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Frers F&C 44

43K views 74 replies 25 participants last post by  Daniel S M 
#1 ·
Frers F&C 44

I am trying to find more informatin on the Frers & Cybils 44. These were made in Argintina around 1980. I would appreciate any information or feedback.
Regards, James
 
#53 ·
Re: Frers F&C 44

Thank you very much for your answer.
Still I ask myself why they used such a thread on the bolts. They are definitely
not made for fixation in wood or grp.
Maybe they glued female-skrew-nuts into the coachroof from inside?
nevertheless I now know that I can risk to remove it.
I would be grateful for getting a picture of the installation/hole.
Thank you in advance.
Regards
 
#54 ·
K-22 here... I removed the plexiglass ports, and replaced them with tempered glass, and rebed each Port with high quality Butyl Tape-- not a leak again in two years running I have owned her.
It is the 5-Part seal that is critical... (Yes I am including the outter chrome plated brass 'flange')
 
#55 ·
Re: Frers F&C 44

I have been interested in buying an F&C44 for some time and wish to get an opportunity to sail with an experienced owner to appreciate the boat at sea and check if it is what I am looking for. I never owned a boat of this size and was puzzled with a short trial I did once recently. Meanwhile I remain very attracted by the boat and wish to learn more about her.
Could one of the current owners invite me onboard? I am based in the Netherlands and can travel a reasonable distance.
JB (jb.juery@me.com)
 
#56 ·
Re: Frers F&C 44

Reading your post, I realized having exactly the same problem that you discribed. The chain plates on my F&C44 hull K16 are rotten.
The craftsmen on the yard are puzzled about the whole construction. Having only two of these boats in Gemany means the yards have no experience in this kind of reconstruction. So I would be glad if you could give me information about the
step by step progress of the repair. Especially photographs from imside/outside that show the approach and complexity would be very
helpful.
I thank you in advance for assistance
Regards
Klaus
kholthoefer@t-online.de
 
#62 ·
Re: Frers F&C 44

Reading your post, I realized having exactly the same problem that you discribed. The chain plates on my F&C44 hull K16 are rotten.
The craftsmen on the yard are puzzled about the whole construction. Having only two of these boats in Gemany means the yards have no experience in this kind of reconstruction. So I would be glad if you could give me information about the
step by step progress of the repair. Especially photographs from imside/outside that show the approach and complexity would be very
helpful.
I thank you in advance for assistance
Regards
Klaus
kholthoefer@t-online.de
Hi Klaus,
Evangeline is K11 so about the oldest I've come across on various Fora. Do you know of any earlier ones?
She was launched in August 1979. So like yours she has the chainplates bonded into the hull - a serious design flaw.

Regards
N&S
Not sure why the yard is puzzled by this construction method, it is quite common. Island Packet still uses it to this day. Irwin and lots of others in the 70's used it. They theory is that it makes the hull to chainplate attachment as strong as the hull, but in reality it is a cost savings measure, and does promote corrosion of the stainless steel. If I replaced with titanium chain plates (now not that much more than quality Stainless) I would consider just bonding them in again as you would not worry about oxygen deprived corrosion. But bets practice is to design some sort of attachment method that is not embedded, like installing knees. But you will want to run it by a navel architect. Exterior is a possibility as well.
 
#57 · (Edited)
Re: Frers F&C 44

Hi Klaus
We have not touched Evangelines Chainplates YET!

A previous post on this thread refered to a re-fit carried out by Great Island Boatworks in Maine on a sistership.
I looked at their website a couple of years ago and sure enough there was a good selection of pics showing the peeling of the topsides, removal of the old chainplates, fabrication and redesign of new replacement and fitting and fairing.
The work looked to be of a fantastic quality.

UNFORTUNATELY I have just checked on the up-dated website and these pics are no longer there!
In fact their site has been totally up-dated and only more recent re-fits are featured.

I can only suggest that you email them via their link, and ask very nicely if they could send you a link to the previous website or picture attachments.

Let me know how you get on.

Good luck and kind regards

Neil & Sue
 
#58 ·
Re: Frers F&C 44

Hello Neil and Sue,
thank you very much for your answer and assistance.
I already mailed to Great Island Boatworks and got no reply yet. A costumer from Europe will surely not pass the ocean for a refit.
The problem concerns mainly the older models with three chain plates for the main-mast on both sides, on which the material in the hull
is not really waterresistant and rust with the time.
Thank you once more for your help.
Kiind regards Klaus
 
#59 ·
Re: Frers F&C 44

Hi Klaus,
Evangeline is K11 so about the oldest I've come across on various Fora. Do you know of any earlier ones?
She was launched in August 1979. So like yours she has the chainplates bonded into the hull - a serious design flaw.

Quite agree about not crossing the Atlantic for the work but if they (GIBW) would let you see the pictures I just thought they would be very useful to yourself and certainly useful to another repair yard in Europe.

I monitor the slight bulges where the chain plates are on a regular basis but as Evangeline has been out for our re-fit for 3 years ( West system decks, new betamarine engine and hydraulics, new rig, electrics, plumbing etc. etc...........)
Until we get her sailing again this summer we can only pray that there is still plenty of strength there , as we cannot afford the costs required or the interior damage that would result in order to get access from the inside.

WHEN we have to replace them I would think seriously about mounting external 'strap' type traditional chainplates through-bolted to internal pads. I think that done properly with a horizontal spreader to space them out from the topsides and toerail and to counteract the tumblehome in the topsides would look OK and in-keeping with the now 'traditional' look of the F&C so the old chainplates could stay in and just be cut off flush with the deck.
The above may be a bit difficult to understand but I could knock up a quick sketch if that would help you.

The downside would be the loss of sheeting angle for overlapping foresails.
But not racing anyway and gentlemen never go to windward!!??

Regards
N&S
 
#60 ·
Re: Frers F&C 44

Hello Neil & Sue, As far as I have heard "Fjord VIII" from 1978 is the oldest grp one and was former owned by the Frers family.
You can find the boat on the internet because it is offered by the Broker Jose Frers.
Like you, I had already replaced nearly everything on the boat including teak deck and toerail in former years.
I am not shure about the necessity of a chain plate reconstruction. Bulges can only be seen up high out of water and did not change over the years. Two holes through the laminate to the steal structure revealed rust in the upper region , not in the lower.
In the end I prefer a perfect reconstruction with rigg change to the later models. That means only one chain plate for the main mast at each side and an additional forestay. Very important is a change of the passing through the deck. The old system is never leakproof.
I wish you good luck with your idea, but the delamination would not be solved.
Regards Klaus
 
#61 ·
Re: Frers F&C 44

Good Evening Klaus
From your last post, do I infer that some previous boats had been built in Wood? That's news to me, you obviously have greater knowledge of the marque. Do you know what 'K' number the boat you mentioned has?
Do you think that it would be a good idea to set up a small stand- alone website for all F&C 44 owners? I certainly do.
It would be nice to have a map with pins to show how widespread our beloved boats are, And what a forum to share our joint knowledge on!

We were at one time in touch with Thomas in Texas via email but lost all data regarding this .
you can contact us directly on neilcotton2011@hotmail.co.uk
any other owners still watching this thread please feel free to contact. But no time wasters please as we have a re-fit going on!
Regards
N&S
 
#63 ·
Re: Frers F&C 44

Hello everyone. I have owned # 44 TARITA. Chainplates work has been successfully carried out under German Frers (h) supervision at the Yacht Club Argentino, at F & C44 Samarkanda. At this moment a new teka is being installed on the whole deck.

Greetings from Argentina.
Carlos Enrique Canay Bao
 
#64 ·
Re: Frers F&C 44

Hi there F&C 44 owners. Does anyone have knowledge of the boat for sale in Maramis Turkey? She is in rough shape, needs to have the teak deck removed, and a bunch of other repairs. I am a boatbuilder and looking to restore and go Blue water to NZL. Gathering info from the broker now but would love to hear from any of you about your experiences.

Kind regards. Brian Bennett
 
#66 · (Edited)
Re: Frers F&C 44

Hi there F&C 44 owners. Does anyone have knowledge of the boat for sale in Maramis Turkey? She is in rough shape, needs to have the teak deck removed, and a bunch of other repairs. I am a boatbuilder and looking to restore and go Blue water to NZL. Gathering info from the broker now but would love to hear from any of you about your experiences.

Kind regards. Brian Bennett
Met the owner & family(west Londoners) about 3 years ago in Turkey when he was on route to Marmaris,
he must be ill or died because he was well into this boat and talked to me about how he bought her in S.America and sailed her across Atlantic with his family. They were finished Cruising & he asked me if i knew a broker i advised peter in Marmaris.She is currently at yacht marina uncovered leaking water through decks that have penetrated wood panelling and made stains.
I don't know if she will go through another rainy Marmaris winter/spring well.
the asking price has been reduced to £35k but with leaky deck work,chain plates, interior woodwork etc its not looking a viable project.
 
#65 ·
Re: Frers F&C 44

I was checking for the ship in Marmaris and I was informed that I would have to remove the teak and make it again, or with another wood. There are some 44 who have taken the medera but for me the boat is no longer the traditional one. It is true that it is a very expensive job.
When the teka is not given due care, the leaks begin and that is where the problem of the chain plates comes up. ALWAYS around the same ones you have to remove sealing products and redo the work. Saludos. Carlos
 
#67 ·
Re: Frers F&C 44

Hi Jim,
I read your post on Sailnet about chain plates replacement on the F&C44 I am considering purchasing a F&C 44 that need chain plate replacement. What is the cost involved? I am pretty good at fiberglassing and wondering how much work is involved.
Thanks,
Charles Guggenheim
831-238-5393
 
#70 ·
I have been tasked with moving a F&C 44; beautiful boat but the drive train isn't working. Engine starts, I can feel her going in gear, but the hydraulic pump (oil level full) isn't doing anything (motor isn't turning shaft). Does anyone have documentation on this drive train we can start with? We're doing "blind" troubleshooting right now. Thanks in advance, scott@chardonnayboatworks.com
Hello... F&C 44' Owner in Jacksonville, FL-- preparing for Pacific crossing in near future... We have a MeWe group for boat owners... Scott-- I'd like to know how you resolved this pump issue. Sounds like the shift controller might be worn out from the sounds of it-- as I had issues with mine once upon a time....

Cheers,

Skipper T
Hull#
K-22
 
#71 ·
Hello everyon, My name is Alain and I recently bought F&C44 Hull K-60, apparently the last one… built in 1990. Previously under the name of KIKITU, in Brazil. Does anyone have infos about previous owners? My k-60 seems very diferent as other… double spreaders mast, fixed Scheel keel shallow dratt of 1.75m - 5,9ft… also looking for the sail plan…
 
#72 ·
Hello there.... 'Skipper T' here in Florida.... They made a few fixed keels for racing... We call them F&C Sloops... As mentioned above there is a MeWe Group for F&C 44' sailboats... There are just a small handful of us left that are still using the boats and sailing them... They are one of the last true blue water boats out there...

As far as double spreaders--- -yeah that is normal for the single masted sloop... The Ketch rigged ones have a smaller split-rig sail plan that is balanced with the mizzen mast. It makes for a super stable ride in rough seas... I can vouch for this!!

Post a few Photos of your boat here or on the group MeWe group if you like?

Cheers,

Skipper T
 
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