deck stepped masts, then they made keel stepped masts an option (I think in '87) and a lot of the ones I've seen are keel stepped. Then at some point I think they went back to all deck stepped masts. You could still probably get one of those later ones for under $100K.
 
#10 ·
Interesting that the C34 has come up with a few of you. That was my first focus and still a contender. It was fading for me because I thought they were all keel stepped, but if I'm hearing correctly, there should be some deck stepped C34s out there? Is that true for the C36 too, anyone know?

I threw the under $100K out there so as not to miss any possibilities, but truth be told, I'd rather stay under $80K.
 
#13 ·
The MKII C 34s are deck stepped, the MKIs are keelstepped except the first few hull #s. The 36s are all keel stepped I believe.. which is too bad because I think overall the layout, and esp the galley, of the 36 trumps the 34 in all other areas.

With your 10 year age limit you'll be looking mainly at MkII versions.. on the 34 the primary advantages are the mast step and the larger cockpit/aft cabin and reduced exterior teak (usually drop boards only). An early to mid 2000s model should be well do-able at $100K or less.
 
#15 · (Edited)
I am a past measurer for the Catalina C34 International Owners Association so feel free to ask any specific questions you like. The C34 actually started out as a deck stepped mast. Went to keel stepped for a few years and then back to deck stepped. The boat had been in production for over twenty years (over 1,500 built) so there are many different combinations of engines etc. All the boats used the same (underwater) hull mold and both the “sugar scoops” and “classic sterns” conform to the same one design rule. On the west coast, boats newer than 2000 can still command a price in excess of $100k. I am sure that you can find an older MkII or Mk1½ boat easily within your price range. Understandably, the condition and what kind of gear added on will determine the ultimate price. My year 2000 boat draws 5’ 8” and has a standard keel. The shoal keel will get you to under 5’ but your ability to point is reduced by a good 5*. Both the C34 and 36 share practically all the same equipment (MkII boats) so it will be personal preference which one you will ultimately decide on. We all love our own boats dearly, but I can state a fact, that there isn’t a C36 I’ve come across that I couldn’t out sail. The C34IA.org is an excellent source of information as is the C36 owners association.
 
#16 ·
Thanks for the ideas!

Chuckles, I took a look at an Irwin 38 CC on YW--nice. I think that's a keel stepped mast tho. I'll take a look at the Morgan too.

Brian, pretty much every time I see a Bene First on YW in the mid-Atlantic, it's been raced, usually with nice deep draft too. I get the feeling that not many of these are used as performance cruisers. Maybe I haven't looked enough. But the Bene 331, 343 are on my list. Glad to hear you are happy with your 321, SawWhet. I'd love to hear more.

Steve77 and GeorgeB, I've spent a fair amount of time lurking around the C34 site. The level of support there is awesome and confidence inspiring --a big mark in the C34's favor. I guess I'll know more when I get us on some of these boats, but right now I'd favor the 34 over the 36 for the performance. We're already giving up something with the shoal keel.

I think in the end, we will still do more day sailing than cruising, or at least as much, so I'll always care about performance, that is, sailing feel, I guess. And of course I realize that makes for compromises.

BTW, Faster, you read my mind regarding exterior teak! I don't need it. I love aluminum toe rails and can't understand why Bene has gone back to teak toe rails and cabin top hand rails.
 
#17 ·
Hey,

I went through a very similar process in 2006. I had a Newport 28 that we (my family of 5) been day sailing and using on overnight trips. The 28 was great for day sails but was too small for anything more than 1 night. My budget was significantly less than yours (under $35K) but the rest was comparable. I ended up with an O'day 35, which has been great.

There are lots of boats out there that would meet your needs. Do you care more about performance or comfort? Do you want something that's great for day sailing and Ok for week long cruises or the other way around?

I love my 35' boat when we're on board for a long weekend. I don't love it so much when I am sanding the bottom, cleaning the hull, paying for winter storage, etc. Then I think 'why wasn't I happy with a 28' boat?'

If it's just the two of you, I would try real hard to stay under 35'. If you like convenience more than performance, the Beneteau Oceanus boats would be great. You could look at the 323, 331, 343, etc. Most have roller furling mains and all the comforts below. As previously mentioned the Catalina 34 would meet your needs. Most have traditional mains and will sail better than the Beneteaus. I'm surprised no one mentioned the Catalina 320. Those are pretty nice too. Lastly there are few Jenneau models that would work. I find them 'prettier' than the Beneteau boats.

Too bad you don't like hunter boats. The late model 33 sounds like it was designed for your requirements.

Good luck,
Barry
 
#19 ·
Do you care more about performance or comfort? Do you want something that's great for day sailing and Ok for week long cruises or the other way around?
I lean more toward the great for day sailing, OK for week long cruises. Of course that "OK" level is determined by my wife. :)

If it's just the two of you, I would try real hard to stay under 35'.
That's really the plan. I threw out the larger length to accommodate any older, less chunky boats someone may want to suggest.

Re: Beneteaus & Catalinas
Those are the Bene models I have in mind, though I would try hard to find one without the furling main. I'll look into the Cat 320.

A question to those who have sailed both: IYHO, is say the C34 shoal a better performer than say the B331 or B 343 shoal? IIRC, the Bene's are lighter--thought they might go better in light wind.
 
#18 ·
Tom,

Your post very much mirrors where the Admiral and I are. She is 2 years away from retirement. She loves our camping life and is not reluctant to "camp" on our I-28. We both look forward to enough space to stay aboard as long as it appeals. We, too are looking for next. I rebuilt our current boat and she wants to park it so we have it to return to when we tire of living aboard. We have the space. It isn't a priority for me but that is who the Admiral is. Lucky me.

I do understand the advantages of a performance cruiser. We are still open to other options. Age is not as critical for us. One boat we are starting to look more closely at is the Camper and Nicholson 35. ??? We may decide to purchase our boat in Europe, spend some time there and sail home. It is getting exciting. A couple of years isn't far off. No time to loose.

Down
 
#22 ·
arf,

Maybe also consider some of the more performance oriented boats like the Sabre 34/36 or The C&C 35 like we have or the CS36 like Mainesail has. a liitle slower but also nice the Tartan 34 or 37.

They are very comfortable as cruising boats but are a lttle more performance oriented tha Catalinas and Bennes.

They also have the traditional lines like your Peason had

The problem is the deck stepped mast. Is that a deal breaker. We have a virtually dry bilge as we have a dripless shaft.

Dave
 
#28 ·
Maybe also consider some of the more performance oriented boats like the Sabre 34/36 or The C&C 35 like we have or the CS36 like Mainesail has. a little slower but also nice the Tartan 34 or 37.
.
.
The problem is the deck stepped mast. Is that a deal breaker.
Good ones, Dave. I have stalked the CS on YW in the past because MaineSail liked his so much. Not many of them in this neck of the woods, but I see that some do have a shoal keel. And I've looked at C&Cs--I like a lot about them, but generally they're going to have only a quarter berth aft, true? Was hoping to take a couple of guests out with us.

But I'm bending on the KS vs. DS mast.
 
#24 ·
Hey,

I don't think there is any real significant advantage or disadvantage of deck stepped vs. keep stepped mast. Yes, a keel stepped mast is more likely to let rain water enter the boat, either through the mast or where the mast passes through the partners. However, a good mast boot will most most / all of the water. On the plus side, the keel stepped mast is probably stronger than deck stepped. It is also way easier to get the wiring from the mast into the boat (no connectors going through the deck). You don't need a compression post inside the boat.

My mast is keep stepped. I used to get a lot of water inside after a rain. Then I did a proper job of installed the mast boot and I also used some mast boot tape. Now I get very little (like a few drips) water inside after a rain storm.

Regarding some other boat suggestions, the Hunter Legend models (33.5, 35.5, 37.5) are pretty nice but they are getting old now. The last models were made in 1995 or so, so they are now approaching 20 years old. Personally, that doesn't bother me, but you stated you wanted boats that were more like 10 years old. Lastly, those boats do have a B+R rig with swept back spreaders. They still have a backstay and don't use the arch like newer models, but you still can't ease the main all the way out b/c it will hit the spreaders.

Barry
 
#25 ·
Lastly, those boats (Hunter Legends) do have a B+R rig with swept back spreaders. They still have a backstay and don't use the arch like newer models, but you still can't ease the main all the way out b/c it will hit the spreaders.

Barry
Just a point of clarification..

The rigs on the 33.5/35.5/37.5/40.5 Legend series are not really B&R rigs. B&R rigs are characterized primarily by the "X' pattern of shrouds and long, severely swept spreaders. The older h40 had a masthead version of the B&R also with a standard backstay..

The 89 - 95 Legends have regular uppers and lowers, slightly swept spreaders and a standard backstay. Once Hunter went to the "6" series (336, etc) the backstay disappeared, the spreader sweep got extreme and the B&R's "X" shrouds reappeared.

Swept spreaders can interfere with the main on a dead run but it's not all that big a deal (our boat is similar in that regard) We generally avoid running DDW in any case..
 
#29 ·
Not fair. Way too realistic! :D Especially considering the shape I was in the last time I washed/compounded/polished/waxed my 28 footer. But see, I was hoping I could avoid a couple of those middle steps if I go with a newer boat with less beat-upon gelcoat. And then boatyard fairies will scrape and paint the bottom, and ...
 
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#30 ·
As dear old Dad told me- "If you're even THINKING about a bigger boat, go and completely wash and wax the one you have first, and then decide how much bigger you really want." :))
OMG, I'd have to go back to my Lido 14 if required to wash and wax myself. It got to be like painting the Golden Gate Bridge, by the time I finished it was time to start again.
I have an '02 C320 and it would certainly suit the purposes of the OP, the door to the forepeak is ridiculous narrow as Faster said earlier.
 
#31 ·
I'm not sure that newer is the key to less beat up, just having good prior owners is. I've owned two boats that were about the same age (1984 Catalina 25 and 1986 Pearson 28-2). The Pearson was better loved in the last decade and the gelcoat is in way better condition. The Catalina is structurally really good (and has no leaks, I just checked the bilge with the new owner after a month of heavy rain here), but the gelcoat is more oxidized and picks up mildew a lot more easily.

It sounds like your 28-2 has required a lot more work than mine does. I've needed to rebed a couple of deck fittings, but overall it is in good shape and better shape than some newer boats that I've seen.

I wondered if you'd considered the bigger brothers to your current boat like a Pearson 36-2?

My 28-2 has a clogged mast drain (so clogged that fixing it will require taking the mast down), so I know how much water comes down the mast. I currently have it getting wicked down into a pot that I keep on the table next to the support post. In a week of heavy rain about half a cup gets into there. This doesn't seem like a huge amount to have come in and get pumped out of the bilge, but it does mean you wouldn't have a completely dry bilge.

The only larger boat that I've sailed is a Catalina 36. I was impressed with the space and layout, but can't really compare how it would sail compared to other large boats. It felt a lot bigger and heavier than the 28-2, but it's been a while.
 
#32 ·
The Pearson 36-2 probably would be a good fit .. decent cockpit and practical layout. Friends with one have had to redo all the ports - they had some real leakers. But it's a big, brawny boat with a fair bit of space and a decent aft cabin.

One of our 'must haves' last time around was two decent doubles without having to make/break a convertible dinette. This left a lot of boats off the list, but fortunately nowadays a decent aft double is pretty common.. the V berths are hit and miss.. some pushed so far forward there's not really room for two sets of feet (esp the late 80s 30-32 foot Beneteaus, for example)

The most common nowadays is the athwartship aft berth (Bene, Hunter and Catalina). For coastal cruising and few overnight passages I think that's fine. Ours is not and with some mid-berth leecloths could probably be a decent seaberth if necessary.
 
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#33 ·
I have no doubt that those 36-2 ports were set the same way as the 28-2 and they can be real leakers indeed. Last season I replaced two of them on the stbd side, and the rotted wood panel that surrounded them. That same leakage also caused some rot down in some more woodwork and in the sole as well. They're on my list!

I share your two decent doubles criterion. The newer production models do make this more likely since most seem to carry their width well aft.
 
#34 ·
I share your two decent doubles criterion. The newer production models do make this more likely since most seem to carry their width well aft.
Yes.. true.. Oddly, our boat is a mid 80s "IOR skinny butt" special and we actually have a very good aft double.. a rare find.
 
#35 ·
Possibly even rarer, our little (relatively) P28-2 has an aft double with room to stand with the door closed. You have to watch your footing though, as the standing area partly slopes up following the shape of hull.
 
#38 ·
That vessel whose pic you chose is kinda like the Bentley of boats. Faster than a America's cup boat, more luxurious than a hinkley. Plus, the tech editor for that yacht is the worlds best looking and smartest sailor.

You have earned very high reps in my book. Please make sure to mention this yacht to my fellow moderators at every opportunity. No matter their comments on public, secretly they all are jealous.

Brian
 
#39 ·
That vessel whose pic you chose is kinda like the Bentley of boats. Faster than a America's cup boat, more luxurious than a hinkley. Plus, the tech editor for that yacht is the worlds best looking and smartest sailor.

You have earned very high reps in my book. Please make sure to mention this yacht to my fellow moderators at every opportunity. No matter their comments on public, secretly they all are jealous.

Brian
Ok wait a second... I think there's something fishy going on here!

(just checked your profile. so ok seriously, that seems like pretty close to an ideal boat for me)
 
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