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post #94 of Old 05-10-2013
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Re: Is Sailing Sexist?

Originally Posted by wind_magic View Post
I don't know. A few people have mentioned this thought of men being more understanding, accommodating, or helping women overcome sexism in some way, and I don't think men can be as big a part of that as some might think.

DeniseO wrote, "Many men thankfully in recent years are aware of these issues and don't coddle women or try to protect or fix things for them. These men, also often recognize this unique dynamic and don't step down or feel emasculated when she's trying to gain the skills that come so easily to males because she's not had the opportunities he has had."

Would a man ever write "Many women thankfully in recent years are aware of these issues" ? I don't think so, I think a man would just stick his thumb in your eye and tell you to pound sand, even the idea of wanting to be accepted for who you are and have the world be a more accommodating place is more of a feminine idea than it is masculine (traditionally)

I guess my point is, can you ever really win a traditionally man's game using traditionally women's rules ?

DeniseO also wrote, "It's the simple fact the men take, push, lead, assume, direct, teach, advise across almost all areas of life, with impunity. When or if a woman steps out of the "mold" she's quickly set straight, told where she needs to be, called a bitch (often by other women) when the men are being called sir in the same position or situation." and I think that is a big part of it.

To that I would respond that as DeniseO also said, women are often the problem as much as men, but because of that I think it might be fair to say that women are ultimately the WHOLE problem, because is it really a man's responsibility to fix this ? Isn't that part of the problem, that a woman might wait for a man to fix everything ?

Even allowing a man to be in a position to decide that a woman will or won't be treated fairly is allowing him being in charge. Someone above (I forget who, and I paraphrase for effect) said that on his boat the women are encouraged to do this and that, to take the helm, etc ... isn't that the whole problem, no matter what she's doing, he's still the one in charge! He's still making the decisions, what if he woke up tomorrow and decided he didn't like how it was going and started making different decisions, or what if the man wasn't sexist 99.99% of the time but still was sexist the 0.01% of the time that it actually mattered ?

I'm not even sure where I'm going with this except that I don't think a woman's problem is a man when it comes to sexism, no matter how she might be treated. They call it "taking charge" because it is TAKEN, not because it is given, and men who put themselves in charge don't wait around for it they just do it, it is as much about independence and daring as anything.

Zeehag, DeniseO, and others get respect here from men and women alike, that's a simple fact. They are independent people and I don't think any man here would believe for a moment that their strings are being pulled by anyone. No man gave them that right to be independent, I'm sure they just woke up one day and took it, the same as anyone in command of their own boat, and that's how it works no matter who you are.
You said it much better than I could.. Not to call out Denise, but when I read her post my first impression was that it highlighted the inherent differences between men and women.

Stereotypes exist because they have a basis in fact and reality. The problem arises when you discriminate against an individual because of general stereotypes. It does not mean the general stereotypes are not accurate.
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