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how old is too old?

4K views 19 replies 16 participants last post by  mad_machine 
#1 ·
Hi everyone,

I want to start by promising you, I DID use the search tool which told me the word "old" didn't exist in a single thread on this forum, so since that's not working right, I also went through a few pages of backlog to see if I'm missing it, so I apologize since I'm almost SURE this is a double post, but I figure I might as well ask at this point, so disclaimers aside...

How old is too old to buy a boat?

I'm not talking about a classic wooden labor of love, but a fiberglass yacht to be used and which needs to be maintained by an individual.

I was looking at the Tartan 30, which seems like it would do everything I want, and it occurred to me that those boats are older than I am.

Obviously, it's going to vary based on the mfgr and how much they cared about putting together a boat that would last, but beyond that, is there a point at which the glass itself starts to become less trustworthy? Would you buy a boat from the 70s? the 60s?

If so, the idea of being able to pick up a boat for WELL under $20k seems pretty exciting to me. I know, of course, that the purchase price is never the end of the story, and there are always sails, rigging, engine issues (or replacement!) and all types of big issues, which is why, if I could find an older boat that was of solid construction, it seemed reasonable to find a well maintained boat at the high end of the price range for that particular type of boat, and spend less on bringing it up to where it's ready to go, rather than get a "fixer upper" and spend months and untold thousands in the boatyard trying to discover what the next thing to break is...

And the idea of spending hundreds of thousands on a new boat right now, while it would actually even be doable, would mean the entire purpose of the boat got thrown out with the cruising kitty. (and beside, I know enough people who've bought new boats to know that, like houses, new doesn't always mean trouble free either)

So... how old is too old? If you were looking for your first boat for extended semi-single-handed cruising, (read: I plan to bring people on for trips and almost never be single-handing, but I don't plan to have a partner in the venture) and had to do the "cruising kitty vs purchase price + outfitting" dance, what would you be looking at?

Thanks.

-- James
 
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#2 ·
#4 ·
I would venture to guess that the vast majority of fiberglass boats were built between 1960 and 1985...probably over 90% (I totally just pulled that number out of my butt) and I would also bet that the VAST majority of those boats are still floating...(another number out of my butt). Im sure others will jump in here with some actual facts, but Im not sure anyone know when "the glass itself starts to become less trustworthy" and I would venture to guess that time is not the determining factor.
 
#5 ·
The question can not be answered because your criteria are too broad.

Lots of complicated, old stuff is still in use. From cars to houses to airplanes to assorted machinery. The only question is what you are willing to spend to keep it that way.
 
#6 ·
With an older boat it's condition, not age, you have to worry about. There are plenty of boats from the 60s and 70s still going strong, though probably with little of the original equipment, if any. If you find an old boat that has been re-powered, has new rigging and sails and has been otherwise "upgraded" over the years, I see no reason to worry about age.
 
#7 ·
Thanks for joining in on The Dream! You are right about the search function. I usually just Google the subject I am looking for and include the word sailnet. Much better that way.

With the way the economy is and has been for so long, I am not sure I would consider a new boat purchase at this time! That new boat is going to depreciate in value fast.

There are thousands of old boats out there in great shape, you just need to narrow your search criteria to the kind of cruising you are going to be doing- coastal, Caribbean, Atlantic crossing, harbor queen?? The possibilities are endless!
 
#8 ·
James,

Don't let all of those "cautionary tales" links scare you away.
As with RV's, it is the same with boats- It's not the age, it's the maintenance.

My Pearson 30 is 41 years old, and rock-solid. I race her hard, too.
You seem to have a good grasp of sailboat-ownership fundamentals. You understand that the initial purchase is just the "price of admission".

My opinion, is that if you're spending around $10k, you should pay for a survey. At around $5k-ish, you may be ok doing your own "survey" with some experienced owner friends and a checklist.

The big items to investigate are:

Standing rigging
Engine (oil sample)
Transmission, shaft, cutlass bearing, prop
Rudder (full of water? Delaminating?)
Centerboard (if so equipped. Operates smoothly? lifting gear in good shape?)
Keel bolts (if so equipped)
Through-hulls and seacocks (not leaking, operate smoothly)
Steering gear (especially if wheel equipped) (Quadrant, cables, etc)
Deck (checking for water intrusion or delamination)
Electrical- (12v systems, instruments, nav lights)

There's a new fellow on this board, Abrahamx(sp?) who just bought a Tartan 30 and he seems quite happy with it. He's been fixing it up and having a good time.

Be not afraid! :)
 
#9 · (Edited)
i cruise a 1976 formosa with which i am doing a complete refit while under way.

boats dont get OLD, only people get old. even wooden classics are not old--they are wooden classics and antiques.



oh yeah..i paid 10k for this formosa and it was with excellent if not superior hydraulic autopilot and gps and radar and ......

BOATS do not get OLD. only people get OLD.
 
#10 ·
First, thanks to everyone, but especially manatee for the info. That's exactly what I was looking for.

Secondly, I'm learning about old quality vs new cheap. My friend brought a brand new Kaufman and Broad home. I bought a 1921 craftsman bungalo that has a recently new roof, central AC in 06, all new wiring and solar. Anyone want to guess which of us spends more on repairs? ;)

I'm still a little ways off, as I'm going to be selling the house before I buy the boat, and I'm going to be getting back on the water through a club or co-op and making sure I've got some actual passage-making experience before I sell the house. But the market's been rebounding much more quickly than I expected and my initial 10 year timeline looks like it got a lot shorter. =)

I fully intend to get a professional surveyor, and to have to spend 10s of thousands on the boat AFTER I purchase it, but as I've discovered with houses, and expect it will be with boats, it's much cheaper to let the previous guy get it as close to what I need as possible, and then come in and just do what's left, than to try to go ground up, especially as I am mechanically incompetent. =)
 
#11 · (Edited)
With old boats it's all about condition. I've done a lot snooping around regarding old Pearsons. I researched and found how the boats were equipped coming out of the factory. I managed to figure out how the boats were built and what the more common problems were. I bought every Don Casey book. Armed with this info i put only God knows how many miles on the car driving to see boats.

Here is what I concluded: Old boats are good boats! But this caveat; how much much time and money are you willing to spend bringing the boat back to spec? I looked at everything from turn key to basket cases. Some boats were better than others, but every boat needed something.

In the end i decided not to move forward in that direction. But it wasn't the age of the boats that led me to that decision. If i ever do buy another boat in the 30 plus foot range the Pearsons will get another solid look.

BTW, really like the Pearson 30!
 
#12 ·
My fiberglass boat had her 50th birthday this year. No structural problems, no leaks. Of course over the years she has had new rigging, new sails, new windows, new wiring, a major interior refit, repaint more than once and a new engine. But the hull and deck came up 'good as new and better than many much newer production boats' according to the last survey three years ago.

I will be at room temperature long before this boat is past use-by date.
 
#13 ·
"Too old" depends completely on the criteria one sets. When we were doing some intensive research and walking the boats, I eventually set 25 years as the oldest boat I would feel comfortable buying. Some might say 10 years, some 40 years. It all depends on what you want from the boat, like how much time do you want to spend sailing vs. how much time on maintenance. That's just one of the many criteria we eventually set for the age of a boat.
 
#14 ·
You may want to make a distinction between 'How old is the hull?' and 'How old is the stuff inside the hull?' -- the older hulls, made with woven roven & other actual fiberglass cloth & matting, are much better than the ones made by spraying glop out of a chopper gun.
 
#15 ·
while i was searching for my ultimate cruising boat, which i really do not own yet---but i will after these renovations are completed!!, i learned that when i set the criteria too rigid, i didnt find what i wanted. through many stages of boat ownership from my first owned by me sailboat in 1990 until i bought htis formosa in 2008, i learned boat building using a mold, gelcoat and mat and roving and resin, what happens and how to do it. i learned how hulls and decks connect and with what methods i should attach hull to deck in the boat i was building in 1991.
prior to this stage i had already learned wood boat building and maintenance, and i had a quick bout with a steel ketch....

i didnt know that excellent fiberglass boats were built in 1958 and 1955, solid to this day and forever---cal and victory are still sailing. jensen wenk in 1958 built a wonderful lil solid drop keel sloop with 24 ft length. awesome boat to this day. sail well and built like a brick sh....... .
funny how they do not blister...lol
the thing about pal-ing around with yacht builders is that one learns stuff never learned by those not pal-ing around with a yacht builder.
i would never buy a boat built in the 1980s. lamination methods were not yet perfected, as is seen by blistering and other problems.
different marques have different problems.
production line boats have different problems than do hand laid glass boats.
each marque is different.

OMG!!!!! never buy a formosa--rodlmao--i heard that so often i laugh to hear it now.

from 1990 to this formosa i went thru ownership of mebbe 15 boats inclusive of one that was a commissioned hand laid 42 ft omg yorktown---only because i could pick my rig and interior was designed by me--dont ask where is that boat--lol--it was delivered to me, but, wrong ex-husband and a chainsaw.
i did NOT want a FORMOSA. no way.never.

now i have, and actively cruise a formosa, i see what all you who say that are missing and envious of my having...
do not down a marque because folks all say words against that marque--you may learn what those voices are wishing they had instead of what they do have.....
when you place stringent parameters on what you want before sailing that particular marque--just because it is built in XXXX year, or after, you may be limiting yourself to choices that do not truly meet your requirements or desires.

learn how boats are built then decide what you want AFTER everything you can sail.
 
#20 ·
My classic plastic is 50 years old this year. the 20th Sea Sprite 23 built. Aside from gelcoat crazing and some questionable holes drilled into the 'glass, all it needs is for me to finish sanding 6 layers of paint off and applying my own and she will look like new.

Old boats (like mine) that date from the dawn of 'glass are often very overbuilt and often are un-cored, so you do not have to worry about soggy balsa embedded into the 'glass

Being uncored does mean they are a bit more flexable on deck and in the hull itself, but they often "bounce" back from hits rather than cracking
 
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