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Pros and cons of steel sailboats

909K views 5K replies 127 participants last post by  Faster 
#1 ·
I'm thinking about making the leap from fiberglass to steel for our next sailboat. We want to do some far flung cruising - maybe even circumnavigate. Our present boat is a 1977 Tartan 37 and while we love it - since we've had a child and possibly will have another one on the way it might get a bit small for a liveaboard situation.
This summer I drove a big, old steel tour boat around the finger lakes and started thinking that steel might be a good way to get my family around the big marble.
I've spent a week in the Caribbean on a glorious aluminium boat but have never sailed a steel one, so I have lots of questions about their performance as cruising boats?
What are some of the better designers to keep and eye out for?
How good are they in the hot climates?
Are there any extra dangers in lightning?
Thanks for any and all advice you can give.
 
#2,833 ·
Great answer Brent. Too the point and speaks to your needs.
For me, I have no interest in high latitude sailing been cold and scared often enough to fill my life time needs. Neither do I want inside steering as I've spent enough time inside and don't want to harness and dress every time I need to tend the boat.. I do want to be able to get out of the weather. So a hard dodger suffices. I like to sit at anchor under the dodger with my morning coffee even when it rains.I love the look and ease of a split rig.

material- solid fiber but lay up to include modern materials to increase impact resistance. Still like a solid layup as easier to fix should need arise. solid copper laid in as fish scale pattern. ( SSB ground and no bottom painting.)Synthetic core in decks is fine. NO exterior wood. Interior wood all solid. NO veneers. Blond teak is pretty forever.

watertight bulkheads forward to allow safety and storage of sails, fenders and other light stuff. watertight bulkhead aft in front of rudder posts
high aspect ,balance spade rudder as design and materials have moved along to the point they are as safe and strong as prior skeg hung. The gain in feel and efficiency is worth the expense. But would want top bearing/rudder tube above waterline.
Split rig- either double headed true schooner or ketch. Ability to run all sail controls from cockpit.
high aspect lifting keel. Might go with twin rudders to allow drying out on tripod of keel and rudders.
true sea berths- at least one either side in saloon, small double in quaterberth and island queen forward ( to have fun and snuggles with wife when at anchor)
c shaped galley to allow cooking without getting burnt or using straps. Deep, deep sinks. Two heads. separate shower room. work room.
hybrid propulsion on z drive placed just aft of keel. No need for thrusters. Prop can "free" spin and charge batteries Solar panels on top of hard dodger and Bimini with two wind generators deployed just below mainmast spreaders with ability to bring down to the deck in very high winds. Aft deck set up for integral life raft locker, strong points for JSD and storage of drogue and Hydrovane. Integral ladder to deck or sugar scoop with walk through. Accomendation for dinghy when passaging ( ?recess in fore deck or incorporated into stern).
Forced hot water heat. dehumidifier +/or AC with zones
"keeling cooling" for all engines incorporated into hull design to decrease parasitic drag but with excellent mufflers no open dry stacks
Number of hull piercing decreased by using manifolds and those present in sea chests or being standpipes.
As much natural light and ventilation as possible but no hull portlights ( still think they are ugly and dangerous)
Interior thought out so a place for everything and everything in its place becomes easy.
cockpit drains straight off stern, side decks/ house drain in to funnels in cockpit. Diversion of this to tank to allow fresh water collection.
Under 50' LOA to allow passage through Panama without additional assistance or fees.
my .02 cents
 
#2,836 ·
Out,

WHile I like the comments about your dream boat, I can not come up with a picture in my mind as to how the boat should look! You've rattled off all the what you want, but nothing to give a designer a picture other than a fixed dodger. You could end up with all that you want, but nothing as far as hull looks go! Maybe I am missing something.....

At least with Johns and my start, one has an idea on the general look of the hull, speed potential etc.

Marty
 
#2,837 · (Edited)
What would I like ? I would like a few of you all to look at my thread in learning to sail ( FJ open stern or transom ) Maybe Bob or PCP Brent.. Wish I saw that Wolf en ease from the full keel vs fin keel thread.
I like that you all do not agree. Worst thing is a bunch of yes men in a group you always know the answer

1st I would like a boat that floats regardless of how much water gets in . Etap had this going for them. The boat should be the life raft.
2nd I want a boat that is stable with in reason to be able to sail to the wind and have a little speed.
3nd I want a boat that you can get dry You can hand bail or pump it out. It will not be scuttled full of water. So many boats if they were on their side and the tide came in went down the companion way the boat is on the bottom. pooped or breached with an open companion way The boat is on the bottom.
A boat should float and be able to dry out.
4th what about all the leaks? thru hulls, chain plates, hatches , Deck to hull
5th my comfort if you have the first four this is going to be easy for the next 5 I am not going to sink I can be dry and get dry I am learning how to sail. Swimming is not sailing. Dry boats are the best boats.
Good Day, Lou
 
#2,840 ·
Always liked the look of the Murray Peterson schooners. Realize design of hull shapes has moved forward but would like to achieve that look. Would have a single house not split as in many of his designs. But retain dual companionways. Would have bow sprit easily retractable to decrease LOA when necessary. Would use variant of Bergstrum rig with carbon masts so no backstay on main mast. Sail design would appear close to gaff rig without dual halyards necessary.
Bob- maybe he does not have a "package" and that's why he could not reply. Woo, don't often hit below the belt but it was too good to let by.
 
#2,842 · (Edited)
Paulo- think you missed the point of the question. Their are very intelligent and experienced sailors on this thread. I've enjoyed their input greatly. You view things from what the market offers. I was curious as to what this select group of fellows sailors would want. For instance when I surveyed the offerings I choose Outbound. I'm happy with my choice and think of available offerings came closest to my heart's desires. If a practical schooner or ketch was offered with similar features depending on price and build quality I may have built that. I realize I'm one small insignificant person in this market so view your post as besides the point whereas Brent's spoke directly too the point.
 
#2,847 ·
Nobody said you were insignificant just that if you want to talk about WE, as meaning generic public, the success of the several brands that make that type of boat on the market is a better indicator, since they talk for dozens and sometimes hundreds of satisfied costumers.

Here you have a brand that have opted for a ketch configuration:




Probably bigger or more expensive than what you wanted but almost all if not all abandoned the Ketch configuration for boats smaller than 50ft, given today improvements in rigging easiness, smaller sails (due to lighter boats) and electric and hydraulic helps.

The Ketch configuration in most cases demands leaving the safety of the cockpit to take care of the sails while those on modern one mast configurations can be done entirely from the cockpit. For blue water cruising the most usual configuration is a cutter rig with a relatively small main and sometimes as much as three head-sails on furlers.

Regards

Paulo
 
#2,843 ·
I like the question that was posed by Outbound. It gets to the heart of something that often crosses my mind when I see or worse yet write, the word 'ideal' in the context of boats. Its seems like the term 'ideal' should almost always be accompanied by the questions, 'for whom?' and 'for what use?'. Outbound's query seems to go to the heart of that, and the responses have shown a very bright light on the how the 'for whom?' impacts the 'ideal' in ways that really surprised me after years of reading posts by some of the respondents.

Anyone who has read more than a handful of my my posts would probably admit that I am somewhat predictable on these questions, but here are my responses.
Day sailor: Yes
Coastal: Yes
Blue water: Probably
High latitude: Not a chance in hell

Still, would be a interesting discussion.
What material: Cold molded wood/ composite or higher tech FRP
What hull shape: See drawings
what appendages: See drawings
what size: 16000 lbs
what sail plan: Fractional sloop
what features:
In my opinion a coastal cruiser which is optimized to permit offshore passage making and so should offer the following traits:

Should be seakindly which means an easy motion. Seakindliness coming from long waterline relative to overall length, fine entry, minimal weight in the ends of the boat, moderate beam, Vee'd hull sections forward and elliptical hull sections (not too round and not too hard a bilge) from amidships aft, a low vertical center of gravity, a tall enough but light enough rig to slow roll without increasing roll angle dramatically.

Ideally should be robust and simple. Weight should not be expended on fancy interiors or excess weight in areas that are solely for show. The hull and deck should have small panel areas with reasonably close framing and bulkheads. Details should be simple and solid.

Should have an easily driven hull so that it can get by with smaller sails and a smaller sail inventory making it easier to handle across the wide range of wind and sea conditions that will be encountered. Sail plans and under water foils should be robust and efficient. I don't think that a skeg hung, or keel hung rudder is necessary, and in many ways I think that an outboard rudder makes more sense in terms being able to check and maintain it, and use a simplified self-steering.

I personally would want a fractional rigged sloop rig for its ease in adapting to changeable conditions. I would want a permanently affixed track for the storm trysail. I am of two minds on a removable stay for a storm sail, vs. one that goes up the foil with safety ties incorporated.

Sailing systems need to be robust, easily operated, suitable to short-handing and easy to maintain offshore. Here there needs to be a balance between having the tools to do the job efficiently vs. being overly complex and maintenance prone.

Electronics and the electrical system also need to be simple, and no more than necessary to get by. Here again there need to balance between having enough to do the job efficiently vs. being overly complex and maintenance prone. In my opinion, the boat needs to be operable without an electrical system should the worst happen.

The boat needs to be adequately burdensome to carry all of the consumables and spares that are required for distance voyaging. There needs to be solid, secure and low in the boat food storage lockers. Water tankage needs to be adequately large, with multiple and maintainable tanks. Other types of tankage and storage are less critical.

Ideally there should be complete access to the skind of hull everywhere in the boat.

Deck houses should be low and there should be solid foot and hand holds along the deck. There needs to be good ventilation, which can be secured from leakage when offshore; large portlights and hatches are a no-no.

There needs to be a way to secure ground tackle off the deck and to secure hawse pipes when offshore. There needs to be really great ground tackle and ground tackle handling gear.

There should be narrow passage ways in the cabin, with good foot holds and hand holds, so you are not thrown about. Galleys and heads should be small so you can brace yourself when in them. Refrigeration is less important than good dry storage. I want a dedicated shower.

I would want water tight compartments in the bow and stern, with the propshaft and rudder post within the aft compartment.

I would want about 15,000 to 17,000 Lbs of displacement.

A protected on deck 'watch station' would be important. I would not want a pilot house. A liferaft compartment should be an integral part of the design, as should a solid solution to store a dinghy.

I drafted the images below during the late Wolfenzee's ideal boat discussion as 'My version' if I had Wolf's displacement to work with. In reality, my ideal boat would be a foot or two longer and there would be a dedicated shower/ wet locker aft of the head. But this gives the general idea.







 
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#2,844 ·
Jeff- It's a beautiful craft. Just like none of the builders Paulo mentioned build a schooner, to my knowledge none have rudders in this size with rudders on gudgeons and pindles with a lifting keel. Looks like a sturdy craft that would be maintainable anywhere
 
#2,846 ·
Steel Hull, Composite Superstructure. Motorsailers

I'm thinking about making the leap from fiberglass to steel for our next sailboat. We want to do some far flung cruising - maybe even circumnavigate. Our present boat is a 1977 Tartan 37 and while we love it - since we've had a child and possibly will have another one on the way it might get a bit small for a liveaboard situation.
This summer I drove a big, old steel tour boat around the finger lakes and started thinking that steel might be a good way to get my family around the big marble.
I've spent a week in the Caribbean on a glorious aluminium boat but have never sailed a steel one, so I have lots of questions about their performance as cruising boats?

Thanks for any and all advice you can give.
I can see this resulted in a very long subject thread. Did you ever find a vessel CaptainQuiet?

Here are two motorsailer designs, one an Alden one a Rhodes, that I believe would make excellent round-the-world vessels.

...sorry, had to post web-links as forum sever wouldn't let me post images (would not let me post links either so I may not be back for awhile)?
Link
LINK

And I would love to explore building them with the newer 'frameless' steel hull methods, and poly honeycomb superstructure. You will find a bit more discussion of this building method in these 2 forum discussions:

Link
Link

I've also played a little bit with a couple of alternate rigs for these two.

Brian Eiland
RunningTideYachts
 
#2,848 ·
Oh I don't know Paulo
Was on the new amel. big boat split rig everything done from cockpit.
Live in N.E. in my old harbor ( Plymouth) there were a few schooners down to thirty five feet.
Have also seen Pinky schooners that size and even one in steel. Seen yawls down to 20 feet and the original production PSC was a yawl with a tiller.
I think you've made my point again. Production builders build a boat. If enough are sold they build more like it.
Sailors over time with different boats decide on features they would want if available. It's rare all those features are present in ANY production boat. They end up picking the one that comes closest or if they have the money give Bob a call.
Still think you are looking down at the surface of the water and I wanted to hear from folks looking up from the depths.
 
#2,851 ·
Jeff, from what I can tell, other than the styling, those drawings indicate a boat much like your Farr.

That big Amel looks a lot like it could have come from Bob's pen. :cool:
 
#2,853 · (Edited)
Jeff, from what I can tell, other than the styling, those drawings indicate a boat much like your Farr.
:
You are right, the boat that I drew (which I will call 'MV') has a lot in common with my Farr. After 12 years owning the Farr, I have tried to keep most of the things that I like about my Farr. But in comparing the two designs there are also significant differences. While they are roughly the same length on deck, the MV has 2 feet more waterline length, weights 3,500 lbs more, has less wetted surface, a finer entry, much more stability, 100 s.f. more sail area measured with its 100% foretriangle resulting in a slightly larger L/D, and it carries a larger assym chute. The Farr has its head forward and MV's is aft. MV has a nicer galley, and a more comfortable settee. MV has a large sail locker aft and carries nearly 3 times as much fuel and around the same amount of water. The MV has a place for one more battery, a hot water heater and a bigger holding tank, and the next size engine. Also unlike the Farr, MV has a lifting keel with a bulb, more draft when down, and an outboard rudder. MV would be cold-molded with a kevlar laminate sheathing.

In reality, I would probably like a boat 2-3 feet longer than either, somewhere around 40-41 feet, which had a slightly larger galley, a better nav station than on MV (Synergy actually has a better nav station than MV) and a dedicated shower.

But within my budget, and for my needs, 'Synergy' is about as good as I could find.

Jeff
 
#2,852 ·
Don't make me have to come down there Jon!

Out:
OK.
I sent Brent a bar of J.T. Liggett's hand made, non detergent shampoo. It is the only shampoo I have used for the last 7 years. It is made in Vermont by a client of mine who is a retired ad agenecy art director. He has made soap as a hobby since he was a kid. Now his soap products, J.T. Liggetts, are sold all over the world.

The key is that there is no detergent in this soap. This means that when you rinse your hair you can rinse it in less that a minute. This means that it does not strip your hair of its natural oils. This means that your hair will stay cleaner much longer, much longer.

For a live aboard this can mean a signifigant reduction in water needed to shower or shampoo. It smells good and one bar will last a long time. It is not cheap but it is a product that really works.

I figured Brent probably smells bad most of the time and because he spends so much time on the hook he could use a soap that helped him preserve his water. It really was not intended as a joke.

J.T. Liggetts has a web site. The thought of having to use another commercial shampoo terrifies me after using this soap for so long. You'd be doing yourself a big favor by trying it.
 
#2,876 ·
Don't make me have to come down there Jon!

Out:
OK.
I sent Brent a bar of J.T. Liggett's hand made, non detergent shampoo. It is the only shampoo I have used for the last 7 years. It is made in Vermont by a client of mine who is a retired ad agenecy art director. He has made soap as a hobby since he was a kid. Now his soap products, J.T. Liggetts, are sold all over the world.

The key is that there is no detergent in this soap. This means that when you rinse your hair you can rinse it in less that a minute. This means that it does not strip your hair of its natural oils. This means that your hair will stay cleaner much longer, much longer.

For a live aboard this can mean a signifigant reduction in water needed to shower or shampoo. It smells good and one bar will last a long time. It is not cheap but it is a product that really works.

I figured Brent probably smells bad most of the time and because he spends so much time on the hook he could use a soap that helped him preserve his water. It really was not intended as a joke.

J.T. Liggetts has a web site. The thought of having to use another commercial shampoo terrifies me after using this soap for so long. You'd be doing yourself a big favor by trying it.
They have recently been finding some major health problems with anti bacterial soaps with no net benefit in reducing bacteria.
Thanks Bob.
I told a lady here on Quadra, who makes soaps in may shapes, that if she made them in the shape of some politicians, people would buy more, just to be able to rub such faces in unmentionable places.
 
#2,854 · (Edited)
Brian- went to your web page. Fascinating concept and speaks to why the new Chris White and the old staysail schooners were so effective. ?Have you had much success in propagating this concept? Would think it would be equally effective on a monohull.
Bob- will get some. thanks for the heads up.
 
#2,857 ·
Brian- went to your web page. Fascinating concept and speaks to why the new Chris White and the old staysail schooners were so effective. ?Have you had much success in propagating this concept? Would think it would be equally effective on a monohull.
Are you addressing me, ....and my unusual rig? If so I have made quite of an attempt to promote the idea over the years with only a few similar rigs being built. When I get enough postings I'll be able to add some links and photos

I'm new to this forum and somehow did not get any notification that additional postings had been made to this subject thread??
(ah ha, I just found the 'notification' button)

Brian
RunningTideYachts
 
#2,856 ·
I know I am still new to sailnet and sailing That is why some of my thoughts my seem like they come from Mars. It is nice when I get someone to explain. I also love this Sailnet Community because It presents real sailors with up to date conversation and knowledge. I reed a few sailing mags and always have a book going but sailnet has multiple views at all times.
I like the idea of a single mast. K.I.S.S I think 32- 36 foot is about the biggest I could ever feel In control. If you get a rig much bigger would you start to need more high tech machinery. Winches that are electric. The Anchor on a boat bigger than this could not be man handled ? I see they single hand 60 foot of boat solo around the world These men and women very exceptional rare talented individuals ? Those boats are top of the line.
I am still on the idea a boat should not sink. In some ways it took a lot for me to understand how a wood boat sinks. I thought that a wood boat just broke up but now I know they go to the bottom like they are made of steel. The HMS Bounty underlines this.
Has any boat used the cockpit to nest the dingy ? I am not a fan of a dingy on davits. A big inflatable rib or a hard dingy on top the deck is not sleek. The wind pulls on them. They look like 5 gallon water jugs tied to the life lines Safety at sea could come up if the come lose. If it somehow was nested over the cabin roof and looked like part of the boat. I think I did see one large cruiser with a dingy garage. It might have been a Hans ?
I would also like the boom to be able to bring heavy items on to the boat. Maybe a way to use the spinnaker pole with a weight as a counter balance. Could The spinnaker pole or the boom be a mast for the dingy ?
Next thought I have seen some huge air filled fender/ bumpers so the whole side of a boat is keep away from the dock. I have also seen water ballast bags that look like these fenders. How big is the largest R.I.B ? Could these fender ballast bags be around your boat incorporated into the design to look like it belongs . We have life jackets that inflate. Sort of like a scuba BCD for a boat. This could make a boat that will not sink. You cold also tie a lot of 5 gal water jugs to life lines and get the same benefits . The current stuff is not much better looking than the jugs and old tires . Why should a boat with limited space need to consume space with stuff like dock fenders. Build better boats ?
Good day, Lou
 
#2,862 ·
Lou,

You are asking some interesting questions. I have been thinking of creating a thread which is intended to provide a place to discuss, "What about this idea?"'s I hope that you don't mind I would like to copy your post and post it as a start for that thread rather than add yet another topic to this thread.

Jeff
 
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#2,860 ·
Lou- I think you've asked the important and thoughtful questions and will try to give answer to the best of my limited ability.
unsinkable- if you talk with yards/insurance people most common reason place of sinking are at moorings and slips. Most common reasons are hull piercings ( through hulls, packing glands etc).If properly maintained usually avoidable. Failed anti siphon valves are also common cause and lastly lightening strikes. Even partial sinkings usually result in destruction of interior and electronics/mechanical systems so question of restoration/salvage is often questionable economically. Offshore cause of sinking often unknown unless souls aboard are saved. It seems common causes are vessel being overwhelmed ( pitchpoled or rolled) or suffering structural failure. So called "blue water" boats are usually much more expensive then coastal vessels the same size. Reason being primarily the labor involved in creating a vessel that will maintain structural integrity. Labor involved in securing all of both sides structural bulkheads and like practices are an example. That's why you see boats being constructed in both Chinas, Poland, the old Yugoslavia etc. In short places where skilled labor is cheaper. Earlier in this thread ETAP was mentioned. It was a Belgian company that made unsinkable sail boats using closed cell foam much like Boston Whaler. They went bankrupt. Long term cruisers find they need and want every inch they can find to squirrel away supplies and things. For instance the wife bought 3 porcelain Chinese gentlemen she found in a second hand shop in Annapolis. Wrap in bubble wrap and wedged in the space between the batteries and bulkhead they survived the trip home. Etaps because of the nature of construction can't have those "wasted spaces" where we snuggle stuff in to. In the past there was offered inflatable bags that attached to settees and bulkheads. They had the typical salt pills or halyards to allow C02 inflation. Once again troubles with concerns about expense, injury from inadvertent inflation and aesthetics cause them to never catch on. In short due to liveability, access to the inside of the hull, expense and need for interior volume. ETAP ( which made a great boat didn't sell. I looked at their 46 before building my current boat and thought highly of them but went with a well constructed vessel with forward watertight bulkhead.
Dinghies- I and many others simple use the spinnaker halyard to lift the inflatable on to the fore neck. Just need a hand to push it out so it doesn't hang up on the lifelines. No need to make it more complicated. The big reason Walker Bay inflatables are popular are they are offered with a transom that folds forward when deflated. The whole thing is flipped upside down while on the spin halyard. Then deflated and secured to grab rails of fore deck. Takes less than 10m and I can do it by myself in a pinch. Having dinghy on davits when coastal is a blessing. You sail faster and it takes just a few minute to deploy.
Fenders are made in a long rectangular shape that inflate/deflate easily. I forget the brand but you can google it. Never know when a fender may come in handy so use the Taylormade for now.
 
#2,861 · (Edited)
... That's why you see boats being constructed in both Chinas, Poland, the old Yugoslavia etc. In short places where skilled labor is cheaper. Earlier in this thread ETAP was mentioned. It was a Belgian company that made unsinkable sail boats using closed cell foam much like Boston Whaler. They went bankrupt. Long term cruisers find they need and want every inch they can find to squirrel away supplies and things. ...
I don't think that being unthinkable had to do with Etap bankruptcy. The space lost was not so much and that was a very interesting feature appreciated by sailors. They went bankrupt because their boats were considerable more expensive than the French and German ones, with very similar characteristics and the bonus of being unsinkable was not enough to justify that price difference. There are more unsinkable boats on the market, the Pogo for instance, among others (many cats).

But I agree with you that even if convenient it would not be a deal breaker for me but having waterproof bulkheads on the forward bow section and on the aft rudder section, seems very important to me. Rudder failure (or breakage on a collision) and the ingress of water by the rudder hole has been the cause of several lost boats.

Regards

Paulo
 
#2,863 ·
Jeff - That's a great idea. Seems to be a consensus that there are a host of interesting ideas from various folks. Be nice to have a thread where they are collected. Be even most pleasant if the major producers read that thread and it served as nidus for incorporation into new designs.
 
#2,865 ·
I can understand economics drive the market. Cost and the ability to sell the boat makes or breaks it.
The skipper and the crew are the most decisive factor in safety and success.
So far I have by the numbers followed the crowd and picked what others have considered good boats.
I have to offer my thanks and gratitude to the folks that are posting. I am not in large crowd of sailors where I live. The sailors are just a few souls. It will be a bitter sweet day when my long term plans leave us separated by so much land.. The internet is making it possible to reach out and gain knowledge and benefits that would take years to accumulate by other means. :)
Good day, Lou
 
#2,866 ·
...
So far I have by the numbers followed the crowd and picked what others have considered good boats.
... Lou
Lou, there are certainly bad boats even if it is harder to find them among the more recent ones, but there is not certainly one good boat for all.

I mean as you can see there are many different types of boasts, even in what regards cruising, and on each type there is the perfect boat for a given cruiser, except that we are talking about different types and styles of cruising and therefore very different boats.

The important thing is to understand the differences between the several types of boats, first in theory and then for real, sailing different types of boats. It is also fundamental to know what type of cruising you are interesting in making for being able to chose the more appropriated type of boat.

Certainly this forum can give you a lot of information and help but with that information you have to try yourself different types of boats to see what is really the one you are interested in, for the type of cruising you want to do and your lifestyle.

Regards

Paulo
 
#2,867 ·
Lou,

I would agree with Paulo, There is really not a best boat for anyone, unless you have someone like BP design it, and custom build it! Even then! your design will be pigeon holed into how you intend to use it. Look back a page or two, and see what Outbound, Sloop, Jeff and myself want in boats. NONE of them are the same. We each have a how we will use a boat, so want it to work for that reason. I'm mostly a daysailor/racer, with an occasional weekend, and maybe one week a year on the boat. I do not need nor want, 100+ gals of fuel and water on the boat. Frankly a 12 hr plus 10-20% reserve is plenty of fuel for how I use the boat. Even the current one with a 6-7 hr literally 7 gal tank is very usable for how I use the boat. when I need to motor 8-10 hrs, I take a 5 gal jerry can and fill half way to the destination. 20 gals of water lasts me the whole season! A single size 24 house battery has never been drained sailing, or on the hook etc!

So hence why builders have different styles types of boats etc. You need to figure out the how you may or will use the boat, get storage etc to meet those goals, and you then have a boat that is probably 90% perfect............

Marty
 
#2,870 · (Edited)
Ok Out, I will play your game:

Ten years ago I was still thinking that the right boat for me was one with about the same program that you see as the ideal for yourself, meaning a passagemaker for all kinds of weather, including cold climates and adapted to make a lot of sailing in the night and rain, during long passages.

Things had changed and I understood that if I wanted to keep my wife I would not be able to do that kind of sailing so the ideal boat had changed too, not to mention that I had more money then... but I still have the drawings that I never finished.

Anyway, after a very classical offshore boat (that I had already posted on this thread) I turned to a much faster and more polyvalent boat that had only in common with the last one to be an aluminium one. The drawings are 10 years and today the hull design would be different and maybe the overall design too but the principles would be about the same:

1- Aluminium very fast boat
2-A boat with two saloons, one smaller including a pilot house, where I and my wife could enjoy the scenery in cold days, another one bigger inside, down below adjacent to the galley also with a port view.
3- On the pilot house the settee would turn in a a good sea berth. Also there a good recliner seat with a big chart table with all instruments annexed and a joystick to be able to steer the boat from inside with a good all around view.
3- A big galley, and a good sea one.
4- Two good cabins and a big head with separated shower
5- a big interior storage space next to the galley.
6- Garage for the dinghy, dedicated space for the liferaft, 4 cockpit lockers, one big one, another smaller and to vertical to Stowe the fenders.
7- At least 600L of water and 400L of fuel
8- Variable draft with a lifting keel
9- Winches at easy reach to the wheel man and rigging adapted to solo sailing.
10-Retractable bowsprit.

Dimensions:

Hull lenght - 13.99m
Beam - 4.31m
Draft-1.20m/2.80m
Ballast - 4200kg
Displacement- 11 000 kg
SA upwind with jib - 115m2
SA downwind - 254m2

Some drawings:









 
#2,871 ·
Someday I might build a dingy out of fiberglass or aluminum. A blue water surf board, a 30knt dingy. :rolleyes: That is as far as I anticipate building a boat. I have looked at all the Glen L boats and they are nice but do not make me feel the crave. I have not found a production dingy that Is what I want.
You see I need two boats all the time.:D one small one bigger. I have a member in my club that kind of laughed because he was thinking I just need one boat. He however is also boat-aholic :laugher Found out he has Three in his yard and one in a slip in FL.
I think my final boat will be between 32-36 feet I already own ten foot smaller and this is my comfort zone right now. It is also to me as large as Cave run Lake can handle 22-24 feet. Some folks have larger boats on Cave Run Lake. It just seems to much for that lake, The main pool is just a mile and a half across. I hope to visit some other lakes by trailering my Catalina -22. Next I may charter, rent bigger ? Then move to an area that I can sail The boat that grow into.
Good day , Lou
 
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