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I'm thinking about making the leap from fiberglass to steel for our next sailboat. We want to do some far flung cruising - maybe even circumnavigate. Our present boat is a 1977 Tartan 37 and while we love it - since we've had a child and possibly will have another one on the way it might get a bit small for a liveaboard situation.
This summer I drove a big, old steel tour boat around the finger lakes and started thinking that steel might be a good way to get my family around the big marble.
I've spent a week in the Caribbean on a glorious aluminium boat but have never sailed a steel one, so I have lots of questions about their performance as cruising boats?
What are some of the better designers to keep and eye out for?
How good are they in the hot climates?
Are there any extra dangers in lightning?
Thanks for any and all advice you can give.
Uh,,,,you guys are a bit beyond my meager cooking abilities. I'm still not sure which side of the bratwurst goes down first.
But I'm ready for tonight. I'm giving the granite counter tops the BIG RESEAL today. Or at least that's what is says on the spray bottle. I'm dubious. But I'm doing it anyway. I want pristine counters when I attack the lamb shanks. These shanks are so big I think they came off Merino rams. My old Australian mum would have laughed at them, "Americans don't know what lamb is!"
jppp:
I frequently do lamb curry. I ate a lot of lamb curry growing up. I had it for breakfast yesterday. Honestly.
If you like vinegar in cooking, Filipino Pork or chicken Adobo. Insane. I knew who my wife would be after she fed me Pork Adobo on second date. Also a Loire Valley dish called Chicken Fricandeau uses red wine vinegar where wine would be. It has tarragon, chervil, thyme, parsley. Whole unpeeled cloves of garlic, tomato and a touch of cream at the end. Best with Legs & Thighs.
Two kinds of shanks out there. Lower Hind and foreshanks. Foreshanks much wider on the cut side and make a better presentation as they can be stood up with bone in the air. Ok, i'm gunna stop.
"Ah - but what can you knuckleheads do with a slab of elk meat that's been soaking in cooking oil for 4 years? Make that taste good and we'll talk. "
If it 10 weight motor oil the Elk will go right on the fire.If it heavier oil,old crank case oil from semi's you need to spray it down with kerosene or mineral spirits first, then start a blazing gas fire in a 50 gallon oil drum, then shoot your guns off till its done( when the fire goes out).After engorging your self on it you'll be ready for a good ole' fasion demolition derby!
Don't you know that a big dash of prik nam pla ( hot thai fish sauce) makes just about anything taste good . Even seal flipper. Never tried it on Lamb shank tho.
Len:
I have that sauce. But I think I'll save it for flipper pie. Tonight we will go with Patsy's home made red pepper jelly. Patsy has been giving it to me for years. I trade her Chinese tea.
Shank - do you remember Fatima and the Quivering Thigh ? Another R. Crumb creation. That's the boat Brent should crew on.
Bob I know you have no interest in designing in steel but you showed a heavy displacement full keeler of your design. Interested in your considered opinion about
At what size does steel start to come into its own and doesn't pay unacceptable performance price?
What general hull shapes would work? Slack bilged? Full keel? Low aspect fin?
What constraints does a by nature does a heavy boat place on the designer?
I very much respect your opinion. Therefore would respect your opinion of which of your peers design well in steel? I've thought Tanton, A. Pape and c. Witzholtz understood this material and drew some timeless designs.
I think Witholtz ,Tanton and Pape understood the material ,and had some hands on experience working with it. They would be a better source of info than someone who has no understanding of the material. I was hoping Tanton would participate more in this discussion. I guess the adolescent jeering scared him away. Dont blame him!
In smaller boats, the owners pack rat tendencies have a much bigger effect on total weight than hull material.
People with my 26 footer are happy with her performance .
Deeper deadrise lets you lower the floor in a small boat, lowering the freeboard, and thus lowering the centre of gravity. A Laurent Giles designed Vertue would possibly work well in steel ,given its displacement. A single chine version wouldn't differ much from the original shape.
One main drawback of a full keel in steel is the part of the keel under the engine is inaccessible for maintenance, and to far aft to take the weight of its being used as tankage. Its also much more difficult and time consuming to build the keel on. A low aspect fin keel with separate skeg ( used as an engine cooler) is easier to build and maintain, and thus more practical, altho most of my clients are going for twin keels these days( sure glad I did)
Christian:
The lamb shanks were marvelous.
I did polenta. Never did polenta before. I sauteed it in butter.
I took some of the sauce off the shanks and thickened it a bit with some flour and water.
I don't think I have ever had better lamb shanks, silky and tender.
Good news is I have enough for tomorrow's lamb stew.
Thanks you so much for walking me through that.
I was a hero tonight.
I believe the question was addressed to me Brent. Reading comprehenion problems again?
Or just that never ending quest for attention?
I think there are lots of nice steel designs around done by skilled designers with a good eye for lines. I would look at the entire body of a designer's work, not just his steel designs. Look for a designer who draws good boats that have handsome lines and a good performance track record. They are all just boats. I like Pape's work. Of course Whitholtz is an old favorite of mine (sat next to him at dinner one night), Yves -Marie is an old chum and I always admire his work. He knows what makes a boat go and he is a very good sailor. I don't believe he has ever built a steel boat though. But that doesn't bother me.
I was never a Colvin fan but I enjoyed looking ast his design work. It just didn't suit my taste. Find a designer with an overall good track record over a wide range of boats.
I think I'd draw the line around 35' for steel. You can always do a heavy boat that is shorter LOA but as some point the weight of the material is totally driving the design. I prefert to keep my D/L's under 300 when I can. If we are talking about boats with upper D/L's, above 260, I'd probably favor moderate deadrise and a low aspect ratio fin keel. My concern would be sufficient displ in the boat vs material weight so that I could get a good B/D and good stability.
I'll bet there are a lot of great German and Dutch designs available in steel.
I'd avoid the stock plan hacks who can't produce any examples of their design work.
Of the guys you mention I think Whitholtz would be my favorite. He never drew an ugly boat.
I like the world of design I live in Brent. I don't want yours. It does not appeal to me. I do not want to be known as the designer of ugly boats. My boats are designed for a different life style than yours. There are other life styles you know. I like beautiful, fast boats.
Brent:
You seem to work very hard at explaining how perfect your life is. I find that a bit like you are trying hard to convince yourself. You probably have little choice. We have heard how perfect everything thing is for you ad nauseum.
[I can do this all night. I'm just waiting for Brent to post one example of professional design work. It's going to be a very long wait.[/QUOTE]
Many pictures of my boats have already been posted on the earlier part of this discussion. You forgetting Bob? Getting that old folk's disease called Waldheimers disease? (In Germany, its when you get so old, you forget you were a NAZI when you were young.)
"Bob, what I am suggesting is your theory about my steel boats not being strong enough, is not one you have much confidence in."
There you go making up stuff again Brent. What theory is this? Another product of your reading comprehensions struggles? Show me the exact quote where I said that. I mean the exact quote. Or shut the Fuuk up. I get tired of your lies. I don't think any of us question that steel boats can be strong. That's pretty much a given. You need to back up your words with some facts before quoting me.
I'll just keep posting some great boats here when I respond. Because that is something you cannot do. Reality bites. I've seen some pics of your dog's breakfast boats and I would love to forget them They are aesthetic pollution. What I have never seen is evidence of your "design work".
Jon:
The U shaped bow sections came along well before Doug Peterson. Check out any of the Early, IOR boats from the mid 70's. It was pretty much standard well before GANBARE.
Nobody gives a rip about your "lifestyle". It's a BS lifestyle. I'll choose mine and you go right ahead and choose yours. But do not try and tell me your's is better. To do that is the argument of an ignorant man.
Tonight I am doing the left over lamb shanks as lamb shank stew as coached by Christian last night. I am doing his lentil recipe too. My buddy Steve is coming over. We will dine well and not eat meat preserved in cooking oil or anything gathered from the bottom of a dumpster. That is a promise.
I see BS is gone. His second shift at the 7-11 must be starting.
Note how BS was unable to produce the quotes he credited to me. It's a recurrent theme. He lies.
Jon, Jon, Jon, Jon, Jon:
BS has proven time and time over that he doesn't have to know anything about a subject or anyone to have an opinion. Classic case is his self admitted "problem with numbers". That's wonderful for a guy who makes the claim that he "designs yachts".
Jon, Jon, Jon, Jon, Jon:
BS has proven time and time over that he doesn't have to know anything about a subject or anyone to have an opinion. Classic case is his self admitted "problem with numbers". That's wonderful for a guy who makes the claim that he "designs yachts".
But he is funny.
Not wanting to "geek out" here, but is this the Legendary Bob Perry who designed the Valiant 40?
Wow! I can't believe it....for 12 years I worked with a fellow in Minneapolis that talked my ear off about the Valiants on Lake Texoma....Beautiful boats, had the pleasure of touring one once in Saint Martin. Wish there was one in my future!
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