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Discussion starter · #5,461 · (Edited)
Bob Perry 60ft designed Yacht finds some great new owners

A 10 year old Bob Perry aluminium design built in Europe by Jachtbouw Folmer....

....has found some great new owners, a German couple ( Nathalie MĂĽller e Michael Wnuknow) with two kids, that have meet at sea and have being travelling together for the last decade, first on a steel boat, the Iron Lady and now on Marlin, a Bob Perry design, that is doing now what was designed to do in first place.

The boat has won a new live and looks better than new.

They are a quite famous in Germany with a published book and a blog that has been many times presented on the "Yacht" German magazine one of the the biggest in Europe.

Das Buch: Sieben Jahre lang um die Welt - Panorama*|*YACHT.DE
Blog*|*YACHT.DE
SY Marlin

Some photos of the boat and the family:





















 
Re: Bob Perry 60ft designed Yacht finds some great new owners

It is weird to have the genoa reefed if you have a jib on another furler...

The Sydney GTS43 is a blast. I am waiting for the 37 that fits me better!
 
German YACHT magazine tested the SF3600 at 15-20kn: The had 7,1kn at 40° true, over 10 at 90°, 11,5 at 130° and 8,5 at 180...
 
Discussion starter · #5,464 · (Edited)
Aluyacht AY 480

We have already talked about the AY 480, the Italian aluminum voyage boat, one that shares some of the characteristics of the previous 60ft aluminum cruiser even if with a different keel and an overall lighter boat.



It is a Zerbinati design and the boat has an interesting story. It started to be a Dudley Dix design and then was bettered in many ways by Zerbinati.


















An interesting movie about the building techniques used and with some images of the boat sailing. Not for all since it is in Italian, but the ones that don't understand can have a better look at the boat anyway:


Naucat - nautical magazine :: EN :: Sailing Boats :: Cruiser :: AluYacht 480

Aluyacht - Italian Aluminium Yach

(for more information use the search thread engine)
 
Discussion starter · #5,465 · (Edited)
New A35

The hull is the same but the changes are so many that this is truly a MkII, a new version.

One that is not visible is the deck and cockpit, alright we can see that the cabin is different but we cannot see that they are made using an infusion system (it was by injection) and that allowed to save a lot of weight that went almost all to ballast that is more substantial then before giving it a bigger RM (the boat as a very big B/D ratio).

The draft is bigger with 2.20m and rudder and keel were revised. The rudder is really deep and the keel has been perfected for IRC rating. Probably they will offer another version for the Transaquadra with a torpedo keel and two rudders.

The boat can have two wheels or a tiller and in that case the traveler changes position going aft.

The rigging was completely revised. They show on the movie the old boat and if you stop the movie you can see the considerable differences. It will remain a boat that can be sailed with a crew or solo.

And for last but not least, in what regards cruising the boat offers a decent storage on the cockpit, more storage inside and a much better interior, a very good one for such a high performance boat.

The price is a nice one, taking into consideration the performances: 155 000 euros (including 20% VAT), price for the Paris boat show.

 
Discussion starter · #5,466 · (Edited)
Elan 360













The new Elan 360 is not an entirely new boat, it shares its hull with the previous version, the 350. That could be bad news but not in this case. The 350 was a great sailing boat and its hull is still a very modern and fast one. The 360 is just a better and improved 350 and that's good news.

The 360 is slightly lighter, has a better interior, a nicer cabin design and has a S version that is a considerably improved boat: 6% lighter with an epoxy hull, stronger laminated bulkheads and lighter furniture.


SPECIFICATION ELAN 360

Length overall ......................10,60 m | 34'9'' ft
Hull length........................... 10,60 m | 34'9'' ft
Length at waterline............... 10,10 m | 33'1'' ft
Beam.................................. 3,50 m | 11'6'' ft
Draft (standard / performance) 1,50 m / 2,15 m / 2,35 m | 4'9'' / 7'' / 7'8'' ft
Displacement........................ 5.350 kg | 11.794 lbs
Ballast (standard / performance) 1385 kg / 1300 kg | 3.053 lbs / 2.866 lbs
Water capacity..................... 175 l | 42,2 US gal
Fuel capacity........................ 75 l | 19,8 US gal
Engine.................................. 21,1 kW / 27,3 HP
Mainsail................................. 35,91 m2/ 386'4'' sq ft
Jib........................................ 29,68 m2 | 319'4'' sq ft
Gennaker............................... 110 m2 | 1.184' sq ft

Boat design category CE A
Design Humphreys Yacht Design & Elan Design Team

Prices:

http://www.argolis-yacht.com/pdf/Pricelist_E360_01092013.pdf
 
Re: New A35

The hull is the same but the changes are so many that this is truly a MkII, a new version.

One that is not visible is the deck and cockpit, alright we can see that the cabin is different but we cannot see that they are made using an infusion system (it was by injection) and that allowed to save a lot of weight that went almost all to ballast that is more substantial then before giving it a bigger RM (the boat as a very big B/D ratio).

The draft is bigger with 2.20m and rudder and keel were revised. The rudder is really deep and the keel has been perfected for IRC rating. Probably they will offer another version for the Transaquadra with a torpedo keel and two rudders.

The boat can have two wheels or a tiller and in that case the traveler changes position going aft.

The rigging was completely revised. They show on the movie the old boat and if you stop the movie you can see the considerable differences. It will remain a boat that can be sailed with a crew or solo.

And for last but not least, in what regards cruising the boat offers a decent storage on the cockpit, more storage inside and a much better interior, a very good one for such a high performance boat.

The price is a nice one, taking into consideration the performances: 155 000 euros (including 20% VAT), price for the Paris boat show.
This is probably the boat I've been waiting for, particularly after I was able to get the grand tour of the current A35 last October. I'd want it in Transquadra configuration, with twin rudders / strut and torpedo bulb keel, and probably with twin wheels rather than a tiller (though would want to see the boat in person first, before making that decision).

On the other hand, even without VAT (being in the U.S.), I estimate a new A35 would set me back about $200K USD, with sails, NKE pilot and electronics, at an exchange rate of 1.36:1. That's a bit unnerving for a 35 ft. boat, but comparable to a J/109 and less than a J/111, not to mention more value than both, in my opinion. Indeed, it is difficult for me to imagine not being completely happy with a new A35, even when compared to the new RM 980, the Django 7.70 and the Malango 888 (or anything in that length range from Elan).

My only hesitation would be an abiding lust for the new Dehler 38 - that extra 3 feet and corresponding interior volume would probably make my wife happier, though I'm hoping when she sees the A35 in person she will see what a big 35 ft. boat it actually is, compared to, say, the J/109 (which made her nervous about offshore passagemaking).

Time to get out a calculator and do some complex financial mathematics. :D
 
Discussion starter · #5,468 · (Edited)
Re: New A35

This is probably the boat I've been waiting for, particularly after I was able to get the grand tour of the current A35 last October. I'd want it in Transquadra configuration, with twin rudders / strut and torpedo bulb keel, and probably with twin wheels rather than a tiller (though would want to see the boat in person first, before making that decision).
......
My only hesitation would be an abiding lust for the new Dehler 38 - that extra 3 feet and corresponding interior volume would probably make my wife happier, though I'm hoping when she sees the A35 in person she will see what a big 35 ft. boat it actually is, compared to, say, the J/109 (which made her nervous about offshore passagemaking).

Time to get out a calculator and do some complex financial mathematics. :D
I bet that price is the one for the standard version not the one with a deeper keel and more sail (R), Anyway you can expect a version with two rudders and bulbed keel to be more expensive.

Regarding the Dehler 38 it is about the same, I mean even more the difference between a basic boat and a really fast one. Anyway that difference in LWL would be very important and the Dehler would be probably faster except on a transat.

For racing I am sure the A35 is much better. If your idea is to race solo or with a short crew the best version is the one with the tiller. With crew, the best is the one with the two wheels. On Archambault they developed for solo sailing a system they call the satellite that is something with a spherical shape and all commands there (lines). That sat. stays on the middle of the cockpit on the floor, near the feet of the tiller man.

Kind of surprise me that you don't see the JPK 38 as an option, if you are considering those two boats. You would not get good results on compensated but would be arriving with the first, specially on offshore races.

For racing and cruising probably regarding price a better solution would be a top Salona 38. You can get an IBC boat (top boat) almost for the price that costs a basic Dehler 38 and a Salona 38 IBC can win at the highest level.

If you plan to race the boat on US one of the things you can explore is the potential interest of the different brands in having a boat racing there. If they are really interested they can make a big discount on the boat.

Another option is to look at the possibility of being a dealer in US for Salona or JPK. I don't think they have one and they may be interested...if you are too:)
 
Re: New A35

I bet that price is the one for the standard version not the one with a deeper keel and more sail (R), Anyway you can expect a version with two rudders and bulbed keel to be more expensive.

Regarding the Dehler 38 it is about the same, I mean even more the difference between a basic boat and a really fast one. Anyway that difference in LWL would be very important and the Dehler would be probably faster except on a transat.

For racing I am sure the A35 is much better. If your idea is to race solo or with a short crew the best version is the one with the tiller. With crew, the best is the one with the two wheels. On Archambault they developed for solo sailing a system they call the satellite that is something with a spherical shape and all commands there (lines). That sat. stays on the middle of the cockpit on the floor, near the feet of the tiller man.

Kind of surprise me that you don't see the JPK 38 as an option, if you are considering those two boats. You would not get good results on compensated but would be arriving with the first, specially on offshore races.

For racing and cruising probably regarding price a better solution would be a top Salona 38. You can get an IBC boat (top boat) almost for the price that costs a basic Dehler 38 and a Salona 38 IBC can win at the highest level.

If you plan to race the boat on US one of the things you can explore is the potential interest of the different brands in having a boat racing there. If they are really interested they can make a big discount on the boat.

Another option is to look at the possibility of being a dealer in US for Salona or JPK. I don't think they have one and they may be interested...if you are too:)
Very good points, as usual, Paulo. I really like the JPK 38FC but price is a problem - €153.000 / $208,000 - so all up cost close to €175.000 / $240,000. That would be a considerable stretch for me. But perhaps with twin rudders and racing keel the A35 would end up costing as much. Of course, that's assuming buying new; I think, like you, I would look for a previously owned model and save some money. The Salona 38 is a nice boat, but again priced new out of my budget (~$238K / €176K). Imagine an IBC version is even more.

My intention is to race and cruise single and doublehanded. Perhaps friends or family might come aboard, but I'm not counting on it, from past experience. But I have close friends in the yacht racing fraternity who would be more than happy to do a DH Transquadra or Bermuda 1-2, etc. I suspect I will barely have resources to do things like that, when the time comes, let alone support a fully crewed racing program.

But, as we've discussed previously, if I only have to think of myself, then suddenly the Pogo 30 looks very nice. In fact, even a Pogo 3 would probably do the trick for my solo racing / cruising dreams. In the past I've let my concerns about what the wife wants influence my boat purchases, and that didn't turn out well. I shouldn't make the same mistake again, if I can help it.

In fact, I'm very eager to see the first Pogo 3 (which I thought was going to be shown at the Paris Nautic this month, but haven't seen any photos or news). That may very well end up being the best option for me. A friend / sailing colleague, here in Long Island Sound, purchased a Pogo 2 (U.S. built) and has been having a great time racing it and day sailing with his family. If I'm smart, I'll take a lesson from him. I've never sailed a Series boat (only Protos) but I've been aboard one of the Spanish-built Zeros and it seemed to have sufficient room for a minimalist like myself.

For now, just trying to survive the snow. :D
 
Salona has/did have a dealer in the PNW (Pacific North West)
Washington state and Vancouver
They were represented in Seattle's boat show
Didn't have a boat, booth only by the in-water show
 
Discussion starter · #5,471 ·
Re: New A35

Very good points, as usual, Paulo. I really like the JPK 38FC but price is a problem - €153.000 / $208,000 - so all up cost close to €175.000 / $240,000. That would be a considerable stretch for me. But perhaps with twin rudders and racing keel the A35 would end up costing as much. Of course, that's assuming buying new; I think, like you, I would look for a previously owned model and save some money. The Salona 38 is a nice boat, but again priced new out of my budget (~$238K / €176K). Imagine an IBC version is even more.

My intention is to race and cruise single and doublehanded. Perhaps friends or family might come aboard, but I'm not counting on it, from past experience. But I have close friends in the yacht racing fraternity who would be more than happy to do a DH Transquadra or Bermuda 1-2, etc. I suspect I will barely have resources to do things like that, when the time comes, let alone support a fully crewed racing program.

But, as we've discussed previously, if I only have to think of myself, then suddenly the Pogo 30 looks very nice. In fact, even a Pogo 3 would probably do the trick for my solo racing / cruising dreams. In the past I've let my concerns about what the wife wants influence my boat purchases, and that didn't turn out well. I shouldn't make the same mistake again, if I can help it.

In fact, I'm very eager to see the first Pogo 3 (which I thought was going to be shown at the Paris Nautic this month, but haven't seen any photos or news). That may very well end up being the best option for me. A friend / sailing colleague, here in Long Island Sound, purchased a Pogo 2 (U.S. built) and has been having a great time racing it and day sailing with his family. If I'm smart, I'll take a lesson from him. I've never sailed a Series boat (only Protos) but I've been aboard one of the Spanish-built Zeros and it seemed to have sufficient room for a minimalist like myself.

For now, just trying to survive the snow. :D
That seems a bit to vague tome. If you are thinking in a mini racer and not properly for doing mini-racing why not having a maxi-mini:D with better performance and a cruising interior?



Marée Haute - Django Ocean Race

I think it is inside your budget and these guys have racing experience and now how to make a race boat. They started doing minis and doing mini racing. They also make a mini racer.

This boat can be classified as A boat and you can legally sail offshore on it if you come to Europe. The interior is quite good for a racing boat since it is the same one used on the cruising version.

With 1500kg and 51m2 of sail upwind and 120m2 downwind this one should fly:D







Regards

Paulo
 
Discussion starter · #5,472 ·
Salona has/did have a dealer in the PNW (Pacific North West)
Washington state and Vancouver
They were represented in Seattle's boat show
Didn't have a boat, booth only by the in-water show
You mean this year?

Maybe they have again. They had a dealer that sold a single boat in years, a 37. The owner is a member of this forum and says very well about the boat but I had heard that Salona had given up at least with that dealer.

Regards

Paulo
 
Discussion starter · #5,473 · (Edited)
VK35 an Aluminium performance sailboat.

We had already talked about VK shipyard and design cabinet. The design Cabinet is Swedish but the boats are made in Poland and that allows for a very impressive price. They talk about 116 000 euros. That is an incredibly good price for a boat like this. That's true that I never managed to see the interior (I hope that price includes one:D) and that raises some doubts.

The boat is very interesting and the structure is very effective since it is a a cylindrical one that minimizes weight and maximizes strength:



The hull design seems very nice to me:







The boat dimensions are very interesting:

VK35 Technical data

Length overall = 10,6m
Length at waterline = 10,45m
Beam overall = 3,5m
Beam at waterline = 2,6m
Draft = 2,17m
Displacement = 5160kg
Ballast = 1600kg
Engine M3.28 20kW (27.2hp)
Mainsail area = 38.5m2
Genoa area = 36.7m2
Spinnaker area = 110m2

This is a light boat with lots of sail area. This one will not only be a good cruising boat but also will do good in club racing. The interior layout is a bit odd. It has a small saloon and what looks like a small cabin only accessible by the outside trough a small hatch???.



The boat is on the water and it looks good. It is really a shame the lack of creativity in the cabin port lights. It is true that cylindrical structure raises some problems but they could have used less ports and bigger fixed rounded plexiglas panels giving more light to the interior and allowing a more modern look to the boat.







 
Re: A35/Dehler 32 pricing

I have the A35 pricelist and a complete boat with normal cruising gear, electronics and sails is well above €220000 and appr. €40000 more expensive than a Dehler 38 equipped likewise. Pretty stiff.

Anders
 
Discussion starter · #5,475 ·
Re: A35/Dehler 32 pricing

I have the A35 pricelist and a complete boat with normal cruising gear, electronics and sails is well above €220000 and appr. €40000 more expensive than a Dehler 38 equipped likewise. Pretty stiff.

Anders
Not fair to compare the A35 with the cruising Dehler 38. Even the more cruising version of the A35 has similar building specs with the Dehler 38R, not with the less expensive version. The Dehler 38R is hugely more expensive than the cruising Dehler.

Not saying that the cruising Dehler is not an overall better cruising boat than the A35, probably it is but in what regards racing it is miles apart.

Regards

Paulo
 
Well, Paul, you say that the VK35 is an interesting, quoting the data

The boat dimensions are very interesting:

VK35 Technical data

Length overall = 10,6m
Length at waterline = 10,45m
Beam overall = 3,5m
Beam at waterline = 2,6m
Draft = 2,17m
Displacement = 5160kg
Ballast = 1600kg
Engine M3.28 20kW (27.2hp)
Mainsail area = 38.5m2
Genoa area = 36.7m2
Spinnaker area = 110m2

This is a light boat with lots of sail area. This one will not only be a good cruising boat but also will do good in club racing.
Which is probably is.

But then, I remember the data for the 20+ year old Dehler38 (no, not the new one):

LOA 38 ft (11,40 m)
Beam 3,78 m
Draft 2,05 m
Displacement 5500 kg
keel 49% (2800 kg)
Main 40.5 sqm
genua 1 41 sqm

There been some discussion in this thread what is to be considered "light", as "light" is something new, and very special. It is not. This old Dehler is not even minimalistic. (there are more examples from this period)

/Jaramaz
 
Discussion starter · #5,478 · (Edited)
Well, Paul, you say that the VK35 is an interesting, quoting the data

Which is probably is.

But then, I remember the data for the 20+ year old Dehler38 (no, not the new one):

LOA 38 ft (11,40 m)
Beam 3,78 m
Draft 2,05 m
Displacement 5500 kg
keel 49% (2800 kg)
Main 40.5 sqm
genua 1 41 sqm

There been some discussion in this thread what is to be considered "light", as "light" is something new, and very special. It is not. This old Dehler is not even minimalistic. (there are more examples from this period)
/Jaramaz
The Dehler 38 is a 1987 model and yes a very light one for its time. The VK 35 weights several hundreds of kilos less and can only be considered light for a 35ft aluminium boat. It is difficult to make small aluminium boats light. The weight in the aluminium building is not like in fiberglass proportional to size. You can make a 40ft or a 45ft aluminium boat proportionally lighter.

Talking about light boats in modern terms, like the Dehler 38 was light in its days, we would be talking about a JPK 38 (5000kgs) or about the Pogo 10.50 (3600kg) but as we saw here many times the announced weight is not the real sailboat weight but the weight the designer thought it was possible for that boat.

Considering that a modern Dehler 38 weights 7000kg that difference is hard to justify or understand since the new 38 Dehler is a faster boat.

Regards

Paulo
 
Discussion starter · #5,480 ·
Sunfast 3600

German YACHT magazine tested the SF3600 at 15-20kn: The had 7,1kn at 40° true, over 10 at 90°, 11,5 at 130° and 8,5 at 180...
That compares with what the French had measured:

15K trw downwind with spy asymmetric - 8.9K speed

15K trw 38Âş of trw - 7.2K

The speed downwind seems to be a bit worse but the French sailed with 15K ahd the Germans with 15/20K . The boat starts to plan with about 14K of wind so those extra 5K of wind seems to be all that is needed for the boat to enter double digit speeds.

Regarding the boat design criteria a nice explanation by Erik Stromberg one of the main man from Jeanneau in what regards sail design and product specifications. Erik is also a good sailor and the last time I saw him he was linked to Jeanneau America. For what I understand there are good chances that Jeanneau decides to commercialize the SF 3600 in the USA.


Also another movie showing around the SF 3600:


and just some movies with the SF3200. The SF3600 will not only be faster but by what Erik says a better boat in crewed racing:




 
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