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Old 10-28-2013
JonEisberg JonEisberg is offline
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Re: Sailing, safety, & size

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
That's just bad design.

Regarding the reliability of the Trintella, probably that's why they went bankrupt while HR continues to grow.

Look I am not saying that a coach is not more reliable than a car or that if you manage to keep it simple you will get more reliability. What I am saying is that some systems made life easy for sailors and allow them to sail faster and safer boats, bigger boats. They are an advantage not a disadvantage.

A genoa furling system is less reliable that an old clip on sail on stay. Even if not frequent they can jam and broke. The same thing with an anchor winch. Or an electric autopilot. Nobody questions today the advantages they bring over the inconvenients.

That's the kind of thing I am saying. Regarding boats over 40ft I would say the electric winches and furlers have reached the same kind of acceptance on the market. They have many advantages and a great reliability allowing older people to keep sailing and a smaller crew. Wireless commands for the winches (anchor and sail ones) and to the auto pilot have become increasingly popular and reliable. They have been developed on the solo racing circuit and have become a big asset there as they are for cruising.

All these systems can be operated manually as a back up, so there is not a difference regarding them to be automatic in what regards reliability, only advantages. The same with lateral thrusters. If you have a malfunction you can still operate the boat has if they were not there.

Again, a coach is more reliable than a car and a car hugely more complex but you can believe it that with time a sailboat will be more like a car and less like a coach in what regards simplicity and reliability just because a car is a lot more comfortable than a coach and faster (bigger boats being sailed by couples).

Regards

Paulo
Paulo, I really don't disagree with any of your points, they're certainly valid in terms of allowing older or less experienced or fit couples to sail bigger and bigger boats... I simply think that's not necessarily a good thing... I see all the time, people out there in boats that in my opinion are way beyond their ability to manage physically, especially if some of these sailhandling systems go down... And yes, the loss of something like a bow thruster should not necessarily spell doom, and yet I see people today who really are incapable of docking without them, or of getting off a dock when pinned against it by the breeze, without such assistance...

For me, the essence of Seamanship is basically the constant posing of the question "What IF...?" What happens if we don't arrive a X before nightfall, what happens if I don't attend to the bit of chafe I'm seeing on that sheet, and so on... So, I look at that sleek, elegant mainsheet on that HR that disappears into the boom, and I wonder "What IF...?"





Here's how H-R describes the setup:

"The mainsheet system only has one single visible line. There is a hydraulic cylinder and line purchase hidden inside the boom. The hydraulic vang is very powerful."

Hmmm, HIDDEN INSIDE THE BOOM??? Seriously? Well, I'm sure it works nicely, certainly gives the boat a sleek and uncluttered look, but I sure don't like the sound of such a system, maybe a few years down the road...

Now, perhaps Selden has made the provision for inspection or servicing such an arrangement very convenient... Still, I don't like this modern trend towards hiding lines and other critical gear... "Out of Sight, out of Mind..." Any hydraulic cylinder will begin to leak eventually, will the first indication of the mainsheet failing on such a boat be a stain on the teak decking beneath the gooseneck? If that system develops a problem offshore in a blow, what then? How easy do you suppose it will be for an older couple to deal with servicing a large hydraulic ram (which often requires highly specialized tools and presses that can realistically only be done in a shop ashore) that is hidden inside the boom?

Again, perhaps it's just me, and I'm the only delivery skipper out there who has ever had the misfortune of having this sort of gadgetry go tits up... But, I'm guessing maybe not... :-)

I'll admit, my perspective on much of this stuff is different from most... In the delivery business, it's very common for me to be running brokerage boats that have sat unused for an extended period, or might not have seen the best of maintenance recently... It's one thing when these complex arrangements are new, or are being 'exercised' routinely... But when such boats sit unused in Florida for a couple of years before being sold, it can be a whole different ballgame, and simplicity rules the day... I really have to wonder about the longevity of much of this stuff, many years on down the road... The original owner will have long moved onto something newer and more slick, but the owner of boats relying upon such complexity 20 years down the road are likely to find themselves in a situation of a car owner who drives their cars basically until they die, and are eventually plagued with the failure of things like power windows, with no means of opening them manually, and so on...

No need to ask me how I know this... :-)

Last edited by JonEisberg; 10-28-2013 at 11:45 AM.
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