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Know the rules!

9K views 57 replies 36 participants last post by  zz4gta 
#1 ·
Got cut off twice this past weekend by "sailors" not knowing the rules of right of way.

The first instance: I am close hauled on a starboard tack being approached by a 40+ Hinckley on a port tack. The captain of the Hinckley was looking right at us and when it became apparent he wasn't going to alter course. I finally came downwind and went behind him. I had some choice words for him as I went by, too bad his family was on board with him. Wife was reading a paper on the bow so I don't think they wanted to be bothered.

The second instance: I am under power being approached by a 40+ foot Beneteau from the port side also under power. I have the right of way but the Benneteau didn't seem to know that or care. Most "sailors" don't know this rule so we aimed for the Beneteau's stern. (I question the seafaring knowledge of anyone who buys a French production boat anyway)

Not only does the French boat not give way. But slows and drops anchor right in front of us, all the while the captain at the bow watching us and his admiral at the helm also watching us.

If your going to make a serious investment in a 40+ sailboat. Take a class!!
 
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#5 ·
These cases always get me. I think maybe 50% of the time it's pure arrogance. The other 50% of the time it's pure ignorance. I work with some pretty smart people, but the common view is that since they can drive a car - they think that operating a boat is absolutely nothing more than pushing the gas and steering. And they have money - so some of them end up with boats... I was approached a while ago by someone who is incredibly smart, but has less than zero knowledge of boats. To make it worse - he thinks he knows. His question for me.....?

"What boat should I buy? I want something that can fit 12-20 people that I can drive down to the Carolina's on a Friday night for the weekend and miss all the traffic." We live in Connecticut..... He was serious in asking the question.
 
#7 ·
These cases always get me. I think maybe 50% of the time it's pure arrogance. The other 50% of the time it's pure ignorance. I work with some pretty smart people, but the common view is that since they can drive a car - they think that operating a boat is absolutely nothing more than pushing the gas and steering. And they have money - so some of them end up with boats... I was approached a while ago by someone who is incredibly smart, but has less than zero knowledge of boats. To make it worse - he thinks he knows. His question for me.....?

"What boat should I buy? I want something that can fit 12-20 people that I can drive down to the Carolina's on a Friday night for the weekend and miss all the traffic." We live in Connecticut..... He was serious in asking the question.
I hope you recommended a CESNA to him haha.
 
#8 ·
Try not to let it bother you. There is nothing you can do about it so do as I do. Assume they have no clue and do your best to quietly avoid them. I know it is tough to no give them some choice words or hand signals(BTDT). You are out there to have fun.

Other sailors really do not bother me much. You can avoid them. What gets to me are the fast powerboats that come too close for comfort.
 
#10 ·
its not that the captain of the Hinkley did not know the rules of the road or because he had a bigger boat. he was trying to remember which side is starboard because he knew if he could remember that then he would know he was on port tack. bugs me too but it is part of sailing. when I sail I always figure the other boat has no clue. one day I was in the channel dousing the main, single handed and a 70' sailing day charter under power was approaching, as he steered around me he reminded me that he had the right a way because he was a big boat and a less maneuverable boat. I asked him if he wanted to trade because my boat was much easier to handle even with the sails laying all over the deck.
 
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#11 ·
Technically both those cases are within the rules. You were the stand-on boat but choose not to be by reacting first. According to the rules you first course of action should have been five short blasts and only after they still did nothing should you alter course. Not saying that you are wrong but if there was a collision and you altered course first then you are not necessarily in the right anymore.
 
#13 ·
Good point. But in both cases I didn't have time for the horn blasts as I was doing what was expected of me and very close. There is the "Last clear chance" rule so I altered course as I was the captain with the last chance to avoid the collision. Believe it or not in both cases had there been a collision there is a high probability that both captains would have been at fault. The captain that disregarded the rules and the captain that did not avoid the collision.
 
#12 ·
Sail/sail: starboard over port, leeward over windward

Sail/power: sail wins (unless power is *really* huge and/or hard to steer e.g. deep draft, restricted, etc and you should't be that close to him in the first place, what were you thinking?)

How hard was that??

I wonder if some of these 'close encounters of the stupid kind' are more about bad attitude than rules ignorance?

Or alcohol? say it ain't so...


then again, I have raced on boats whose booms say, in very large letters on the port side (only):

"WATCH OUT FOR STARBOARD TACKERS!!"

This has actually been helpful to me in the heat of the moment....;-)
 
#14 ·
Sail/sail: starboard over port, leeward over windward

Sail/power: sail wins (unless power is *really* huge and/or hard to steer e.g. deep draft, restricted, etc and you should't be that close to him in the first place, what were you thinking?)

How hard was that??

I wonder if some of these 'close encounters of the stupid kind' are more about bad attitude than rules ignorance?

Or alcohol? say it ain't so...

then again, I have raced on boats whose booms say, in very large letters on the port side (only):

"WATCH OUT FOR STARBOARD TACKERS!!"

This has actually been helpful to me in the heat of the moment....;-)
power/power boat approaching on starboard has the right of way. Boat approaching on port must give way
 
#15 ·
Whats worse is when the port police/CG decide to change the rules of the road. During the celebration of light fireworks in Vancouver I have had the port cops pull along side and tell me to use the other side (south side when leaving port) of the channel under the lions gate bridge so that boats pass starboard to starboard rather than port to port. I bet the freighters trying to enter the harbor really appreciated this to make no mention of those pleasure boats they hadnt told to use the wrong side (nothing on the radio).
The Harbor Operations manual states "All vessels are to keep to starboard of mid channel" within the First Narrows.
They simply create a situation where there is a higher likelihood of a problem by doing this. Idiots are everywhere. Keep a good watch and be safe.
 
#16 ·
andrewoliv:1050050 said:
power/power boat approaching on starboard has the right of way. Boat approaching on port must give way
Well, give way or gun it and swing to port in front of the other power boat. I mean jeez, if we went to starboard BEHIND the other boat, we wouldn't be FIRST. (sarcasm included) :eek:

But then again, I truly think this is how some people think.
 
#19 · (Edited)
And to think people think Beneteau owners are always looking for a chance to toot their own horns, now they want to toot your horn too LOL.

Just kidding guys, I have nothing against French boats, especially if someone wants to give me a free Beneteau Oceanis 58...

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
 

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#20 ·
The French don't get enough credit. They bailed us out of the Revolutionary War, make some pretty nice boats, and they make snails taste good.

I think that I know COLREGs fairly well. But sometimes out in the water it takes you a moment to calculate who is leeward, windward, bigger, smaller or French. I agree that there are some genuine ignoramuses out there ... but mostly it requires patience. A good rule of thumb is to keep a safe distance and assume no one knows what they are doing.
 
#42 ·
...sometimes out in the water it takes you a moment to calculate who is leeward, windward, bigger, smaller or French.... but mostly it requires patience. A good rule of thumb is to keep a safe distance and assume no one knows what they are doing.
Amen to that, David:D
 
#22 ·
I was on port last weekend and ducked by a boat on starboard with about 10 boat lengths clearance and both boats moving at a fair clip in good wind.

We'd tacked just previously, a line got snagged on a hatch - I have no idea why it was loose enough to snag. The hatch broke and we were just regaining headsail control as the other boat started to duck (we'd have been well clear ahead without the faschnaffle).

We weren't racing and while there was time for us to get out of the way still I can understand why the other boat took a cautious approach and I waved and hollered my apologies. With 5 non sailors and 3 sailors on board I'll admit I was happy to not have to tack again at that particular moment.

I'm a Beneteau sailor and writing this has made me feel cleaner.
 
#24 ·
You are correct. It does not specify a separate lookout or even that the lookout be a person but does specify that the lookout should be able to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision. So if you are the only one acting as a helm&lookout and in a collision it's not hard to argue that as a lookout you were not able to make a full appraisal of the situation since you were distracted with helm duty. The rules are deliberately not specific, but they try to make sure everyone is at fault.
 
#25 ·
I just came back from spending a week in San Diego. During the weekend I rented a Hobie Cat out in the Bay. Holy C#$p! There's maybe 4 resorts that rent out for their guests. Never seen anything like it. The only rule, was there are no rules.
 
#27 ·
sailing last weekend on the SF bay most people seemed to know the rules.

the only time it got tricky was that there were _a lot_ of races going on. they tend to have closer margins of safety than i do, but generally seem to be pretty aware.

i generally tried to stay away from the race courses, and even took a bit of a detour to allow a fleet of racers get through my intended course before i got there, but it got a little close sometimes.
 
#29 ·
Groggy has a good point. In crossing situations, some skippers react well before others do. I've been racing since I was nine. I might be fine, sailing on Port tack, and planning to miss your transom by a foot when we cross. You might think that we were too close for comfort, and alter course to pass a boatlength behind me instead. Is that my fault?

Perhaps hailing "Starboard" would help alert the other skipper to your presence, and get him thinking about telling you what he plans to do about the crossing. He may, of course, think he's going to pass in front of you, with no need for either of you to do anything. The may think it's obvious he's going to pass behind you, with no need for either of you to do anything then, either. He may also be wrong. That's why even the stand-on vessel has to pay attention.
 
#31 ·
Paul

And whats your plan if the other skipper panics and does and emergency tack at the last second? He's supposed to trust the safety of his family to you, who he's never met? Better to leave some room for comfort, I say.

But that is what they say - " I was going to pass behind you!"

To which I answer " You weren't doing a very good job of it!"
 
#32 ·
Paul

And whats your plan if the other skipper panics and does and emergency tack at the last second? He's supposed to trust the safety of his family to you, who he's never met? Better to leave some room for comfort, I say.

But that is what they say - " I was going to pass behind you!"

To which I answer " You weren't doing a very good job of it!"
New term for ramming "Passing Amidship" hehe
 
#33 ·
Hey,

I find this an interesting thread.

Where I sail there are a number of charter fishing boats that take ~50 people out for a few hours of fishing. The boats go all over the place, drop anchor for a few minutes, then up anchor and go somewhere else, anchor, etc. They motor at around 10 kts and don't seem to give a damn who else is near by. Just this last Tuesday I was sailing at around 5 kts, heading in a straight line. One of the fishing boats was on my starboard, motoring in a converging course. My wife noticed the boat and asked what my plans were. I stated that since we were sailing, we were the stand on vessel and obligated to hold our course. The fishing boat, as the give way vessel, must take early and substantial action to change course. This was all well and good but the fishing boat didn't change course. I could clearly see someone at the helm, but they didn't appear to be paying any attention to me.

When we were about 1 minute away from collision I altered course and went astern of the fishing boat. I didn't crash gybe, but it was large change of course and my sails luffed until the boat passed me.

What should I have done? I was paying careful attention and when it was apparent (to me) that the fishing vessel wasn't going to alter course I did. Should I have hailed him on the radio to ask his intentions? Should I have waited longer before altering course? Should I have sounded my horn 5 times? I find the thing annoying because there is LOTS of water and no reason to ever get within 100 yard of each other.

Of course, about 1 minute after I crossed his wake he dropped anchor.

Barry
 
#34 ·
Hey,

I find this an interesting thread.

Where I sail there are a number of charter fishing boats that take ~50 people out for a few hours of fishing. The boats go all over the place, drop anchor for a few minutes, then up anchor and go somewhere else, anchor, etc. They motor at around 10 kts and don't seem to give a damn who else is near by. Just this last Tuesday I was sailing at around 5 kts, heading in a straight line. One of the fishing boats was on my starboard, motoring in a converging course. My wife noticed the boat and asked what my plans were. I stated that since we were sailing, we were the stand on vessel and obligated to hold our course. The fishing boat, as the give way vessel, must take early and substantial action to change course. This was all well and good but the fishing boat didn't change course. I could clearly see someone at the helm, but they didn't appear to be paying any attention to me.

When we were about 1 minute away from collision I altered course and went astern of the fishing boat. I didn't crash gybe, but it was large change of course and my sails luffed until the boat passed me.

What should I have done? I was paying careful attention and when it was apparent (to me) that the fishing vessel wasn't going to alter course I did. Should I have hailed him on the radio to ask his intentions? Should I have waited longer before altering course? Should I have sounded my horn 5 times? I find the thing annoying because there is LOTS of water and no reason to ever get within 100 yard of each other.

Of course, about 1 minute after I crossed his wake he dropped anchor.

Barry
You could have done any of those things, and you could also have reported his hull number to the CG or Harbour Police, whoever is in charge of enforcement. If they get enough complaints before he rams someone they may have a few words with the operator of the vessel.
 
#36 · (Edited)
....
The second instance: I am under power being approached by a 40+ foot Beneteau from the port side also under power. I have the right of way but the Benneteau didn't seem to know that or care. Most "sailors" don't know this rule so we aimed for the Beneteau's stern. ...
FWIW, this maneuver violates rule Rule 17.c:
"A power-driven vessel which takes action in a crossing situation in accordance with subparagraph (a)(ii) of this Rule to avoid collision with another power-driven vessel shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, not alter course to port for a vessel on her own port side." I call this the Andrea Doria rule.

Sort of humorous given the point of your post. You gotta be a little careful when lecturing on the rules...
 
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