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"Free boat" seaworthiness

25K views 250 replies 36 participants last post by  captain jack 
#1 ·
hi folks. I have a big question but first, some background. I've been sailing for 17 years. I taught myself to sail on a 9' dinghy and I still sail her the most. she's convenient and fun. anyhow, I also own a holiday 20. it's a rock stable boat, when compared to my dinghy, and I've never even come close to worrying about a capsize. although, I must be honest, I've faced a lot worse situations in that dinghy than the 20. really crazy stuff, especially since I can't swim. lol.

now, the question. I am about to get a j24 for free. yep. free. it's in good functional shape. brand new sails. only needs a bit of trim work, really. the only thing is it's covered in mud and it doesn't come with a trailer. I have to move it immediately, if i'm to get it, so I have to see if I can find an affordable marina. I don't know what else to do. anyhow, my question:

when I first found out about this boat, I didn't know what it was. the guy only told me it was a keel boat and "24' Chesapeake". now, I thought he might have been telling me a model. cheapeake. searched the web over. found two possibilities. anyhow, at that size and full keel I figured light cruiser. found out tonight it's a j24 and got a pic of it. I will put the pic on here for shock value. lol.

anyhow, i'd like to use the boat for day sailing and light cruising; weekends or over night. everyone knows what a j24 is but I've never sailed one. so, I was searching the web and I found some disturbing stuff. I read a lot about them being prone to capsize and sinking. I've also heard that they have a bit of lee helm. I figured a keel boat would be more stable than my holidays 20, which is a center boarder.

I intend to sail her from back river, in the Chesapeake bay. I was wondering if I could get input from any who have sailed them about their sailing qualities. obviously, i'm looking for something stable for cruiser type use. I don't care about racing. I just love to sail.

so, are they that unseaworthy? are there any suggestions to make one more seaworthy? I don't mind some moderate modifications but I have a shoestring budget. that has to be kept in mind.

if I can get a place to keep her, I am going to take her. free boats don't happen every day...at least not to me. but, if she won't suit my purpose, i'll fix her up and try to sell her to afford a boat that does. too bad it couldn't be a nordica20, halman20, or flicka. that would have been perfect. but never look a gift horse in the mouth.

thanks in advance.
 
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#5 ·
re: "Free boat" seaworthiness

Agree... that's NOT a J 24, someone's having you on.. Bad angle and not a good shot, but it looks more like an older 'flush deck' cal to me, maybe 23/24/25 in that range. The sunken forward deck is a bit odd so I'm not even sure about that.

But definitely NOT a J-24. The only reason J 24s sank was when they were pushed very hard downwind with the spinnaker up, and broached.. unfortunately the boat didn't float with the companionway above water, and they down flooded and sank quite quickly. But it was quite rare, and only when pressed hard.

all of which is moot, that's no J 24... did I mention that?? ;) ;)
 
#6 · (Edited)
re: "Free boat" seaworthiness

ok. well. that is interesting. I know of j-24s but don't know them, if you know what I mean. is that a California 24? looks like that would make this a 70s boat? what I read, so far, looks promising, if you are right.
 
#7 · (Edited)
re: "Free boat" seaworthiness

I will have to try to find the HIN when I look at the boat, tomorrow. that might shed some light on it. looking at pictures of the cal 24 and 25, I don't think this is it. the forward isn't actually sunken, on this boat. it is flat then steps up to the cabin top. nope. looking closer, I see what you mean about that. apparently all the cals, at leas tin that size range, had port lights. this boat has none....well, that can be seen.
 
#9 · (Edited)
re: "Free boat" seaworthiness

I've seen one of these boats as a kid and I cannot remember the model.
It's about as far from a J/24 as you can get...
I am thinking late 60s early 70s model boat.
Here's a J/24, see the difference? Hint... look at the flush deck, and low topsides, a rounded sloping deck.


Far be it from me to discourage you though... but a "Free Boat" is like a "Free Lunch." There is NO such thing.
 
#18 ·
re: "Free boat" seaworthiness

I've seen one of these boats as a kid and I cannot remember the model.
It's about as far from a J/24 as you can get...
I am thinking late 60s early 70s model boat.
Here's a J/24, see the difference? Hint... look at the flush deck, and low topsides, a rounded sloping deck.


Far be it from me to discourage you though... but a "Free Boat" is like a "Free Lunch." There is NO such thing.
you saw one as a kid? even if you can not remember the model, is there anything you remember that you can tell me about them?
 
#10 ·
re: "Free boat" seaworthiness

I agree with other posters, this is not a J24. Take a look on the transom and see if there is a 12 character code molded in. Usually in the upper starboard but not always on older boats. This code is the HIN/MIC (Hull identification number/Manufacturers identification code). the first three characters identify the builder.

Go to this page on the USCG website and plug in those first three characters to find out. Every boat built in the US was required to have one of these codes after 1971 (maybe it was 74'. can't remember)
 
#16 · (Edited)
re: "Free boat" seaworthiness

I believe you guys that it's not a j-24. after the first person said that, I started comparing pictures. the question is, what is it? and I am going to write down the HIN when I go to see it, today. but it would be nice to have some idea of what I am going to see.

the story is this:

"The boat was a bank tell auctioned. It has been in the water about 4-5
months at my aunts house and pier. She allowed it to be there, however
neighbors complained because it consistently sets in front of pier
verses the slip or boat lift. When the hard rain came a month who the
boat had a lot of water on the inside and tide wad out so ly was in the
mud. I pumped the water out and if is floating at pier but very muddy.
It needs work. Has new sails. It had small outboard but doesn't work. I
need to find title. The boat has to be moved ASAP do my aunt stops
calling me."

yeah. that's hard to read. I didn't write it. he did. anyone ever watch "hold fast"? you can watch it on YouTube. it's pretty cool. anyhow, the guy narrating it claims that there are a lot of abandoned boats at marinas, and just out there, all over. people who couldn't pay for their slips or whatever. he says these boats often go for a song.

now, i'm not expecting a perfect boat for free, but if it's functionally sound, and it can be fixed up to make it "pretty", it's worth checking into for the price of free. a lot of these older boats aren't worth a ton in great shape. I imagine, being stuck with one that needs work, as winter approaches, isn't conducive for making profit.

heck, I bought my holiday20 for 800 bucks. it was in great shape. the guy had just bought a catalina 22 for 300. I had been going to check on that one, actually, but apparently, he got there before me. lol. anyhow, the guy didn't need two boats so he had to sell the holiday. all that took place in November. no one buys boats in November so he got his boat for 300 and I sold me the one he needed to move for 800.

so, I will admit, i'm not sure what he means by bank tell but i'm thinking he got this boat, not worth a ton in good shape, that needed a little work. work he didn't do or maybe couldn't do. and he didn't take appropriate steps the keep rain water out. it's on back river, not sure where there yet, which has shallow areas. during low tide, it sounds like it touched bottom and tipped over, taking on water and getting that stem to stern mud bath. now, he has a boat that, while previously not worth much, will be impossible to sell ( as is ) and he has to move it. so, what do you do? it's become a problem for him so he offers to give it away. lots of people let cars and things go to someone willing to remove them. why not boats?

anyhow, I realize it's likely to be a lot of work, but a free boat is worth looking at. I've known guys who fell into impossibly great deals on motorcycles and cars. I have never been one of those guys. maybe this is my chance to be one of those guys and i'd be silly not to even consider it.

if anyone can look at that picture and tell me what it is, i'll be much obliged. I am supposed to be seeing it, today, at 5pm.
 
#19 ·
re: "Free boat" seaworthiness

yeah. that's hard to read. I didn't write it. he did. anyone ever watch "hold fast"? you can watch it on YouTube. it's pretty cool. anyhow, the guy narrating it claims that there are a lot of abandoned boats at marinas, and just out there, all over. people who couldn't pay for their slips or whatever. he says these boats often go for a song.
He's right, down here there are a lot of abandoned boats in yards and marinas. The problem is they are often in really bad shape, otherwise owners or yards would have sold them. They've usually sat so long that they need substantial work, structural and otherwise.

The question you have to ask is, "is this boat worth the effort?". Even if it's free, you can expect to put several thousand dollars into it, probably more than you'd pay to buy one in good shape. If it's a high quality build boat, the end result may be worth having, but if it's not, you are just throwing your money away. You have to decide if the quality of the finished boat is worth the investment.

For example, I recently saw a NorSea 27 abandoned in a yard with no rig and no hardware, I figure probably $30k in improvements along with a lot of personal time to work on the boat. The end result, IMO, would be worth it. OTOH there was an abandoned Hunter that had the rig, and was in one piece, but probably wasn't worth the few thousand it would take to get seaworthy again.

Only you can make the decision on what to do, you have to decide if the investment is worth it. My personal opinion is that J-24s are a dime a dozen and you could probably buy one in better shape with the money you'd invest fixing this one up. They are cool boats, but not worth the time and money it would take. That's my opinion, it's up to you to decide.
 
#20 ·
re: "Free boat" seaworthiness

I have 2 "free" boats. Which is a lie, because both have cost me a fair amount of money. The biggest issue besides all the work, is can you even get legal ownership of this boat? Next, is the boat complete? Some items may be impossible to find for an old boat. Unless it were a really popular old boat with a huge following like Catalina's for example. The fact that you will need to find someplace to pay to store it is a deal breaker for me. Both of my "free" boats sit on trailers for free, and I can work on them in my backyard if I want to. Being realistic, are you willing to spend more to fix this boat up than it is worth? Do you have the tools and equipment to repair this boat yourself? Do you enjoy fixing things? Lots of things to think about...
 
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#22 ·
re: "Free boat" seaworthiness

I have 2 "free" boats. Which is a lie, because both have cost me a fair amount of money. The biggest issue besides all the work, is can you even get legal ownership of this boat? Next, is the boat complete? Some items may be impossible to find for an old boat. Unless it were a really popular old boat with a huge following like Catalina's for example. The fact that you will need to find someplace to pay to store it is a deal breaker for me. Both of my "free" boats sit on trailers for free, and I can work on them in my backyard if I want to. Being realistic, are you willing to spend more to fix this boat up than it is worth? Do you have the tools and equipment to repair this boat yourself? Do you enjoy fixing things? Lots of things to think about...
all very good points. nothing, in life, is free. that's just the truth. you may not be paying a hooker's fee but, if you are having sex, you paid for it, one way or the other. know what I mean?

I do have the tools and skills. I have worked almost all trades in construction, to some degree, all of my life. I built my own chopper, in my mom's driveway; fabricating 80% of the parts from raw materials and modifying another 10% of the bought parts. I didn't chop an existing bike. there simply wasn't one, when I started. I did extensive modification to my 9' dinghy, including designing and making the sail and all the spars and rudder and converting it from dagger board to long shallow keel.

having the skills isn't a problem. time is a worse problem, as is money. but the biggest problem is a place to keep it. if I am lucky, maybe I can afford a spot at a marina and acquire a trailer. I haven't had a chance to check marina costs, although I have an idea of a place. it's too bad i'm not more social. I might know someone, down there, with dock space behind their house, if I was. but I don't.

I was thinking about checking on the cost to have it hauled and keep it on the dry as I get it back into shape. but all that remains to be seen, at this point. but, as you guys point out, that will all go into figuring out if I will take it. he supposedly has the title. so, I can check with the DLLR to see if I can get it free and clear. if I can't, I certainly won't take it. no point in bothering.

I have work to do on my holiday20. it just needs cleaning, but I have to find a way, at my mother's house ( where I keep it ), to remove it from the trailer to weld the trailer, where rust has hurt it. it's been sitting for some time.

worse comes to worse, this boat is on the water, not an hour from it on an unusable trailer. If it's not hopeless, I could clean it up and sail it, now, while I fix my other boat's trailer, then sell it cheap or give it away, in better shape than I found it. people deserve a second chance. why not boats?
 
#23 ·
re: "Free boat" seaworthiness

one thing I will say, I don't totally trust this guy. he has been elusive, since the beginning. he wouldn't tell me what it is. I figure he doesn't know. he still hasn't given me the address. he is waiting for the last minute. I can understand that, I guess. I saw the add on craigslist. he doesn't know me and it's at his aunt's house. I might be wary about having some stranger just show up, at her house, too. but still...I am going to be really wary of him and make sure everything is legit.
 
#30 ·
re: "Free boat" seaworthiness

one thing I will say, I don't totally trust this guy. he has been elusive, since the beginning. he wouldn't tell me what it is. I figure he doesn't know. he still hasn't given me the address. he is waiting for the last minute. I can understand that, I guess. I saw the add on craigslist. he doesn't know me and it's at his aunt's house. I might be wary about having some stranger just show up, at her house, too. but still...I am going to be really wary of him and make sure everything is legit.
Sorry.... based on what we've seen/read here, I'd save myself the trip...
 
#24 · (Edited)
re: "Free boat" seaworthiness

Sounds like you at least have an idea and a tentative plan, can it be done? Yes:







This represents approximately $750 in repairs to boat and trailer and probably 100+ hours of my time, but I love working on things!
 
#25 ·
re: "Free boat" seaworthiness

hey. thanks for the support. it's a crazy question but is that at the sailboat launch at lake Marburg, codorus state park? it looks like it.
 
#26 ·
re: "Free boat" seaworthiness

in fact....that boat looks familiar. I may have spoken to you, before. either earlier this year or last fall. that's a nice boat. it's cool that you saved it from a fate worse than death. sailboats should be sailing, not rotting away....well, not that fiberglass actually rots lol
 
#28 ·
re: "Free boat" seaworthiness

No, I haven't been down that way. I frequent Spruce Run reservoir in NJ and Lake Nockamixon in Pa with the Compac 16. The Starwind 22 in my avatar was also free, but has required more work and $$$. I've been working on it off and on for a year now with an expected launch date of next spring. I am setting it up for long family weekend trips on the Chesapeake. I could make money on the Compac if I sell it, the Starwind I will probably spend just about what it's worth fixing it up how I want it, but I'm going a little crazy on it... This is of course not putting any value on my time invested, but restoring/modifying things is my hobby/stress relief, so it keeps me from strangling my family and coworkers!
 
#31 ·
re: "Free boat" seaworthiness

No, I haven't been down that way. I frequent Spruce Run reservoir in NJ and Lake Nockamixon in Pa with the Compac 16. The Starwind 22 in my avatar was also free, but has required more work and $$$. I've been working on it off and on for a year now with an expected launch date of next spring. I am setting it up for long family weekend trips on the Chesapeake. I could make money on the Compac if I sell it, the Starwind I will probably spend just about what it's worth fixing it up how I want it, but I'm going a little crazy on it... This is of course not putting any value on my time invested, but restoring/modifying things is my hobby/stress relief, so it keeps me from strangling my family and coworkers!
that's wild. the last picture looks like the area at the launch, at Marburg, where people keep their boats and I was talking to a guy with a compact 16, a little while back. it looked like yours. I had never seen one and was interested about the shoal keel's performance.
 
#34 ·
re: "Free boat" seaworthiness

Seriously don't take it. There's no reason at this point to take a serious fixer upper at this point unless it offers you something that the cheap but not free boat doesn't. If that thing ever sails you will have spent far more fixing it than you would have buying a good cheap boat to begin with. It's very expensive to buy anything at all for a boat so you will be in for several grand easy no matter what. You could spend that money on a boat in better shape that would just sail.

You have to pick the boat you save. You can't save them all. So pick a healthy one.
 
#35 ·
Re: j24 seaworthiness

well, sight unseen, I don't know just how bad or good it is. if it's seriously bad, I wouldn't take it.

but it may be a moot point. I called the first marina. obviously, I have different ideas of reasonable than multi-hull guy.

350 for the winter, on the water. not terrible.
650 to haul it, block it up, clean it, and launch in the spring. I wouldn't have to deal with cleaning it, then, at least not the outside. and I would be able to care for the entire hull. no water in the winter but full electric access.
2000 for a year. maybe I am cheap...or just a poor sailor....but that's a good bit.

worst part is, it's all payable up front. even 350, up front, is out of my price range. i'd have had to save up for that and this was unexpected.

it's just too bad i'm not friends with anyone that lives on the water, there.

I will keep checking around back river, though. I can sail it to where it needs to go, but I can't pull money from trees.

I may just have to give it up, regardless of it's condition.
 
#36 ·
Capt Jack.. I've renamed the thread title because this is in no way a discussion of J-24s..

Your last sentence in your last post gives me hope ;)
 
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#37 ·
I cannot believe all the naysaying wet blankets in this thread posting before he's even seen the boat in person. My experience hath shown that those types have issues that have nothing to do with "free boats", the boat simply becomes a metaphor for what is wrong in their lives. I say go see it and if it floats, take it. Heck, a non-working outboard could simply need a new spark plug, a $2 investment that you can sell for $250. New sails you can sell for a damn fine profit. Go for it!
 
#40 ·
well, he sent me the address. guess I will, at the very least, be taking a look at it. I will let you know how it goes. I will try to take some pics. :)
 
#41 ·
Good luck. It's hard to resist the siren song of a free boat. But before you take it, consider everything carefully. What if the current owner is lying, and she was under water for more than a few days? What if the missing hatch has allowed water to build up in the cabin and ruined the bulkheads? What if the chainplates are attached to the bulkheads? What if the engine was waterlogged and has tons of salt in it? What if the sails are also full of salt?

Yes, the above can all be fixed. But at what cost? What could you buy for what you'll spend on fixing up this boat? Granted, no boat, not even a new one, is truly perfect right when you buy it, and you'll always want to make changes. But THIS boat isn't going to get you out on the water any time soon, and if it were me, I'd be worrying about what unknown issues are waiting for me. I think I'd pass on this boat and find something else. As you know, there ARE others out there, both free and low cost. Given your representations about your financial status, I'd also suggest that this boat is going to suck more out of your savings than you might like. I'd hate to hear that a fellow Sailnetter bought a boat and it became another "broken dream" boat. I'd rather hear about how you enhanced your existing boats and how much you enjoy them. Keep in mind that salvaging a boat, even a free boat, frequently costs more than you get from the sale of the parts.
 
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