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Got to Stop being Stupid

10K views 77 replies 36 participants last post by  smurphny 
#1 ·
Well I tried it. Quite stupidly I might add. However I am moving too quick. Allow me to once again put out my play by play to not only be ridiculed and called foolish but more importantly to stop another from risking the same fate.


I have been planning a solo overnight offshore trip for a few weeks now. NOAA has good forecast for Thurs to Friday all week with 15 knot winds low seas and 20% of rain.

Yesterday I woke up to a breezy morning. 'Great,' I think. I figured it should make for a more enjoyable trip to have steady winds and I do loathe luffing around out in light breezzes.

Skip all the provisioning and time passing. Jump to 330, 1 hour before departure. Well first I realized I have no offshore charts of the area i'll be sailing. :eek:pe, just coastal and ICW. So that put a wrench in my navigation of old plans. Secondly I notice the wind has picked up quite a bit. 20 knots steady with gust to 25 perhaps higher at the dock.

I stowe the dinghy on the dock with the surf board and prepare the boat even putting a reef in and testing it at the dock. Man the wind is stiff.

430 rolls around. West wind with inbound current ( not just slack). Lets skip the hilarious show of me lleaving the dock. Who ever invented dock slips for sailbiats with4 pilings in the slip before you even reach the dock is a sadist. Anywhoo, no other boats hit and no damage done. A very ugly departure however I assure you.

No problems all the way up the ICW to Ponce. I did notice the ICW was pretty choppy. Some water would spray my face in the cockpit from the plunging bow. Man this wind is stiff.. I should turn on NOAA.

Whats all this hazard talk? Small craft advisory what? Damn engine, cant hear great. Better call the Uncle. After a phone conversation and a checking of weather and Noaa websites all remains clear except forecast call for winds up to 25 with 30 possible Friday Morning. Wind out of the west by north west suppose to carry around to the north and a little north by east overnight into Friday.

Ive been feeling anxious since I put the reef in. I figured it was anxiousness about what I was planning to do but Anxiety and worry can feel suprisingly similar and at times I can be quite far from prudent which is no high mark in my log to be sure. I continue to motor up and reach the inlet. West wind had the inlet super smooth but man o man you should have seen what was on the otherside of the jetty wall. This is all on my phone but I managed2 pics and will upload later.

Sails still down (thank you lord) I begin to motor out of Ponce. Im looking as far to the horzon as possible and its breakers. Not white caps but big foaming tops of waves scattered about the horizon going East. Now this is where I should have sucked it up, said I gave it my best, and made a U turn with my tail between my legs on a course back for dock. However as I stated previous I was, and this is not light insult, being more than commonly stupid and I proceeded on.

It took one wave at least 6 but im going 7 + feet at the end of the jetty that took mmy broad ( i had to keep eastward until I passed the jetty wall and the end of the jetty has serious breaks on the north side) to let me know I had been very stupid and things were not a joke. Ive never been out on anyboat Bahamas, Marine Corps
Or otherwise that experienced a sea state like I was in. Rolling breakers with lulls for 75 meters or so after sets of 2 or 3 big ones. Wind 25+ steady gust higher. Wind on the beam and sails not even up yet. I set a course north north east making a tack 45 off the wind and waves catching them on quarters until the close to the 2nd red bouy. Enormous waves. Sky, water, sky, water. White knuckles, eyes scanning, avoiding worst spots, i really need to find a lull to turn around but I had to get distance off the jetty wall and those breakkers.

After 2 particular bad waves the second of which completely buried my bow and shuddered the entire rig I swung the tiller over and and 150 degree turned on a course east by south east now running. This was dangerous exceedingly. I even said out loud how stupid I was and now I didnt know if I was being even more moronic by attempting to come back into a treacherous inlet with foul seas. I did see that if I could reach the cover of the jetty wall it quikcly went to calm right behind it but I had good 1/4 mile or more to go.

I will if anything give credit to the skipper for his stick control. I assure you that my years of water and boat experience were invaluble during the next 10 minutes. Take them on the quarter turn north in the lulls, cover ground, next set rolls in, quarter on. Im making a 110 degree line course to the tip of the jetty wall close to the inside. Here is where I got knocked down.

I had 1 pr 2 scary waves.. i mean these were taller than the cabin top before they came and lifted me up and dropped me off sideways with barely the bow pointed corner in. Anyway I was at the spot. The spot where the jetty channel starts and the waves were breaking on the outside shoal. I see it coming before it ever hit. Biggest wave yet, even bigger than the first wave that hit when leaving out. I see it stacking and stacking. Its going to break. The wave broke on the larboard side of the boat and through its crest over me, the cockpit, inside the cabin, and down the gunwales. I was standing on the larboard side and was thrown clear over to the otherside of the cockpit and may have went over had I not been clipped in. The boat with not even sails set dropped down on its beam but the old girl righted quick and after the crest passed over we rolled up again.

I figured this last part out later. One more set of big waves to go. Not as big as last time, justttt inside the jetty wall so only had those off corner shooting in waves to contend with. Suddenly sput sput sput ehhhhhhhhhhhhhh. OMFG!!!! The engine died. The engine died right 30 feet off the end of the jetty inside with breakers rolling in behind. Sheet sheet sheet turn key start start START! Life. She stirs. Rumbles to almost sputters out again I throttle all the freaking way up to get gas going and then she rips it. Catches and load sets and boom now were off and a few seconds later I am safe and sound back behind the jetty in calm waters with an audience on shore thinking god knows what.
* I realized later that knockdown wave put the gas tank hard over no doubtadly uncovering the hole for the fuel. This allowed air into the ststem and accounts for the sputtering and slow start because I had no other problems before or after. Had the engine not started within 5 seconds I would have had to run up and raise the jib. With the wind I had it would have been no problem sailing in the inlet but the problem was where it died. I could have been hit broadside while trying to raise the head sail or worse got put on the shoal and rolled over by the breakers.

As it was I did raise sails and made the briskest run of this boat and mys life at 6.2 (per gps, never used knot stick) all the way down even through the drsw bridge. I made it back to dock at 810 with just enough light to float and kiss up nice in my slip like a pro compared to the fool I must have looked leaving with a cross wind and current.

So thats it. Another perilous adventure. Boat handeled the seas well but I would have not made it for 12 hours with conditions getting worse. As I type this in my phone its been raining since first light. 20% Noaa? Really? Geez. I should have never left the dock.

I know getting caught in that sort of weather is one thing, but seeking it out quite another. I will never allow impatience and inexperience to overrule my gut judgement again. I should have known when I put the reef in it was not the fay but id been having to put it off and put it off and all looked fine.. I seriously got lucky. Nothing broke, just lots of mess in the sole from the knockdown. I managed a picture while I was out but it does little justice unfortunately. If any saw the waves off daytona to canveral yesterday with the wind im sure they could attest.

Lesson is dont be stupid. I think its safe to play sailing solo like reefing the main. If you think you should do it, you should have already done it.
I.E. if you think you maybe shouldnt go out, you shouldnt.

Had I kept sailing I most likely would have lost the boat or myself once sails were raised. I could have only sailed relatively safe on a close reach taking the wavves on or right off the bow. Then I would have had big problems trying to get back with winds going up. I could have ran to st. Augastine but no promise the entrance would have been smoother and I would have needed a full day to motor back down the ICW.
Just should have never risked it. Could I have made it? If I was sailing Hawaii to the Marquesas I would have had no choice. Try or die. I shouldnt have tried it yesterday. Sailing up and down the ICW would have been the much better call. Live and learn. Thankfully I lived. Will post pics later in P.M.
will try again next week. Small craft advisory last until Sunday. Maybe next week will look better. Need to buy smaller headsail asap as well.
Harborless
 
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#3 ·
Gene worked for me for a few years. One summer he announced he was going to sail solo to Hawaii. Cool I said. Gene showed up back in Seattle well ahead of schedule and came to work. I asked him what happened. He said he got half way and decided he wasn't having fun so he turned around and sailed home.

I respected Gene for that.

Harborless, you had an advneture. Good on ya.
 
#4 ·
Also, about the sailing upwind part. The reason sailing downwind would have not been a good idea imo is because the waves had 5 to 6 second periods so were exceedinly steep and fast. One foul move or wave angle and suddenly the rudder is put hard over, you swing up to a broadside, and take the next roller right behind it hoping its not a roll over. Sailing deep seas the waves would not have been that close together or steep with short thickness. They would get steep but be like moving hills and so sailing on more courses would be doable without high risk. Yesterday upwind was the only choice because of how choppy the water was, short the period, high the wind, and most critically boat size. A 40 footer would have posted a much different message than a 27'.
 
#5 ·
Glad you're alright, Harborless--a great cautionary tale and a good read. But you can't be all that stupid since you recognize when you've done something stupid :) And you're certainly not the first sailor to let schedules and plans override their good sense. Next time will go better, I bet.
 
#6 ·
What do they say, the problem is that the exam comes before the lesson. Just chalk up to the never-ending series of lessons that is sailing.
 
#7 ·
Need to buy smaller headsail asap as well.
Harborless
NO! You need to buy nothing!

What you need to do is go back over everyone of your recent threads on here and READ what people (who have a lot of ocean experience) have said!

You have had a LOT of valuable written advice here that has gone in one eye and out BOTH!

Its good to see you got yourself out of danger :) and back in under control. Its good to see you are realising its not all Beer & Burgers 'out there' :)

Now, please go back and read stuff properly and realise those with lots of miles do know what we are talking about and not trying to stick a dick in your ear (Aussie slang for sticking a dick in your ear). :)

Then go sailing this weekend if the weather report says 10 to 15 knots (Did you see that? 10 to 15 knots)
I say that because whenever I see a grib file saying 15 knots its always 20. (Whenever it says 10 knots is always about 2!) And 20 knots you dont want to do one of those inlests at all... especially wind against tide.

:)

Conragts for getting back alive! :)

Mark
 
#9 ·
Well Thanks for the advice. I deserve worse however I put myself out publicly in order that I may recieve advice as well as at times a hopefully interesting story.

I think if you looked, as I have already, you will see that after previous disasters I have acceppted and made use of the gadvice given. No need to start a list here.

Im continuing my climb up. In a few years I could be there to put mine in your ear after some somethings not called Fosters.

OK no more attempts at defense from me just wanted to acknowledge the fact im not REALLY stupid (imo) i just sometimes do stupid, grant it yesterday rvery stupid, things. So perhaps i would be considered slightly stoopid! Preach it Collieman-
 
#8 · (Edited)
Sunday and Monday look good for a sail (at the moment) where you are

WindGURU: United States - Cocoa Beach

This might look tame... but its not, it just looks 'good'
COASTAL WATERS FROM FLAGLER BEACH TO VOLUSIA BREVARD COUNTY LINE
OUT 20 NM-

SATURDAY NIGHT
NORTHEAST WINDS 10 TO 15 KNOTS. SEAS 3 TO
5 FEET. A LIGHT CHOP ON THE INTRACOASTAL WATERS. SCATTERED
SHOWERS.

SUNDAY
NORTHEAST WINDS 10 TO 15 KNOTS. SEAS 3 TO 5 FEET. A
MODERATE CHOP ON THE INTRACOASTAL WATERS. CHANCE OF SHOWERS.

SUNDAY NIGHT
NORTHEAST WINDS 5 TO 10 KNOTS. SEAS 3 TO 4 FEET.
SLIGHT CHANCE OF SHOWERS.

MONDAY
NORTHEAST WINDS 5 TO 10 KNOTS. SEAS 3 TO 4 FEET. SLIGHT
CHANCE OF SHOWERS.
What a pain in the neck to find the Noaa forcast for that area... it keeps defaulting to south florida.
 
#10 · (Edited)
Wind predictions are almost always too low unless you are hearing the offshore forecasts. If you hear 20, stay put. Almost invariably a 20 knot forecast turns into an actual 30. More than that, with the NW element in the wind, it should have been a clue that it was going to blow like hell. In the morning, if the flag is straight out, just stay put. Getting a feel for weather patterns is the lesson. Boaters who know their area know when to go and when to hunker down. I'd suggest doing a little research into how to interpret weatherfax charts. Look at the 500mb and the surface forecast charts over time and see how they parallel with the actual weather. IMO, having a good grasp on weather patterns is essential to making decisions as to whether to set sail or not. NOAA has great learning tools on their website about how to read the charts.
http://www.srh.noaa.gov/jetstream/synoptic/synoptic_intro.htm

http://www.opc.ncep.noaa.gov/UGbegin.shtml
 
#13 ·
Could have been worse.

Just think a little further ahead next time. For instance, "Wow, I'm really struggling here, just at the dock. What's it doing 'out there'??"

My little cove is a pretty good hurricane hole. If the wind is stiff in there, then it's blowing hard out in the Bay for sure. This is coming from a guy with a 30 foot boat, who doesn't usually shy away from a strong breeze.
 
#14 · (Edited)
I figured this last part out later. One more set of big waves to go. Not as big as last time, justttt inside the jetty wall so only had those off corner shooting in waves to contend with. Suddenly sput sput sput ehhhhhhhhhhhhhh. OMFG!!!! The engine died. The engine died right 30 feet off the end of the jetty inside with breakers rolling in behind. Sheet sheet sheet turn key start start START! Life. She stirs. Rumbles to almost sputters out again I throttle all the freaking way up to get gas going and then she rips it. Catches and load sets and boom now were off and a few seconds later I am safe and sound back behind the jetty in calm waters with an audience on shore thinking god knows what.
* I realized later that knockdown wave put the gas tank hard over no doubtadly uncovering the hole for the fuel. This allowed air into the ststem and accounts for the sputtering and slow start because I had no other problems before or after. Had the engine not started within 5 seconds I would have had to run up and raise the jib. With the wind I had it would have been no problem sailing in the inlet but the problem was where it died. I could have been hit broadside while trying to raise the head sail or worse got put on the shoal and rolled over by the breakers.
You must have been rolling around like crazy out there, with no sail up? Next time, get some sail up. It will really stabilize the boat. Plus, in this case, losing the engine would not have been so critical. Inlets are dangerous, so always be thinking carefully about some emergency tactics.

You did learn one thing that many of us already know - if the engine is going to quit, it's always when you really need it.

You were really lucky. Just learn from these mistakes that you made. This experience is now recorded somewhere in your brain, and there will be this little voice in your head that you can listen to in the future.

Don't be discouraged. Just pick a better weather window, and give it another try. You can do it! Oh, and about the size of your boat....there are guys that sail the Single Handed Trans Pac on boats 24', and even smaller. Check out the video top right http://www.ronniesimpsonracing.com/?start=12

Ralph
 
#16 ·
A weather website I like is Passage Weather. But I dont look too close up! The weather where I am in the Caribbean comes from the east so I look at the whole North Atlantic chart so I can see stuff waaaaay to the east of me.

In mid-Florida area, at this time of year, I think - I'm not certain of your weather patterns - but I think they come off the Great Lakes, and crap down from the north thats formed up in the lakes. The only Passage Weather chart that seems to cover those are the full north atlanitc.

However Passage Weather only works off Grib files so its not absolutley accurate.
I also like satellite photos beacsue, for here at least, where theres cloud theres wind
Eastern U.S. Imagery - Satellite Services Division / Office of Satellite Data Processing and Distribution

Anyway, no one is calling anyone stupid. None of us are. And we all learn better when we dont think we are stupid! :)
 
#21 ·
Interesting comments and trip. First and foremost, NEVER, NEVER believe NOAA weather predictions! I've been on the water for more than a half-century and it has been my experience, especially offshore, to have a NOAA Marine Weather forecast that was even remotely close to being what the actual conditions were at the time. A good friend, who has more than 75 years experience offshore fishing put it best when he said if I relied on NOAA weather to determine whether or not to go fishing, I would have either starved to death or drowned.

Play it safe,

Gary :cool:
 
#22 ·
There are two types of sailors: those who admit feeling overwhelmed by the weather from time to time, and liars.
 
#23 ·
Yikes, but I second whomever pointed out that you've learned a ton about yourself and your boat. Hard to know where the line us unless you get close to it. Interesting thread in the last few days about how much wind is too much wind that this dovetails nicely with.
 
#24 ·
I feel your pain Harbourless. Had a similar tale from this summer. Long story so here's the coles notes. sitting in an anchorage with the wife behind an island on Georgian Bay. Winds blowing and its rolly. Wife feeling sea sick, insisting we can't stay. forecast say's wind to 15Knts. I'm looking at the waves and wind and I'm thinking it's worse than that, and that we should just stay and ride it out. My mast head twirly wind thing is not working so I don't really know. Use a wind app on my I-phone and its reading 13 to 20 Knots, but am not sure how accurate it is. Finally I decide I'm being a wimp, so off we go. Once were out of the shelter of the island it's bad, very bad. Roll out about 2/3 off the jib as were heading almost down wind ( wind about 20 degrees of port stern). As with you It wasn't really the wind but the waves. Not that big about 6ft or bigger, but steep, close together and breaking all over the place, just no way to avoid the breakers. Must have broached about four or five times. Luckily it was a short crossing about 1.5 hrs before we were in the lee of another Island. The whole way across the wife just kept repeating " get us across safely, get us across safely". All I could think was " Steve, your a colossal dumb a$$". Lesson learned, trust your own instincts, and don't let tales of glory on sailnet influence your instincts.
 
#44 ·
#30 · (Edited)
They want me to pay for downloading the video (its a surfer website). So instead here is the link. I am quite clear after the 7:30 minute mark in the Thursday Sept. 26 video starting at 5:50 p.m.
When you click on link it should take you direct tot he movie clip. If it does not and takes you to Ponce inlet live feed for today instead Select the rewind camera up to five days button and select Thursday. It will start at 7:00 a.m. then scroll the bar over until you reach 5:50 p.m.

Ponce Inlet HD Surf Video | SURFLINE.COM

The link takes you to Thursday but the video is for 7:00 a.m. so you will have to drop down to the horizontal scroll bar and move over to 5:50 though 6:10 is more action.

6:00 p.m. video is good. Shows good rough wave footage. Its amazing to see this. Hope you all enjoy!

Out
 
#31 · (Edited)
I would of had my main down to the second reef. If you don't have a second reef you should think about putting one in. You most def. should have had a hankerchief of main up and set to the right angle of wind. You should also think about roller furling and put just the smallest tiny triangle out. I have a tiny heavy headsail for these situations. With the right heavy little sails, you will find the boat will handle these conditions pretty well. It's all that violent motion with out sails up that makes it seem so much worse. That is also when the engine will quit. Either like it did from sucking air, or sludge loosend from the motion. They just don't like to get thrown around like that, hoses chafe, wires loosen etc. You have a sail boat designed to handle wind and ocean swells with it's sails up. I'm glad you stuck your nose out in those conditions. I hope you try it again better prepared. It's called a shake down. I spent 4 day's 100's of miles off shore last spring in 20 to 30 knots, running down 'em with a tiny little head sail and no main in my 28 footer. I sail every afternoon on Honduras in 25 knot winds when the trades pick up, it's all about putting just a little sail up and letting the boat do it's thing.
 
#32 · (Edited)
I have been trying to warn folks about the Gulfstream in northerly winds since I began posting on these sites. As a professional captain, sometimes you do not have the choice whether to go or not, unless you want to lose your job. I have been in the stream in unbelievable seas with winds of just 10 to 15 knots and in some cases it would have been life threatening had the vessels I was operating been a bit less well found; though it was never fun or desirable to be out there.
In one case, returning from Brazil on a small freighter, I pumped out the ballast (to lessen my depth for an entry into the Port at Riviera Beach) as I passed Miami. Soon after, a norther set in and within minutes one third of my ship was coming out of the water as she pounded into the seas. I had to reballast quickly or she might have broken her back!
Another vessel I operated was a 65' twin screw crew boat for the Naval Surface Weapons Center out of Port Everglades. We were the safety boat for the mother ship, which anchored in the stream to do secret navy stuff (we'll leave it at that, OK?) and we had to remain on station behind her in case anyone fell overboard from the anchored vessel. 25 to 40 knots of north winds in a north bound current created waves that completely hid the mother ship from my sight at times. The job quickly became one of survival and staying on station became a secondary consideration. There was nowhere to run to; I couldn't put her beam to those seas, not for a second! It lasted over 24 hours and it was worse than any of the few hurricanes I've experienced at sea.
Those waves were like breakers on a beach, towering above us, then we would plunge into a trough that was only half the length of the boat! Thankfully she was a steel boat, but the rails and gunnels were all bent afterwards and the hull was seriously scalloped forward.
Anchored at Great Stirrup waiting out a norther, I watched a 200' motor yacht pass, heading for Fla, thinking they were crazy. They were back and anchored near us within an hour!
So, once again I caution all of you who plan to sail the stream; do not venture forth if there is the slightest possibility of northerly winds, from slightly north of east or west, even fairly light ones. Just don't do it. Harborless was lucky because if you do get caught a bit offshore, the is no where to turn to; no better way to go, no easy way out or home. It becomes a matter of survival, trying to keep her head to seas, not broadside to those breakers created by wind against the current.
 
#33 ·
Had the engine not started within 5 seconds I would have had to run up and raise the jib. With the wind I had it would have been no problem sailing in the inlet but the problem was where it died.
Harbors' post is why I mentioned having some sail up. So, what does Harborless do if the engine doesn't re-start? I don't make it a habit of sailing into inlets, but many times, while coming in, I have thought...What if the diesel dies? Things will happen quickly.

For us, if it's too windy to put sails up, we don't leave our anchorage/mooring/slip. I always check multiple weather sources, and sometimes I get the right feeling. If not, we don't head out. And like Mark says, you need a longer range forecast, because at some point, you'll be coming back in. I think the "getting in" part, is the most important. From the little sailing we've done on the east coast, the tides and currents sure play a huge part of our planning, as does that particular inlet. Not only has the weather got to be right while leaving, planning for the other end is just as challenging (winds/tides).

Great thread, Harborless!

Ralph
 
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