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My Horror Story

28K views 190 replies 52 participants last post by  wind_magic 
#1 ·
I am so anxious. I feel as though a panic attack could happen at any moment.. I have never had a panic attack. I was less anxious after fighting off a home intruder who came into my house with a pistol and tried to execute me in the back room by the closet when he told me to get on my knees... Its that bad.

It started when I attempted to move my 1979 27' AMF PY26 from the Ortega Yacht Club Marina In Jacksonville to New Smyrna Beach FL.

I left on a nice breezy day early in the morning. I cut out under the Ortega draw bridge and headed toward the I-95 interstate bride overpass.
First off I ran aground for going on the outside of the channel marker. I have to spend an hour trying to get off before I hail a boat to pull me off. My boat is a centerboard and as I try to lift the board in the cabin with all my might the shackle breaks on the post leaving the only way to pull up the centerboard being direct up vertical. Wasn't going to happen. Great start.
I sail about a few hundred yards from under the I-95 bridge and cannot make any more forward progress. I have never tired to sail this route and so did not realize the strength of the incoming tide through the bridge. I could make no headway. I decided to try to motor through. Well folks let me tell you that a 1979 YSM8 is worthless. Especially when it RUNS AWAY AT CATASTROPHIC MOMENTS.
So there I am direct under the bridge at 3000 RPM NOT MOVING. sitting still. I see other boats motoring through all around me, sailing included. I call a sail boat on channel 9 and find out the current is 1.5 knots at least and I will not make it through the bridge until the tide falls.
Great. So I sail a few more circles then decide to move over towards shore and drop anchor a few hours.
Eventually the tide changes and I raise anchor and try again. I aim for the middle passage under the bridge and start a tack so that I enter the bridge on the port and come out on the starboard. Well I start sailing under with motor and I am being pushed by a lee current towards the bridge wall. Im making it making it and I am coming out of the other side when a jib line catches on the very most aft light on the bridge walls side. Immediately I undo that jib lines bitter end knot so that the line rips out but then the spreaders catch and I round up into the bridge and begin banging on pilings.
Thank god a boat had came though right before me and I hailed them down. The immediately came to my aid and helped me hold the boat so I could climb on the bridge and untangle the rigging before backing out.
So now I am under the I-95 bridge in that little lagoon before the old railroad bridge and main street bridge.
I am already stressed to hell and beat to hell. I do not really remember why, perhaps it was still so early in the day I do not know, but I decided to proceed down river with the tide.
The route through the railroad bridge takes you right by the shore through the opening. You are supposed to sort of loop around the side of the lagoon and ride through the opening. Well apparently I did not angle my approach right. Also, again, I got to close to the bridge and the water current begin sucking me towards the bridge. I was guaranteed to slam on the bridge on my present course, though it would take a few minutes. My only scary ass option was to gybe directly into the bridge and hope the engine and wind would push me out of the currents. Let me freaking tell you people I came within 10 feet of the bridge after the gybe. So there I am water sucking me back and my 8 HP engine freaking gunning harder than I ever pushed it.. the boat was in immediate danger of being lost. I am motoring so hard core I make it about 75 feet off the bridge when without warning the engine runs away.
OMG.
Tiller left unattended, I jump into the cabin and cover the compression hole with my palm. Takes at least 15 seconds for the engine to die. I jump back on deck and have about 20 ft again.
God saved me.
He sent me a sustained gust of wind that allowed me to pull away from the current. He saved my boat. It was lost.
Man i feel so anxious writing this, my eye just misted.
So I make it away and attempt to drop anchor. the water is too deep. The anchor begins to drag back toward the bridge. I cannot pull the anchor up. My muscles give out. It takes every thing I have, I almost throw up from exertion.
I somehow get the anchor up, those it gets incredible tangled and is now useless if I need it again. I sail directly for the closest dock. I miss the first dock but make the second, slight collision.
I tie up for the night and collapse on the boat.
About an hour goes by a knock on the boat. Some guy tells me this is a private dock and I must move. I explain the situation and tell him I plan on leaving at first light, he doesn't care. Move or the cops are called and they will tow the boat, i cannot afford that.
I have no energy to sail. I tied three lines together and try to 'walk' the boat to the other dock climbing over the rocky shoreline. Of course the boat gets stuck. Bystanders help. Another hour passes. I have to stay in the water pushing the boat off rocks toward the other dock while another guy tows the line.
Eventually we make it and I tie up for the night and go to sleep.

I cannot stay here. Have to keep moving. So new day and I again head out this time making sure I follow the correct path to the bridge opening. I make it 2 times and each time I am lined up to go through, a train comes and they lower the bridge. The third time, 2 hours later, I start to go through and even on a low tide it seems like I am being pushed back. I motor out of the two bridges so that now I am by the Landing facing the main street bridge. The bridge operators tell me I am moving too slow for them to shut the bridge traffic, my mast height is 36, bridge clearance is 39', Ive got to run it or stay inside.
I tack towards the bridge and set a tack so that I cross under the bridge direct under center. It works, the top of my antenna bent under the bridge. Two feet or less to spare, less as I fall off the center.

I do make it and continue sailing two miles to a very nice anchorage behind a small island.
I have left the boat there 4 days. It is behind the little island right by the Mathews bridge. I am expected to sail this thing out of the river to st Augustine then to new Smyrna beach. I am freaking out because the engine is unreliable and too weak for snuff. The currents in the river constantly work against me as well as the wind. I also have no idea where to anchor once I leave this spot and head towards the beach. Im like 4-5 miles out and no idea where to stop or anchor or what. I have to plan my coming in to st aug on an incoming tide bc my engine will not motor through an outgoing tide.
Im really just feeling scared and anxious and so stressed out. This is not usually my character. I grew up in a very violent area and have been in dangerous situation numerous times without such feelings of panic as I feel now. I do not know what to do. I live on the boat and I have to make New Smyrna because thats where my family lives and my job is. I would love to just go down the ICW but with my engine motor sailing is not an option so how would I make it down? Everyone also tells me i would run aground at least once- that makes me feel no better.
Then the though of sailing offshore is not so bad until the afternoon thunderstorms and my lack of any jib besides a 98% hank on and one reefed main, doesn't have a second reefing point. Jib has no reefing point. Winds out of South, current out of south, so I would have to beat upwind the whole time. I feel safer in open water. If a storm was approaching I think I would bare poles it and float with the current bc motor sailing is not an option.

Basically guys I am feeling so stressed out and feel like I have no options because I have a time set to get to where I need to be.. about 10 days. I planned on going out to the boat in a few hours and attempting to sail down river to someplace near the beaches. Does anyone have recommendations?

This experience has been enough to make me want to not sail. I think the engine is the main culprit. I have put 2 grand into the engine and it stills runs away. nothing shore of a complete rebuild will fix the problem, though it will not add HP. It freaking almost kills me on a regular basis and as a single handler not having a reliable engine is terrible. Even if it worked its so weak its almost worthless besides getting in and out of a slip. Lawn mowers have more powerful engines then my 8000 pound boat does.

The boat is rigged strong and true, but the captain is not feeling up to snuff and really needs some support to make it through this. Right now this sucks. I feel like a coward and want to hide somewhere. The boat wont moves its self, and do not even think about telling me to hire a skipper on my budget.

Ive got 5 miles between me and the beaches and 80 miles to New Smryna. I have brand new north sail made sails but as I said, only one reef on the main and one 98% jib.

A part of me feels like this is not going to me for me, this stressful existence. I own the boat and love living on it but sailing the damn thing seems to always have a hitch. I think when I make New Smyrna I will just keep the boat moored and live on it until I sell it. I mean if I do go that route at least I did it. bought a boat, rebuilt a boat, learned to sail a boat, and sailed that trip-- that might be enough for me if this stressful existence continues.

Also, I feel like my knowledge of sailing is adequate. These experiences are causing me to have self-doubts EVEN THOUGH when emergencies have happened I have responded in the correct, and sometimes only fashion, that would save me and my boat. This is especially true when I made the decision to gybe in to the bridge and risk hitting it, or holding my course and "hoping for the best,' which would have resulted in catastrophe as I slid farther and farther. I do act, inaction is not my problem. This means I know what the right decisions to make are, but the boat will not cooperate.

Help me regain my confidence sailnet.
 
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#103 ·
Bristol:

Overfilled engine oil, ingenious. I'd have never thought of that. My guess is he has no serious engine issues, just something like your explanation or a messed up Governor or slipping throttle etc, nothing complicated.

Harborless: I think you ought to fix this yourself and here is why. It will make you feel so accomplished for doing so that that you will continue your trip. You almost need to make a "flow chart" with "yes" and "no" paths for figuring it out. But, really, this engine is simple compared to any auto engine.

Bristols idea makes sense because your choke REALLY SHOULD shut down the engine (except if its burning oil from too high oil). It did on my Yanmar 1GM and on my 2GM and on my friends 1HM Yanmar. The manual says it will and even calls it "engine stop"

Do you have a working tach? When it runs away, how high does it go?
What type of engine control panel do you have? Is it a Morse type with throttle lever and shift button below? If yer choke doesnt shut her down, somethings wrong.
 
#105 ·
I sailed in Hawaii for two years. That counts as the Pacific.

I'm not saying Florida doesn't have challenges. I considered sailing there this summer instead of here. But the 4 foot waves breaking into three knot current is really not what you face every time you leave the channel and even if you did it still doesn't seem that this fellow shouldn't go sailing. It's probably like the bridges and passes here. I'm sitting under one now typing(deception pass).

I'm just saying the poster has faxed some ough going but I'm trying to encourage him because I think he knows enough to sail in what I consider the best beginner sailing in this country. No reason to discourage him when he's already feeling overwhelmed and having near panic attacks. He doesn't need to hear how dangerous and scary it is he needs to know how he probably reacted smartly to a scary but maybe bad luck in some ways situation. Don't want him to think its all going to be like this because he probably has the next three months of perfect sailing and nothing going wrong.
 
#116 ·
I have a swing keel and sail on very shallow and unpredictably shifty Pamlico Sound. I always keep the keel down at least 6 inches so that when I do run aground I can easily get off just by lifting the keel. I don't have any other depth gauge. Lowered keel is a good early warning system. Never needed anybody to get me off a sand bar in that little boat.
 
#114 ·
There is a thing called sod's law, or Murphy's law. Namely if something can go wrong it will. With experience, good preparation and prudent seamanship it may happen less and is usually easily overcome and minor. However if there is a shortfall the sea will find you out sometimes in benign conditions but more likely not.
I think there is a difference between dinghy sailing and a bigger boat. Also between being a crew and the one responsible, indeed the only one available. A range of skills have to be learned.
Okay you have done a fair amount of work. Sadly that is inevitable on an older cheap boat. It can seem never-ending particularly when you have to learn new skills and are short on money. That's boats for you, particularly old cheap boats. They are expensive and time consuming.
If the motor had been reliable and it seems you knew it was not or did not know it was, you would have run into less trouble but some as I recall.
Other people's boats can be expensive to fix, especially when a thousand is a lot. Most marinas require insurance. Can you not get third party insurance which is cheaper and doesn't cover your boat, just others. A sudden unexpected gust when docking or refueling shorthanded can do it.
Some anxiety is common, and most people experience some more stressful moments earlier on in their sailing careers. So I wouldn't panic about that rather continue to focus on building competence not just confidence.
By the way you may well find it takes more than 2 days to cover 80 miles. It isn't a straight line and steering for more than 8 hours is a pain. Trying to meet a deadline is a common source of problems.
Good luck.
 
#118 ·
After the engine is fixed the only thing left that can break is the keel. Im serious. Every single piece of equipment would have been replaced including the centerboard. I mean everything, not blowing smoke, EVERYTHING.
So with the diesel fixed I will be able to maintain an accurate maintenance law to keep Murphy at a distance, atleast for a season or two.
 
#115 ·
Harborless
Kudos for posting your story. First of all this is why we have a forum (I do not post a lot but I read every single post, great wealth of knowledge).
You did a good job articulating what you did wrong, and what you did right. At the end of the day, you won.
We all have done silly stuff, trust me, that is part of learning. There is a thread somewhere of silly stuff we have all done and it is worthwhile reading.
Harborless was honest in his posting and is asking for help. He received great advice which he can take or not take but it has helped him with his plan.
I am anxious to see what the diesel doctor says. It has to be an issue with transmission slippage or the prop. Even a bunch of scum should not slow it up that much but of course it could.
You learnt a lot on this trip so good show.
Keep us up to date, this is very interesting as we all have been in positions like this. Rest, hydrate, think, relax and tackle it. Just another day in paradise.
This is why we come back for more, it aint perfect and things will go bump in the night.
 
#120 ·
I think you got the transmission right. The running away in neutral and not being able to shut her down with the choke almost clinches the too much oil thing as being right.
She starts and runs right but as the oil gets frothy she goes crazy and the smoke color changes to black indicating extreme rich mixture.
I've always been casual about too much oil and this has taught me a lot.
 
#121 ·
I know the area a little and the boat. One of my racing crew had a PY 26 and a GM10. The Yanmar 1 lung is a pretty simple engine and sufficient for the boat. You should be able to motor the boat, if it is operating efficiently, at 5.5 knots all day long. Your engine cruising RPM should be 25-2700 rpm.

Over filled oil reservoir is a distinct possibility. Did you use the proper oil or fluid for the Kanzaki transmission. Is the boat propped correctly? Electric fuel pump on this engine? If the tranny was older,the transmission might slip if the gears have a glazed surface. Probably not the issue.

Going down the ICW is a daylight only proposition. Conservatively, you should plan on 35-45 miles a day. 3 days from Jax to NSB is an easy ride.

Get the engine fixed, go for it, and have fun. Tell your relatives to treat you to a seafood lunch at Bostons to celebrate your arrival in New Smyrna Beach.
 
#122 ·
Remember: The most accurate time to check your diesel is when the engine is fully warmed up, ie after shutdown. Why? Diesel, like everything else, expands when it warms up. If you (like I used to do) fill the dipstick to the top mark when it's cold, then when it warms up, it expands and you've got too much diesel. That's why many dipsticks say "max" at the top. They mean it.

From what I've been reading, if your diesel is truly running away (which by your smoke definitions it may well be) your problems are almost certainly because there's too much oil in the oil pan.

Now is that too much lubricating oil because you fill it slightly too much?

Is it too much lubricating oil because you have the wrong dipstick (it happens)?

Or, as Bljones suggested, you have blown an internal seal because of the fuel pressure thingy and you have diesel mixed with your oil.



The third one is the easiest to diagnose. Does your oil smell like diesel? No? Good. Now, don't ever run your engine with the pressure pump running again. Bad idea for lots of reasons.

The first and second reasons can be diagnosed by completely emptying your oil pan and measuring what comes out. Measure what goes back in and be sure you have the right dipstick.

MedSailor

PS I was really there (where you are) once. I learned by doing it all myself and by jumping into the deep end. Nobody died, and I didn't break anything of anyone else's that I didn't fix. I turned out alright.... I think.
 
#123 ·
On a diesel with a low pressure pump which is just like a pump on a gasoline motor it has a diaphragm that can leak and allow fuel to flow directly into the oil pan

Then you have a high pressure pump putting out MUCHO PSI and its fairly unlikely your pushing anything past it with a primer bulb let alone cracking open and injector :)
 
#124 ·
Harb, activecaptain has notes about shoaling issues and buoy changes on the ICW - for example for the guys who grounded & holed their Moody at Ponce Inlet, there's about 4 shoaling areas noted, with details on which side to drive and a suggestion to call the Tow guys and follow their suggestions. The Moody was right on the draft edge of the shoaling for low-tide, and they should have known that.

But if you only draw 3' board up you should be fine. Just saying there's nothing like local knowledge, and activecaptain (and getting on your VHF) are good ways to get it.
 
#125 · (Edited)
Sailing is a mixture of art, science and luck. Percentages may vary. You control the first two, but Huey is in charge of the last.

The art can only be acquired by practice, practice, practice. An example of art is sailing on to a mooring and coming to a dead stop, into wind with the mooring right where you can pick it up. Or taking advantage of the tide to sail under a bridge, or reading the wind shifts and tacking at the right moment. Art is being able to read the weather in real time.
A lot of the science can be learned from others and books. Science is understanding stuff like corrosion in shackles that allow your centreboard system to fail just when you need it to work. And replacing those shackles on a regular basis whether they look as if they need it or not. Ditto, rigging. Science is poor performance from a fouled hull or prop. Science is using the right antifoul paint for your particular waters to regain the performance your boat is capable of producing. Science is understanding propeller cavitation and how to cure it (possibly the cause of your engine's weird behaviour?). Engine maintenance is mostly science (though getting the beast to start and run right can be an art).
Navigation used to be a mix of both of the above, especially when we relied on celestial, but with GPS these days it is pure science for most of us. We don't need to know HOW it works but we still need to be able to apply it.
Science is being able to read a synoptic chart and deduce the weather that will come soon to a place near you.
As for luck - if Huey decides to zap your mast with a lightning bolt and fry all your new electronic gizmos, too bad, so sad. The same Huey will make up for it next time you are out with sunny skies, fair winds and a favorable tide. Don't give up because you had a bad hair day; hit a bridge, ran aground and dragged anchor. We all have had bad days; we learn, we get better at the art and the science, curse at the bad luck and give thanks to whatever we believe in for the good luck.
 
#126 ·
While I agree with MedSailor's comment about too much oil in the pan may be the cause of the run away, I want to comment about my experience with the Perkins 4-108. I bought the boat new back in 1985 and the Perkins mechanic told me at the time to over fill the oil beyound the max reading mark on the dipstick. He showed me how much to overfill it by and explained that the max given was based on a level installation and since the boat installation had the engine at a tilt it was necassary to overfill that pan. For the past 25 plus years I've always overfilled that pan and come to think about it, I've motored into some pretty bad waves causing some pretty violent movement yet no run away which is pretty scary watching that youtube video of the runway.

One other comment is that apparently the best way to stop a runaway is by plugging up the air intake, however once that condition is apparent who would want to even get close to that engine fearing metal flying off. Or is the damage done internally and no risk of engine exploding outward? One other comment....It would seem that the air intake is limited by the diameter of the intake, etc. so should'nt the engine be designed to limit the runaway condition in the first place no matter how much fuel(oil) is there?
 
#127 ·
He showed me how much to overfill it by and explained that the max given was based on a level installation and since the boat installation had the engine at a tilt it was necassary to overfill that pan.
Don't take this as gospel. It depends on which end of the crankcase the dipstick is at.

On commercial installations, part of the sea trial procedure is to carefully measure everything and file marks in the dipsticks which come blank.

The critical thing is to avoid having the crank contact the surface of the oil. My engine is installed well over the Yanmar tilt specs and I have had some interesting adventures with oil foaming.

My experience with Yanmars makes me doubt that the runaway in this case is the result of too much oil. I would put my money on worn rings assuming we are getting an accurate report that the engine does not respond to closing the throttle.

A critical thing we don't know is if the breather hose leads directly into the intake. My 2QM20 has a nipple for the breather hose to connect to the low pressure point on the intake and it turns out that it needs that negative pressure on the crankcase to keep from blowing oil out the dipstick. I've blown a lot of oil through that hose without a runaway. I now have a liquid trap in the line, just in case.
 
#129 ·
All mtors have and oil capacity based on angle of installation

Even my 43 year old A4 which is mounted at 15 degrees (the Max Angle) has a rating of 3 quarts at that angle

If the motor was level it could be as high as 6 quarts which would turn into a foam bath on a 15 degree install
 
#131 ·
I will refrain from posting names but the regional director of a certain company has had a technician contact me. However, with this being memorial day weekend, work will not commence until next week. I will be on the boat during work and will make sure to snap a few pics and ask some smarty pants questions for those interested.
If the engine is unable to be fixed, a new one will be put it. The problem will be fixed once and for all.
I will report when a report is compiled.
 
#135 ·
Never make any important decisions early in the morning or late at night.
Try to have some fun and develop more balance. Yin and yang are always there, we just need to learn how to balance them better.
It is not that bad. :cool:
 
#134 ·
Through the blessing of family high up in the boating industry who have seen the work I have done and realize my financial constraints but wish my efforts to succeed. Ive put over 10K of personal money (student-serving tables) and over 300 hours of personal work. I started with a hammer and screw driver- Now I have a tool bag weighing over 75 pounds.

Ive inspected the TOPS of the keel bolts- how do you inspect anything further down without removing them? And I am not doing that.

10K after the cost of the boat. Im talking just refits.
 
#136 ·
Photo and image hosting, free photo galleries, photo editing

I am terrible at updating- this covers maybe 1/3 or even a 1/4 of whats been done. However, the pictures from where I bought the boat to the last pictures taken should give a pretty good idea the changes that have taken place. I cannot afford to hire someone to do the work- so it was all done by me except for what required a haul-out and rigger. (Seacocks all me- I didnt cutoff the mast or re-sheath it though- that was outsourced)
 
#139 ·
We were recently quoted $13k to have a new Betamarine 14 put in our boat, $8k for the motor and $5k in labor if it was a simple job. We won't do it because I'm not sure I can justify the expense on such an old boat, maybe you can.

I have an alert on Craigslist for 2GM20s and YSM8s set up. I often see used 2GM20s for sale around $2k-$3k, YSM8s usually go for $1200 or so depending on condition. I've called a few mechanics and found recently rebuilt motors in the same range.

You might also consider just sticking with an outboard...
 
#140 ·
We were recently quoted $13k to have a new Betamarine 14 put in our boat, $8k for the motor and $5k in labor if it was a simple job. We won't do it because I'm not sure I can justify the expense on such an old boat, maybe you can.

I have an alert on Craigslist for 2GM20s and YSM8s set up. I often see used 2GM20s for sale around $2k-$3k, YSM8s usually go for $1200 or so depending on condition. I've called a few mechanics and found recently rebuilt motors in the same range.

You might also consider just sticking with an outboard...
I would never allow my family member to pony up such a bill for a boat as old and worthless as mine. When say NEW engine, I dont mean 2013. I mean New USED. Old GSM or even maybe go to a YSM12 or something. I am sorry I gave the impression I would be willing to allow such a thing to occur I assure you my shame would prevent such a thing from ever taking place.
 
#150 ·
Nice attempt at moral relativism.

So are you equating your desire to have a boat with a woman's biological drive to have a child? I know a lot of women who would be very offended by that.
 
#153 ·
I've thought that same way myself. You can't fix everything. Would I really want to know every last thing that's wrong with my boat? Maybe if I did I wouldn't be out enjoying it.

Is it the law you have to have liability to sail? Not where I'm from. It's not a car. My top speed is 6 something. Or right now I'm fighting a current going 3. By you logic you would have to have instance and a survey to ride your bike.

It's a good analogy. I don't think there are too many barren women reading this. Maybe they would understand anyways.
 
#155 ·
....By you logic you would have to have instance and a survey to ride your bike......
Your bike is pretty unlikely to create an environmental liability for putting fuel oil into the water or lying a hull in a navigable waterway and incur up to thousands of dollars per day in fines, in some locales.

A bike is also not going to have an electrical fire (which is the cause of the vast majority of boat fires and most often due to improper owner wiring) that burns a half dozen boats around you with it.

I could go on with your boat breaking free or dragging into an expensive yacht, or losing control and sailing her into one, etc, etc.

Liability is real in the US. Maybe too real, but real, nevertheless.
 
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