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I bought my first boat.. now i have a million question

3K views 27 replies 17 participants last post by  mitiempo 
#1 ·
I recently purchased a 1977 30' Irwin citation. I dont have any prefious experience sailing, and am registered for courses next year as well as i am going to keep the boat at a sailing club so that i can try to pick as many brains as i can for info.

The boat had leaks before the previous owner and allthough he fixed the leaks, there was a good amount of damage done to the galley. I am currently pulling every board that i can to replace and check.

I do have a couple questions though.

The sidestays for the mast go through the deck and into what used to be a 2 x 8. It is completely rotted on the starboard side. I have put git-rot into the whole section but am wondering what else should i do? The previous owner had mentioned he was going to remove the old wood and replace the 2 x 8. This does seem to help me sleep better at night, but someone else told me just to use the git-rot.

I would think it would be in my best interest to put a roller furling up but ive done a fair amount of seariching and due to my inexperience, i have to ask the following question..

Do i need to step the mast down in order to install roller furling?
 
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#4 · (Edited)
Second Jim's concern about 'git rot'.. this sounds like a necessary structural repair.. and future leak elimination.

It is not necessary to drop the mast to install roller furling. The mast can be temporarily stayed with a spare halyard, and the rigger can go up the mast as necessary. I'd suggest you replace the forestay while you're at it (Furlex usually supplies a new one) unless you have records showing the standing rigging has been recently replaced. Expect to pay something on the order of $2-3K installed with the necessary sail modifications.

Oh... Congrats on your boat and welcome to Sailnet!
 
#6 ·
Adding the furller was one of the best adds I have done, but you may want to hold off on upgrades till you have fully assessed and sailed the boat. You may find with a boat that has a rotted chain plate mount has other neglect. The mast my need to be stepped to address wiring issues.
 
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#7 ·
Photos may help.

Some terminology: Standing rigging holds the mast up (keeps it standing). Shrouds are the wires on each side which hold the mast up - you probably have 3 each side. Stays are front and back (forestay at the front, backstay at the back). Shrouds are connected to the hull using chainplates, which are normally bolted to a structural element.

You got a full survey before buying the boat, right?

If the shrouds are indeed attached to a rotten piece of 2x8, I would not sail until it is repaired. The forces on a shroud in moderate winds are enormous; if the chainplate tears out, the rig will come down. This would be bad. Also, stainless steel doesn't rust unless it is trapped in a damp, airless environment - like bolted or buried in a piece of rotted wood - so your chainplate may also be compromised. Any small crack in a chainplate is red lights and sirens!

Please do not sail until the situation has been professionally addressed.

As for a roller furler, there are strong feelings pro and con. On the positive side, it is definitely convenient. On the negative side it may prevent you from getting the best shape from your sail - so racing boats rarely have furlers, cruising boats often do. I would suggest that your priority should be to ensure the boat is safe and dry - standing rigging has been checked, essential maintenance completed. Then, if you have any money left over, look at a roller furler.

If you do decide to install one, the mast does not have to be removed - but the forestay does. So you need to be sure the mast is supported during this process. A professional installer may be able to advise.

Good luck!
 
#8 ·
Mookie, check Yahoo groups for the Irwin Owners groups, there are a couple.
There is even a face book page.

Your 30 is quite a bit different from my 38 but I think you've got quiet a bit going on that needs to be addressed before that boat is safe to sail.

Chuck
1987 Irwin 38 CC MkII
 
#10 ·
Sail the boat for a while before you invest in roller furling. You may find that you prefer having the ability to readily change sails to wind conditions then the ability to put away the boat 5 minutes faster at the end of the day. That is realistically the tradeoff made with roller furling vs hank-on.

My first boat had hank-on sails and my current one has (brand new) roller furling. I'm not sure that the investment in roller furling was the right one for me.
 
#12 ·
I have just looked at all the Irwin Citation 30's on Yachtworld. I have not seen one with a "2 x 8" used for chainplate attachment. Would like to see a pic as others have mentioned. As some other threads on Sailnet have shown Irwin's chainplate attachments have been suspect on other models as well.

GitRot doesn't repair anything structural - it just petrifies the rot. I also agree it should be your first priority before sailing to repair the chainplate attachment properly.
 
#13 ·
Congrats on the new boat!

When got my boat I felt pressured to upgrade my boat to the currently popular rigging setup of roller furling, all lines led to cockpit, etc. only to later learn that I actually prefer sailing with the simpler rig my boat already had.

Don't feel pressured to upgrade/modify the rigging until all of the safety maintenance issues are fixed, you have money to burn, and have sailed on boats rigged different ways.
 
#15 ·
A minor point; with 2 posts, Sailnet is not going to permit Mookie to post pictures. We will have to get the picture through accurate verbal descriptions and good pointed questioning.

Welcome to boasting and Sailnet. Participating in repairing your boat either as a helper or a primary repairer is a great way of learning your boat. Ask questions and solicit help but don't feel stymied by a large volume of seemingly contradictory responses. Sometimes you have to get a feeling about what is correct and doable and just get started!

Good luck and welcome.

Tod
 
#16 ·
I had a chain plate break in half, while sailing an older Catalina 27, one day. Sounded like a shotgun going off nearby. Luckily the winds weren't too heavy. As soon as I realized what happened, I was able to turn her onto the other tack, taking the pressure off of the rigging on the broken side. Substituted a halyard as a temporary stay, doused all sails and limped home on the Atomic 4 motor.

Even though I had a professional survey, the problem went unnoticed until it broke.

The chain plate had deteriorated right where it touched the decking. I replaced it and was back sailing in a week or so. Now that I think back on it..I don't remember if I replaced BOTH chain-plates (on either side) or not. If I didn't, I certainly should have. It was 30 years ago, so my memory is long gone on the details, but I remember that sound!

Not a condition you want to put yourself in. Get a pro to look at the problem and do not sail until you do! regards, Rich
 
#18 ·
You might be more correct than I on the exact number of years. As I recall, it was 10 years old when I bought it. 30 years ago may have only been been 20/25 years ago.

Loved that boat and, even now, wish I had never sold it. I had too much to do at the office to use it enough..... at the time. Darn!
regards, Rich

p.s. Hmm...let's see 1971 to 2013 is 42 years... it might have been nearly 30 years ago???
 
#20 ·
Ditto on holding off on upgrades for now.

There are two things every sailor has to learn:
1. how to sail well
2. how to manage the maintenance of your vessel

Don't discount the importance of boat "management". That old 30 footer has some more surprises for you besides the chainplate attachments. Save your capital for these inevitable surprises.

Sounds like a PROPER repair of the chainplates is your first order of business. The loads on your shrouds are considerable, and if one of them fails, it could be inconvenient at the least, and expensive and dangerous at most. Heck, you can pretty much count on expensive.

Some folks maintain their boat with a phone and a checkbook, while others, like me, prefer to do their own maintenance for the savings, the satisfaction, and the assurance that the job's been done and done right.

A hank on jib on a 30 footer is reasonably easy to manage, and as others have already mentioned, it allows you to swap out headsails to suit conditions.

Good luck with your new boat. There is no better resource than sailnet. This site has an incredible accumulated database, so make good use of the search function.
 
#21 · (Edited)
I, too have a Cat 27 and although mine wasn't surveyed have did a visual survey of the chain plates and they look to be in good condition and the wood solid. Having read this I will look further into their condition but as stated with an older boat prioritizing the maintenance is a key asset! I put better sails on mine including a new mainsail. I have leaking keel bolts and have epoxied the smile and am having the nuts ground and tightened! Couldn't do it in the water as with my previous C& C as the nuts and bolts aren't stainless and the previous owner left a good sized divot where he hit a rock so had to do a visual first. I received a generous settlement through insurance as an errant boater teed off on my stern pulpit in the slip so I can upgrade and repair that soon.too. I was lucky enough to inherit a newer Furlex roller furler but I singlehand the boat with my dachshunds so that and an auto tiller are a must. As stated every sailor's needs and every sailboat is different so hope you're able to have your new boat ready by next spring and a good teacher would help learning the ropes!
.
 
#24 ·
Sorry for the error.
I missed a digit - corrected now. Rare for a chainplate to fail that quickly (12 years) from corrosion, may have been flawed from new.

I replaced my main chainplates after 36 years but after pulling the originals they still looked good with no visible corrosion. New ones are longer with an additional bolt through the bulkhead and 316 as I bought the raw stock and had my welder finish them for me.
 
#26 ·
I had to pull the plates to check them. Replaced with 316 as I doubt the originals were 316 - most likely 304. 316 is slightly weaker than 304 and a longer 3 bolt plate costs virtually no more than the original 2 bolt plate. Added risers on deck so there will never be a puddle of water around the base so the plate had to rise higher above the deck, therefore had to be longer even if I kept to the 2 bolt
design.

I think the new chainplates will last at least as long as the originals, but I won't.
 
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