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Traveler usage?

13K views 22 replies 10 participants last post by  Melrna 
#1 ·
I''m a novice sailor with a C320 still trying to learn and improve sail trimming techniques. I''ve been concentrating recently on traveler technique, but have been unsuccessful in gaining desired results consistently. What I''m curious to understand now is under what conditions are average weekend sailors compelled to adjust the traveler? My curiosity was further piqued after I scanned about a dozen sailing mags looking at action photos of many (100+) boats underway - I counted on one hand the number of boats that had their traveler in any other position than centered, in wide ranging weather/sea conditions.

I''ve been experimenting with the traveler adjustments in light winds trying to induce more twist and power-up the mainsail (traveler to windward, ease the mainsheet) - this did not gain me boatspeed. In heavier winds, I''ve had to depower the main by dropping the traveler to leeward - this does work well in gaining better boat control and limiting apparent wind speed.

I understand that I need more trimming practice and to develop a better feel for my specific boat. And I know that I''ll need to master the traveler as I contemplate racing one of these days. So, is it only the anal, sailing perfectionist (or club racer) that spends time on the traveler?
 
#3 ·
You didn''t mention whether you were using telltales on the main.

I have four tell tales on the leach of my main...getting them to fly properly gives me valuable feedback on whether the adjustment to the traveler or mainsheet was what I needed for better sail trim.

Fairwinds,

Jim
 
#4 ·
Humpwalker,

The mainsheet traveler is used to optimize the width of the slot between the mainsail and the jib. By precise adjustment of the traveler, you can ensure that the slot between the mainsail and jib is neither too wide nor too narrow to accept the volume of air that is being directed through it. The width of the slot must be correctly adjusted in order for the sails to generate their maximum amount of power. You should adjust the jib correctly for the course that you will be sailing, and then adjust the mainsail until the jib just begins to backwind and lift the luff of the mainsail. When that happens, you know that the width of the slot is just right.

When the windspeed increases, and the boat becomes overpowered, you can narrow the slot and reduce the amount of power that is generated by the sails by easing the traveler to leeward. You can also narrow the slot and reduce the amount of power by easing the mainsheet, but that changes the shape of the mainsail in ways that are not helpful. By correctly adjusting the relationship between the mainsail and the jib, you also maximize the boat''s ability to point.

Also, when you bear off the wind from a beat to a close reach and you ease the jibsheet, you are opening up the slot between the mainsail and the jib. By adjusting the traveler to leeward, you can optimize the width of the slot for that course. As you bear off even further (beyond the range of adjustment of the traveler), you need to ease the mainsheet to adjust the width of the slot, and you use the boom vang to control the shape of the mainsail.

If your sails are badly trimmed, and you suddenly correct that condition, then the difference will be enough to register on your knotmeter. But, if your sails are basically trimmed correctly, and you are making the kind of fine adjustments that a skilled racer would use, those fine adjustments can''t be measured by your knotmeter. Your knotmeter isn''t accurate enough to register differences in the range of an umpteenth of a knot. You have to read the authorities on sail trim, learn the basic principles, and take it on faith that, if you follow their advice, the boat will go minutely faster and point minutely higher. The only way that you can know for sure those techniques are working is by comparing your progress with the progress of other boats or racers, to see whether you are consistently gaining on them or falling behind.

Moving the traveler to windward and easing the mainsheet in light air is only helpful so long as the width of the slot is optimized. If it widens the slot, it could be detrimental. Your first concern should be to shape your sails as full as possible and to get the width of the slot right. Then you can make slight adjustments to the mainsail shape to power up the mainsail to the nth degree. But don''t expect to see or feel any resulting increase in speed.

In my opinion, there isn''t any difference between the basic techniques that a skilled racer and a skilled cruiser would use. The same sail trimming techniques that help a racer drive efficiently to the windward mark also help a cruiser claw off a lee shore. The same techniques that get a racer around the course ahead of the competition will get a passagemaker to the destination three days ahead of schedule. You don''t have to learn all the sophisticated sail trim techniques to enjoy sailing, but the more you learn, the more efficient and safer sailor you will be.
 
#5 ·
I don''t know how much in vogue the "slot effect" theory is these days with racers or theorists. Sailormon is probably correct in saying that making the "slot" too small will reduce lift of the headsail/mainsail combo. The interaction of headsail and main is one that has certainly generated a lot of "wind", but Sailormon is certainly correct in generally arguing that you have to consider the two sails as working together, and try to optimize the performance of both for best performance of the boat.

You don''t say whether your boat has a boom vang or not (a control line which allows downward force to be exerted on the boom, usually attached between a point near mid boom and a point near the base of the mast). The presence or absence of a vang will determine how much use you can get out of your traveler.

Without a vang, the traveler is your best way to control the angle of attack between the main and the wind, particularly when beating to windward. If the wind shifts and you compensate by easing the sheet, your sail shape will change. If it was well shaped before, it will no longer be so. A vang-less boat does best to play the wind shifts (or adjust course) using the traveler to keep the mainail''s angle of attack optimized.

A boat with a vang on it can "vang-sheet", usually in a stiff breeze: tighten the vang to flatten the sail, and use the sheet to control the sail''s angle of attack. If the vang is set rather loose for light winds, however, your sail shape may change if you sheet in too tight in an attempt to get the sail angle (boom angle) close to the centerline of the boat. In light air, a traveler is useful to allow a full shape in the main (having an eased sheet) while pulling the boom to windward until it is centered for good pointing ability.

To some extent downwind, the traveler will also replace the function of a vang, allowing you to shape the sail with the mainsheet while having the proper angle of attach relative to the wind. Alas, most travelers don''t have enough range of motion to allow a fairly broad reach with flattened sails; this is where having a vang is a real advantage.

Allen Flanigan

Alexandria, VA
 
#6 ·
Sailormon 6:

With all due respect, reading you post it is clear that you are way too obsessed with the slot, don''t understand the concept of powering up or down a sail plan, and really don''t seem to understand the role of the traveler in powering up or down the sail plan.

While closing down the slot too far can in fact slow a boat down, the slot has nothing to do with depowering the rig, as least as the term ''depowering'' is used in sail trim terminology.

In a general sense, there are a lot of factors in powering up or down a sail but the two biggies are the depth of its camber and the angle of attack. The deeper the camber (curvature of the sail) the more drive the sail develops, but along with drive (which is the forward component of the force generated) with increased camber comes a higher side force as well. This sideforce causes heeling and leeway. In really light air, the air flow lacks sufficient energy to flow around a sail with too deep a camber. As the wind picks up, you can introduce deeper camber which is how you ''power up'' a sail. Powering up involves and easing of halyards, outhauls,and backstays.

As the wind builds, so does drive but at some point hydrodynamic drag becomes the limit on speed, and at this point additional drive is not necessary. As this point is approached heeling becomes excessive. As the boat approaches this point the sails need to be depowered. To depower halyards, outhauls, and backstays are tightened. This pulls fabric out of the body of the sail, flattening the sail. The sail produces less forward drive, but it also produces less side force.

The second aspect of this discussion is angle of attack. For any given wind and sailshape, at any point on the sail, there is a proper angle of attack. If the angle of attack is too flat, the sail luffs, and if the angle of attack is too steep, the sail generates less lift and more drag and greater sideforces causing more heeling and leeway.

Because of gradiant wind effect, (slower air near the water than higher in the air due to the friction between the water surface and the air above) in light air, the apparent wind angle felt by the sail will be different at the head of the sail than at the foot. The apparent wind at the foot of the sail, will appear to be more forward than the air at the masthead. To allow the sail to have a proper angle of attack twist is introduced into the sail so that the upper part of the sail has a different angle of attack than the bottom of the sail. Here is where the traveler, backstay, and the boom vang come into play.

By bringing the traveller to windward, the pull of the mainsheet becomes more horizontal than vertical. In doing so, the boom is held inward toward the centerline, but the boom is allowed to lift a little, and that lifting eases the tension on the leech of the sail allowing more twist to develop.

As the wind builds, gradient effect generally becomes insigificant, so the whole leading edge of the sail wants the same angle of attack and in general, that angle of attack needs to be much flatter than it would be in moderate winds. To unify the angle of attack, the traveller is lowered to leeward and the mainsheet tightened, which increases the downward force on the leech of the sail. This increased leech tension removes the twist from the sail. As the wind builds the angle of attack can further be lessened by lowering traveler further to leeward. As you bear off on a reach, the traveller can be further lowered to maintain the proper angle of attack without powering up the sail, but at some point the sail needs to be eased broader off than the length of the traveller can permit while still generating the proper downward force, at that point the Vang takes over the main role in controling twist and the sheet then simply controls the overall angle of attack of the sail.

Simply easing the mainsheet in a strong breeze does allow the head of the sail to twist off and reduce heel, but it comes at a price. In easing the sheet the boom rises and allows more fabric into the body of the sail increasing power just when you need to reduce power, and also in order to obtain enough drive, the lower portion of the sail is overtrimmed developing a lot more weather helm than would occur with proper sail bladed out sail trim.
The backstay tension (especially on a fractional rig) can be used to depower the rig further. On any rig, even one with a stiff mast, tensioning the backstay removes sag from the forestay and is doing so, draws fabric out of the sail in a horizontal direction, flattening the jib and depowering it. As the forestay is tightened the mast moves aft and that also changes the relationship between the jibsheet lead and the head of the sail, allowing the leech of the jib to open slightly, reducing the angle of attack of the upper portion of the sail. On a boat with a bendy rig, and more dramatically and controllably on a fractionally rigged boat, as backstay tension increases the mast bows forward, in doing so it also draws fabric out of the sail depowering the sail in the same manner that tightening the forestay flattens and depowers the jib. Also similar to the jib, the masthead moves aft as the backstay is tightened and that opens the leech slightly at the head of the sail, easing the angle of attack and further reducing heeling, weather helm and leeway.

There is a tendancy to dismiss this as ''racer stuff'' but these kinds of subtle sail trim adjustments can make for a much more comfortable and controlable passage as well as adding significantly to the speed of the boat.

Lastly, really disagree with the idea That "if your sails are basically trimmed correctly, and you are making the kind of fine adjustments that a skilled racer would use, those fine adjustments can''t be measured by your knotmeter". Small adjustments to backstay or traveller positions can tremendously reduce weather helm and heel angles. On my prior 28 footer, these fine tuning items were good for a half knot or more, and on bigger boats or in higher winds, these kinds of minor adjustments can yield ennormous gains in speed.

Respectfully,
Jeff
 
#7 ·
Hmmm. I suppose Jeff that you may be correct under really light conditions, a sail with deeper camber will stall because the air cannot "follow" the shape of the sail; i.e. the sail cannot "accelerate" the flow (get it to change direction, thus generating lift force). I''ll have to experiment with this next time I''m out on the Potomac on one of our notorious light air days. My acquired understanding from reading tuning guides is that in "light" air, as opposed to "heavy" air, powering up involves making the sail shape rounder. Steve Colby''s theory is that faster moving air has a harder time following a rounded sail shape and will be more likely to "separate" from the sail, stalling it. But your sentence regarding "powering up" seems absolutely correct: Ease halyards/downhauls, outhauls, backstays to power up in lighter air. This should give the sail a rounder shape for maximum lift. And, as Jeff points out, as the wind builds you reach a point where you have all the lift you can handle and need to depower the sail by flattening it.

Check out the following guides for mainsail trimming and shaping:

http://www.vsf.vvv.com/training/Racing/main/basic.htm

http://www.sailingusa.info/sail_shape.htm

Here''s a good guide for those who lack a vang:

http://www.quantumsails.com/pdf/THE%20MAINSAIL%20TRIMMER%20AND%20THE%20TRAVELER.pdf

Here''s Dan Dickison''s two part article on controls for the mainsail other than the traveler and sheet:

http://www.sailnet.com/collections/articles/index.cfm?articleid=ddcksn0318
 
#8 ·
Jeff_H,

Your discussion is, as usual, thorough and technically sound, but, if Humpwalker is really a beginner, it might have been more complex than he needs at this time.

I’m not a naval architect, or sailmaker, or physics professor, and I don’t think Humpwalker expected me to be otherwise. I’m a retired lawyer and weekend sailor who has, for many years, had consistent racing success wherever I have raced, and who enjoys sharing what I know with new sailors. Like most people, I am impressed by the depth of your understanding of sailing technology, and grateful for the generous contribution of your time to the forum, but your comments on my post are grossly unfair, plainly wrong and mean-spirited, and I really don’t understand what prompted them.

You begin with the assertion that “ …you are way too obsessed with the slot.” How do you know the amount of importance that I attribute to the slot? Are you saying that adjusting the slot is unimportant? The only clue that I gave to my assessment of the relative importance of the slot is when I said that, in light air it is more important to adjust the slot than it is to tweak the shape of the mainsail in the manner that Humpwalker suggested. I said, get the slot right first, then tweak the mainsail. Do you disagree? Should Humpwalker allow the mainsail to luff while he is fooling around trying to shape it?

Next, you claim that I “…don''t understand the concept of powering up or down a sail plan, and really don''t seem to understand the role of the traveler in powering up or down the sail plan.” Later it becomes apparent that you are really quibbling with my use of the term “depowering.” If you will re-read my post you will see that I never used that term. What I said was “When the windspeed increases, and the boat becomes overpowered, you can narrow the slot and reduce the amount of power that is generated by the sails by easing the traveler to leeward.” Either your sails are “harnessed” to the wind and generating power, or they are “disconnected” from the wind, and flapping uselessly. Do you disagree with my conclusion that easing the traveler to leeward reduces the amount of “power that is generated by the sails?” Is it your opinion that the sails generate more power when you ease the traveler to leeward of the optimum position, in strong winds?

You close by saying that you “…really disagree with the idea that ‘if your sails are basically trimmed correctly, and you are making the kind of fine adjustments that a skilled racer would use, those fine adjustments can''t be measured by your knotmeter.’" My opinion was expressed within the context of the situation presented by Humpwalker. He was trying to slightly tweak the shape of the mainsail in light air. You cannot expect such a minor tweak to register reliably on a knotmeter in light air conditions. I agree that tweaking the mainsail and jib in a variety of ways can, cumulatively, make a significant, observable difference in boat speed, especially in stronger winds, but that was not what Humpwalker was talking about. He was talking about making one little tweak, and then looking at the knotmeter to see if it registered a change in speed. The readings of a knotmeter can be helpful, but are also imprecise and ambiguous. It’s often difficult to determine whether a change in boatspeed is due to a change in sail trim, or to a change in windspeed, or to wave action, or to some other factor. However, there is no ambiguity when the bearing to your opponent changes.
 
#10 ·
Hello Sailormon6,

I have gone back and reread Humpwalker,your original post and my response. To begin with I sincerely apologize to you if you read my response to your original post as "grossly unfair, plainly wrong and mean-spirited, and I really don’t understand what prompted them." I really did not mean them that way. My comments were meant to answer the original question as it was asked dealing with use of the traveler in the wide range of conditions encountered by a weekend sailor. My critique of your post were not intended as a personal attack, but were intended, for your sake, to correct some errors in thinking that your posting appeared to making.

As I read your original post I felt and still feel that the question was about how to use the traveller under conditions that an average weekend sailors is compelled to adjust the traveler. In rereading your response I felt and feel that your post missed the key point in responding to the question at hand, namely that the traveler only does two things, control twist and control angle of attack. (I elaborated beyond those two items so as to put the concept of twist and angle of attack into perspective.)It is for that reason that I said, "You....really don''t seem to understand the role of the traveler in powering up or down the sail plan". That probably should have been phrased "Your post does not explain the role of the traveler in powering up or down the sail plan" which is at the heart of the question being asked.

I still think that your post places too much emphasis on the slot. You spend a lot of time talking about optomizing the width of the slot. Except in light air, the slot shape plays a pretty minor part role sail trim. If you reread your post, with nearly every suggestion of a change in sail trim you talk about the shape of the slot. At the same time your post never really talks about the sail trimming factors that predominantly control drive and side force, namely camber, and angle of attack. That was the point of my comment, "that you are way too obsessed with the slot". That comment probably should have read "Your post appears to be way too obsessed with the slot."

I do admit that perhaps I misunderstood what you were saying in your post when you were discussing what happens when a boat is overpowered. You discuss a couple of ways of dealing with being overpowered but again only as they affect the slot, without ever talking about how they affected whether the boat was too powered up or too bladed out which is far more significant to how the boat is performing.

Again I should probably have said "Your post does not appear to understand the concept of powering up or down a sail plan" rather than say that you didn''t seem to understand these concepts. My point here was that for all of the discussion within your post, there was never any reference to the concepts involved in powering up and down and that the basics of sail trim really deal with shifting gears between being appropriately powered for the conditions and point of sail.

Lastly, you and I appear to disagree on the accuracy of a knotmeter as a sail trim tool. This may result from how we each use a knotmeter and the equipment we are using in conjunction with the knotmeter. I use the knotmeter a lot. I use it in conjunction with a wind instrument set to reflect the true wind. I keep my eyes moving between the knotmeter, wind instrument, the sails (mostly the teletales), and the masthead fly. Each gives different information, but cumulatively it is pretty easy to correlate speed with windspeed and direction to develop a sense of the performance of the boat for that windspeed (which will sometimes be different from one tack to the other)and sea state. While it is true that in many, if not most, conditions these instruments will jump around a lot, it is not hard to develop a sense of the pattern of change and to tell if even small adjustments help or hurt that pattern. while individual minor changes may result on small performance gains, the combined impact of these changes can often result in big gains. This is especially true when pointing or when sailing at deep wind angles.

Again, I apologize if my comments came off as being a personal attack. They were in no way meant as such.

Respectfully,
Jeff
 
#11 ·
Jeff,

Thank you for your kind apology, but you still miss the point.

Humpwalker didn’t ask for advice generally on sail trim. He asked specifically about the basic uses of the traveler by a novice. In my first post, I responded narrowly to Humpwalker’s request, and gave him suggestions on the most basic uses of the traveler.

He didn’t ask about sail trim generally, or about powering the sailplan up or down, and I didn’t discuss that subject. I was amazed that you could conclude that I don’t understand the subject, when I didn’t even discuss the subject. Now, you say my post didn’t reflect my understanding of the concept, but, again, that’s because I didn’t discuss it. I also didn’t talk about light-air sailing techniques, but that doesn’t mean I don’t know anything about light air sailing.

Your first message in this thread was uncharacteristically brief and incomplete, so I added my two cents. Then you decided to go beyond the narrow question asked, and to talk about powering up and down from A to Z, and that’s fine. It was a good contribution. All I ask is that, if you feel moved to express your opinion that any of the rest of us don’t know what we’re talking about, do it for something we said, and not for something we didn’t say, and be fair. We all appreciate your contributions, but nobody wants to be unfairly targeted.

We still disagree on the accuracy of the knotmeter as a sail trimming tool. You say that your experience has enabled you to develop “a sense of the pattern of change,” so that you can see a meaningful pattern in the readings of the knotmeter and wind instrument as they are jumping around. That’s fine for you, but it isn’t much help to the novice, who hasn’t had enough experience to develop that sense, and who is still learning the fundamentals of sailing. Many of the people on this forum don’t have your experience, or wind instruments, and some don’t have knotmeters. For them, trying to use the knotmeter for subtle tweaking of the sails in light air would only serve to frustrate them. I stand by my advice. If you learn as much as you can about sail trim and about every aspect of sailing, and put that knowledge into use, your boat will sail faster and more efficiently. Knotmeters don’t make sailboats go fast. Knowledge makes them go fast.
 
#12 ·
Humpwalker,

I want to apologize to you for the fact that your question got sidetracked. One of your concerns was to find a way to measure whether your sail trimming is working. You have tried to use the knotmeter, but, when you made slight changes in sail trim, the knotmeter has apparently not registered changes in boatspeed that assured you that the sail trimming helped. Let me try to get you thinking about the problem in a little different way.

Why do you need to see proof that every sail trim technique that you use is actually working? Dinghy racers don’t have knotmeters or wind instruments, and they learn to trim their sails with precision without those aids. They use telltales and knowledge to make sure that their sails are correctly trimmed. Telltales that are attached to your rigging show you the direction of the apparent wind, and telltales that are attached to your sails help you visualize the way the air is moving over the surface of your sails. If the telltales are not flying correctly, that tells you that you probably need to correct something about your sail trim. If they are flying correctly, that tells you that your sails are trimmed fairly well. The average sailor can read telltales reasonably well and make the adjustments that will keep the telltales flying fairly well. That level of skill will put you among the average sailors.

After your telltales tell you that your sails are reasonably well trimmed, how do you make those finer adjustments to your sail trim that extract every bit of available power from your sails? That’s where knowledge comes into the equation. The more skilled sailors have studied sail shape and sail trim, and have practiced what they have learned until they know what a perfectly trimmed sail (for the applicable conditions) looks like. They can visualize it in their mind’s eye. When they look at their sails, and compare them with that mental image, they can see the differences, and they know just what to do to make their sails conform to that image.

The ability to see imperfections in your sail trim is not a mystical ability that some of us are born with and some are not. Those indicators are always present for anyone to see. First, you have to learn what to look for. Then you have to study your sails. I looked at my sails for years and didn’t see some of the more subtle indicators or understand how to interpret them. After the first time I saw them, they became much more obvious. If you can look at your sails and see that they are trimmed impeccably, then you will know that your sails are generating as much power as the laws of physics permit, and, just like dinghy racers, you won’t need a knotmeter to tell you so.

I wish someone could give you a short course on precision sail trimming, but I know that’s not possible on the forum. There’s no easy substitute for studying the authorities on sail trim, and for practice. You can probably make the quickest progress in that regard by taking one of the good racing courses that is offered by some of the best known sailing schools.
 
#13 ·
Humpwalker infers, what I believe to be true, that Dinghy sailing / racing is the very quickest way to improve your sailing skills.(ie: Dinghy Sailors don''t need/use knotlogs/windspeed indicators etc)
Those little beasts are very eager to tell you when you''ve done something right or wrong, and they do it in an emphatic manner.
OMO
Gord
 
#14 ·
Sailormon6 infers, what I believe to be true, that Dinghy sailing / racing is the very quickest way to improve your sailing skills.(ie: Dinghy Sailors don''t need/use knotlogs/windspeed indicators etc)
Those little beasts are very eager to tell you when you''ve done something right or wrong, and they do it in an emphatic manner.
OMO
Gord
 
#15 ·
Wow. That was lot of interesting stuff to digest. thanks folks.

As A bit of a begginner myself, I ahve to admit that I tend to use my main traveller as a steering tool to balance the boat''s weather helm/lee helm tendencies.

From my point of view, changing the angle of pull away from the boat''s centreline introduces a directional change that means you can have your rudder "in the middle" except when you actually want to change direction.


This has actually been workin quite well for us. It puzzles me to learn that this isn''t what it is for (since it works so well at it).

Oh well.


Sasha
 
#16 ·
Hi Sasha,

There is nothing wrong with using your traveller to reduce weather helm. It is a quick way of reducing the angle of attack of the sail, (the angle between the apparent wind and the sail). This is one quick step step in the process of ''blading out''. It is a very good way to go since when you drop the traveller in building winds rather than ease the mainsheet, you are not ''powering up'' the sail (see explanation above). This should reduce both heeling and weather helm and may be all that you need to do in a gust.

On raceboats in gusty conditions, we are constantly playing the traveller with the changes in windspeed and to a great extent use the traveller to steer the boat in big winds and waves.

If you are sailing in heavier winds for a sustained period, tightening the halyards, backystay, and outhaul, combined with moving the jib lead a notch or two aft, will further reduce weather helm and heeling up to the point that you need to reef or change down to a smaller jib.

Jeff
 
#17 ·
Sasha,

As Jeff points out, easing the traveller is one way of reducing weather helm, especially in gusts, but there can be different causes of weather helm, and there are, likewise, different ways that you can reduce weather helm. For example, you can affect weather helm by sail trim, by adjusting sail area, and by adjusting the mast itself. If you are interested in learning more about it, you might want to read another discussion on this forum entitled "Factors Influencing Boat Balance," where it is being discussed in some detail.
 
#18 ·
Sorry, A little confused, bored and wanting attention!

First, my name is Bryin and I currently live in Brooklyn, New York. I stumbled across this forum while surfing the web for various other topics and browsed around a bit and though I would stop in and see if I could add anything to your community.

Hopefully I go mostly unnoticed as I am unsure how I may contribute but I am going to do my best to try and add something beneficial.

So, as an introduction I'm an information security professional and work for a large data security house as an analyst for large corporations requiring an immediate technician to evaluate their network infrastructure for attacks and vulnerabilities.

Okay, no more gobble-de-****. If this post is within the wrong category, mod, please adjust it.

On another note, did anyone ever experience the website that was marketing snakes on a plane, that samuel l jackson flick? There is another website setup that you can use to send similar messages to people, not that you care but its called callitfake.com. Pretty interesting stuff.

Sorry if you think I'm spamming, but this is my first post, I'm just bored and have no one to talk to so I'm just hanging out.. waiting on someone to give me something I can interact with. Glad I could be a part of your community, once again, Thanks!
 
#20 ·
foolishzeros said:
Sorry if you think I'm spamming, but this is my first post, I'm just bored and have no one to talk to so I'm just hanging out.. waiting on someone to give me something I can interact with. Glad I could be a part of your community, once again, Thanks!
Uh...shure. No problem. I never thought this was spam anyway.... We should thank you for resurrecting a great thread. ;)
 
#21 ·
The main sheet traveler has the primary function of controlling the point of trim, inboard or outboard, of where the main sheet block attaches to the boat. I find the following baseline settings to work as the starting place to fine tune the main sail. Wind 0- 5 set the main boom slightly to windward of the boat’s center line. 5-10 set the main boom at boats center line. 10-15 set the traveler to the full outboard position, this reduces heeling and allows the air to escape more freely from the leach area of the mainsail. 15-25 set the traveler ½ the distance between the centerline of the boat and the leeward aft corner of the boat. Letting the boom out any further will now bring into play the boom vang but that another question. As I have stated this is my approach and the others may have different thoughts.
 
#22 · (Edited)
My two cents. To try to keep it simple. If the boom is sheeted to the centre of the boat, ie no traveller, all the force is straight up and down, which flattens the sail. The further you let it out the greater the force in the horizontal direction and the less vertically, so the sail becomes less flat. Draw the triangle where the hypotenuse is the mainsheet.

Put in the traveller and as the boom goes outboard to leeward you can keep the pull vertical, to a certain point, because the traveller isn't wide enough to cover the full range.

Without a traveller as you pull the boom in you increasingly pull more vertically and get a flatter sail, and as you let it out you get less vertical pull and a fuller sail which you may not want.

The practical effect of this is that you set the mainsheet and traveller to get the sail shape you want and then leave the mainsheet and trim via the traveller.

The shape in light winds is a balance between twist via less vertical downpull, and traveller to windward, and flatter shape in the very light, then more shape as it gets a bit stronger set through other controls ie outhaul, cunningham and halyard, through to flat shape with stronger winds using all those plus the traveller to leeward.

When I put a traveller on a class trailer sailer the effect was dramatic, in pointing ability, speed and standing up. You could see the results in racing. There's nothing like carving through the fleet as feedback.

In essence then use the mainsheet and the other controls to set your shape for the wind and conditions and your traveller for trim. This is the opposite to just using the mainsheet, with the traveller as only semi-moveable. It is also useful cruising, though then you don't have to trim so often.

I hope this attempt to explain the basic principles helps though after three years the original poster probably has it sorted lol.
 
#23 · (Edited)
First I want to say this is a great discussion. Thanks guys. As a cruiser type sailor and occasional racer no matter what boat I am on I am always learning new tricks in sail trim. Each boat trims a little differently depending on what hardware and sail plan each boat has. When I got my present boat, 05 Hunter 33, I spent all last season trying to figure out sail trim on this boat. With no backstay, furling main, traveller over my head, and small jib, I had to relearn how to control the mainsail sail shape which is different from my other boat, a Tanzer for which I raced. The concepts are basically the same but which lines to tweak where a little different.
I cannot agree more with what is said about racers and sail trim. Once season on the race circuit is worth more than ten seasons cruising. I just believe it just makes for a smarter sailor and seamanship.

Since there was considerable discussion on the slot, I will share one of the new tricks I learned from racing last season to my current boat. When close hauled I could never achieve a good slot using the normal outside track for the jib lines. I have a coach roof track that I never figured out how to use properly until I did the Manhansett Race in Long Island Sound. What I learned was, I now have two jibs sheets attached to my jib; one for the coach roof track for close hauling and one for the outside track for close haul in big wind (20knots >) and running. This helps me from re-running my lines for different tacks since I am usually short handed in crew and on the Hunter I am cruising ( being lazy and enjoying the sail). When using the coach roof tracks, it creates a very nice slot, I get a little more speed out of the boat, especially in light winds and I find I have better control over the whole sail plan. Using this technique, I find my boat faster than the Bennie toys, Catalina's and other mass production boats while on the water. Just my one cent worth.
Melissa
S/V Freedom
Here is me runing circles around the Volvo racers last year!
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/melrna2001/detail?.dir=1e88re2&.dnm=683bre2.jpg&.src=ph
 
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