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post #4976 of Old 11-06-2013
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Re: Redline 41

Originally Posted by PCP View Post
The Redline 41 looks kike a typical Mills design that means a top performance cruiser with a special incidence in racing. It is a relatively narrow boat (3.68m) with a big draft (2.50m) and a huge B/D ratio (51%) and very light (6400kg). It is a boat designed to sail with a lot of heel (to take advantage of that huge ballast) and it will not going to be a easy boat to sail, specially by a short crew. That huge ballast and the big forces transmitted to the hull demands a very expensive structure. This is going to be an expensive boat.

This means that C&C has turned more to racing than to fast cruising and this boat will not be an alternative to European mass production performance cruisers that will certainly be able to sell in the States at a considerable lesser price. I am thinking in First, Dehler, Salona and Elan.

We know that those brands sell very little in the States (some don't even have dealers there) and that means that the market on that area is very small.

We know for instance that the J122 and J111 are made in France because it makes mores sense to make it there since the majority of those boats are sold in Europe.

To what market points the C&C 41? To the American racing market? By what Pelicano says there are not such a market in the states where IRC is almost in extinction and to sell it to Europe it makes no sense because it will arrive there much more expensively than other Mills designs made in Turkey.

I believe that it will happen to this very nice design the same that had happened to Santa Cruz that had tried about the same thing with the same type of boat. I don't understand why a big name like C&C is making this type of boat a boat with a very narrow market. That is for small brands like Summit or the many small European companies that make high performance cruiser-racers. For a company that was big once and that we all wanted to see big again? I don't think so

"The new C&C Redline 41 is the ultimate racer / cruiser. Mark Mills designed the 41 to be fast, seaworthy, and safe. The inherent speed means that she can win races at any level of offshore racing as one has come to expect from a Mills design. The high volume, powerful hull means that the 41 can carry the accommodations and gear associated with a modern performance cruising boat. "

This time, contrary to what was said on the Bluejacket advertise I believe this boat will be a top racer but I doubt very much that it can be a good performance cruiser. In what regards that the Bluejacket 40 it will be a better performance cruiser but not as fast neither a top contender. In the end I believe the boats will cost about the same price.

What is the boat you think it will sell more? Is any of those boats viable as a production boat in the states?

A pity because the Redline 41 is a very nice design:


It is pure speculation on my part, but I suspect that the Redline 41 is the Mills design that the New York Yacht Club should have chosen in 2005 when they, instead, decided to go with the Frers-designed Swan 42 built by Nautor's. Not that this is the design that Mills submitted, but the specifications pretty closely match the NYYC design requirements and, as Paulo suggested,the price point will probably end up being pretty close to what the Swan 42 owners ended up paying (somewhere in the $650K range, IIRC). You decide:

I spent the 2011 and 2012 seasons racing on a Swan 42 and they're nice enough boats, though nothing special. Build quality in the early hulls was a bit sketchy - in big breeze at Key West there was noticeable flexing in the hull when the rig was wound up, leading to bulkheads separating from the hull, etc. Presumably this was addressed in later hulls.

So, I guess I'd say that there is a market for this kind of thing, but the economy right now isn't what it was in 2005, when NYYC pulled the trigger on the 42s. I guess we'll see how it goes.

Let me add that US Watercraft bought the C&C trademark and is building and marketing the boats on their own, which I think is a first for them. This might be just what the doctor ordered to breathe new life into that classic brand, particularly working with a top designer like Mills. Sort of like what McConaghy has been doing lately with Jason Ker.

Certainly very exciting times in the yachting industry. The global economy is a disaster but interesting boats continue to appear like clockwork. I'm very grateful.

We deal in lead, friend.
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