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Extreme Cold

14K views 109 replies 24 participants last post by  n2ubn 
#1 · (Edited)
We chose to stay on Kentucky Lake this winter because, according to the weather history, it's not usually a place with extreme cold.. Not often in the "really cold" range.

Now it seems we are facing the coldest extremes in 20 years here on the lake with subzero temps.

Woke up yesterday to snow and ice. Sunday it's supposed to drop down to single digits and stays there until Tuesday...

Of course our sailboat seems to lack any sort of insulation and the admiral has a smoking addiction and every time she opens the hatch to smoke, every bit of heat we have goes out and is replaced with winter cold.

Fortunately the temps will be back in the mid to high 40's by Thursday.

This photo is from Jan 2

 
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#40 ·
I find anything other than a propane cookstove scary....
a coupe of years ago i ditched my stinky dickinson pacific and went with electric space heaters. Not a problem if I am hooked up to shorepower.
Does me no good if i am out and about :(

The electric heat did nothing for condensation really, i was having major issues with keeping enough air moving. to the point i would even hesitate making coffee. for fear of STEAM! you just back away from that rice cooker mate.

I went through alot of heaters... some died some i just didnt like.
the one i found the best was the vornado and the little ceramic heater made by holmes "not the plastic one the metal one" . they are compact and pump out lots of warm air.... the oil filled one i found worked ok if i put a box fan behind it.. but that is alot of space on a 30 foot boat.

This winter i got me a wallas dt30, its a little bigger than a breadbox and it works great "so far"... condensation is a thing of the past. I burn about a gallon of diesel a
day when its 30f out and around 2 gallons when its 0...

i have no insulation to speak of. some of that mylar bubble wrap in my cabinets and in
the v-berth.
i make cover every winter with pvc pipe frame and cover it with reinforced plastic, it saves that shoveling hassel, waking up to 2 feet of snow in your cockpit sux.

it will hold up to gale force winds with no problem... 60mph+ long drawn out gusts are common here in southeast alaska on a weekly basis. it feels that way sometimes...
the major disadvantage is that i am like robby benson "the boy in the plastic boat bubble" and chained to the dock all winter.. some of the best sailing days are anytime of year.
i have a plan to fix this problem in the coming year :)

this year is nice, warm and rainy around 35f with lows at night around 25... I can't imagine how those down south must
feel being tossed into the deep freeze out of nowhere.
 
#41 ·
I find anything other than a propane cookstove scary....
Our alcohol stove isn't pressurized and we like it. Propane scares me a bit on a boat. We leave our blower running whenever the propane heater is on.

The electric heat did nothing for condensation really, i was having major issues with keeping enough air moving. to the point i would even hesitate making coffee. for fear of STEAM! you just back away from that rice cooker mate.
We seem to have less condensation with electric than when we have to do propane. We examined all the heaters and their strengths and weaknesses and determined a 1250/1500 radiant heater was best for our needs. Works very good down to about the mid 20's and then we have to pull out the propane heater.

This winter i got me a wallas dt30, its a little bigger than a breadbox and it works great "so far"... condensation is a thing of the past. I burn about a gallon of diesel a
day when its 30f out and around 2 gallons when its 0...
I have a lot of experience in diesel heaters and it hasn't been good. I had one that came with my Thermoking APU and I had issues with it. I will never ever buy an Espar. The last company I worked for had them in their trucks and they never worked and apparently they are hard to get parts for. AND that company was a service rep for the company and still had major issues. It's just too much money to pay out for something I've had such crappy results with in the past. When they do work, they will roast you out, but that's when and if they work.
 
#43 ·
I will have the fear of coming home and wallas heater being belly up for some time.
i had the same fear years ago when i bought my first toyotomi oilmiser heater for my mobile home.
if i get 3 to 5 years of trouble free work of out it, i will be happy.

i spent many nights looking for what everyone had to say about these diesel heaters,
and talking to a few on the docks and at the chandler
i ruled out the espar pretty fast...
most people liked there webasto and there wallas...
wallas installed easy... drilling then giant holes 80mm for the air hoses was the worst part.

cooking... i go electric, hot plate . crockpot toaster oven...
when i'm out in the real world i have the handy coleman double burner stove...
and the ever reliable BBQ grill.

Got wood ? I have been thinking about wood, not really as a primary heating but as a back up. the problem is storage.. wood is big on a small boat.
I do find charcoal briquettes really nice. they put out about 500 btu each and come in good smelling flavors lol... if you have some crappy smelling wood. say from loading pallets, toss in a few hickory or mesquite bricks. your neighbors will think you are eating steak tonight and not ramen noodles.

I am pretty new to living aboard, 2 years so far. but i am loving every minute of it. 25 degrees this morning with a light dusting of snow.
Remote start... i must get remote start for the car. lol...
 
#47 ·
cooking... i go electric, hot plate . crockpot toaster oven...
when i'm out in the real world i have the handy coleman double burner stove...
and the ever reliable BBQ grill.
We just recently bought an electric skillet as an alternative to the expensive denatured alcohol at about 2 gals a month. It was a great investment. We went a whole month on only 1 gal.
 
#45 ·
Pearson 796. We lived-aboard for 5 years up in Toronto where the water gets hard for 5 months of the year. over the winter, the first thin you should do is remove the rig and build a frame over the boat and get it shrinkwrapped with clear. turns the whole boat into a green house! then grab some black cheaper grabage bags and some fiberglass pink and lay them on the deck and coach roof to create an insulating blanket! really makes a big difference!
 
#50 ·
That's the crazy part, this area of the country RARELY gets as cold as it has been. We would not be here if this was normal. We would have gone much further south down the river.

For example, it's supposed to be 58 tomorrow here and only get down to 40 tonight.

We aren't cold in the cabin, it's just the condensation issues that are driving us crazy.
 
#46 ·
We are in the water in the C&D canal, just off the Delaware Bay. We live aboard about half time.

Actually we have two steel sailboats, one is on the hard right now. We sail in Newfoundland and both boats have Espars and kero bulkhead heaters, with proper chimneys.

Our experience with Espar has been very good. The D4 has kept the boat quite nice down to lower single digits. But I close off the aft cabin during the day when real cold. On the worst night we also ran the kero bulkhead heater in the aft cabin, it got right toasty.

We still have condensation issues, frost on the ports, etc.

Boat was froze in hard.

But we were happy and cozy.
 
#51 ·
Yes and no.

Everywhere except the V-berth, were we actually get ice on the walls, has a type of double hull.

I'm sure someone will know what I am trying to explain. So, we get condensation in the storage spaces that separate the hull from the cabin.

But in the Vberth, there is only the hull and the hull sweats a lot in these temp extremes. Then when we turn the heat down at night, the hull freezes over in the Vberth.
 
#56 ·
I have been doing some research on dehumidifying without electricity. I have found a few things and are going to test them out. I found a site that sells a plastic bucket with replaceable "crystals" suspended in the bucket. Sounds like the crystals absorb the water to saturation and drip into the base of the bucket, then you need to drain and replace crystals. As it turns out the crystals are calcium chloride (ice melt). Now I found other forums that talked about hanging rock salt in burlap a bag over a bucket and collecting water in the same manor as the store bought one. this is only good for 50% humidity and up. But you are looking at 100% at the envelope of the boat. What I am proposing to do is get bag and ice melter and hang high as possible and put 5 gal bucket under.

I am also pondering a glycol filled closed loop exchanger for winter humidification by convection. No power.

I'll let you know how I make out.
 
#59 ·
It sucks waking up to the corner of your pillow frozen to the hull.
i still have to be carefull and not leave a pile of blankets laying on a cold surface, it will end up damp. even with the temp being 70 in the cabin with the wallas heater.

If the harbor freezes up hard... what are the worries involved with that?
I have never had to deal with that.. only an inch of ice at the most for a few days..
but i did have worries of thru hulls freezing and maybe cracking.
 
#60 ·
It sucks waking up to the corner of your pillow frozen to the hull.
I thought we were the only ones that suffered that problem. That's pretty aggravating.

If the harbor freezes up hard... what are the worries involved with that?
I have never had to deal with that.. only an inch of ice at the most for a few days..
but i did have worries of thru hulls freezing and maybe cracking.
When I fiberglass boat gets hard frozen in the ice, there is a possibility of stressing the hull, or at worse actually crushing it. While I don't know if this is valid fear or not, but it's very stressful to be frozen in.

If I can prevent it with a D-Icer, then I certainly want to.
 
#64 · (Edited)
I have never had to use a wooden plug on a thru hull fitting. I am adding these tales for some insight on wooden plugs or the use of them. Does any one else have thoughts or tales ?
A man would need to use great care if you are below the water line and trying to drive a plug in. NO BOAT IS WORTH A LIFE. if you are miles from land risk factors change. The loss of the boat might be a huge loss and change the odds of making it. If you are at the dock the game is all about you. Maybe the dock lines would hold her up?
I can tell you as a pipefitter I have used a wooden plug to stop a 2" inch opening off an 8" pipe with glycol/water mix at about 40 psi the nipple was broken fitting off by a fork truck. The factory needed to run until shift change a cut and weld could be made.
The plug was drove into the hole with the pumps off. With the pumps off their was very little head pressure. I was expecting it to shoot out like a cannon and the mess to spread but it held.
I have changed a 3/4" inch thermal well at the basement three floors down on a 6" condenser water pipe. This was beyond wet :laugher No garden hose has that kind of pressure. It was chilling. I am still amazed that I was able to thread in a new one. If I failed on that one It would have cost a day or so but everyone new the risk. I would not have used a plug We had made the decision to open the main drain If I failed. Picked the day and did it.
If you had to have a reaction on a boat . I am not sure you would have time even if the plug was on a string next to the opening with a hammer at the ready.
Good day, Lou
 
#73 ·
Sprayed closed cell anti microbial insulation foam works. But shaving it to "size/fit" is a b,,, Yet worth it! it comes in two five gallon pressurized tanks!

I always sailed in the winter if the ice did not preclude me. Have woke up many times in ice,,,no problems, winch in your anchor through the inch of ice! As you motor forwards,,then back out till you reach, the inlet. Li/NY

OH! HUGE THING! VENTILATION IS B> I USE AGA Mask.
 
#77 ·
I can see one minor drawback to H2Out marine products:

"How to regenerate your H2Out Dehumidifier:
Simply place the unit in an oven* for two-three hours at 300°F (149°C). - See more at: http://h2out.com/faqs#sthash.tawcp1wL.dpuf"

So who is going to run the oven on their boat for 3 hours every day? In order to...drive the moisture out of the H2Out and back into the cabin of the boat?

Just seems like an electric heater (goldenrod) or ventilated heater (external combustion) is a way more effective way to go.
 
#78 ·
Apparently we had an ice storm last night. It was raining a good bit in the afternoon and all of a sudden the temps dropped and left a thick layer of ice on everything.

We have over an inch of ice in places on the boat. The expected temps in the next few days, aren't going to be enough to melt the ice I don't think.

We chiseled the ice off our vehicle and attempted the snow/ice covered hill out of the slip parking. I barely made it up the hill and as steep and narrow as that drive is, I would not attempt to come back down it.

As for the boat, I wish the weather man had been able to predict this so I could have covered the cockpit of the boat. The hatch was frozen shut this morning and it took a bit of work to get out.
 
#80 ·
When I was living aboard (Toronto winters). Some people would hang a 60 watt bulb and fixture next to each through hull to keep then nice and warm over the winter! I did this for a couple of winters and then realized that this technique wasn't necessary with the bubblers in our marina! The system they used had massive compressors and the entire slip would stay ice free.
 
#81 ·
Even if the slip stays Ice Free due to any kind of bubbling system, (air, agitation, ect) the thru hulls will still freeze if the temp in the bilge gets below freezing.

The light bulb idea is OK, as long as the bulb doesn't burn out, but it's not foolproof.

The most effective way I've found is to pour vegetable oil into these (drains, or inlets, or whatever), and close off the valve while you're doing this. The oil will displace any water in the thru hull fitting, and since oil is lighter than water, it won't seep out the bottom, below the valve. It will actually coagulate within the thru hull fitting as the temp gets colder, and provide a nice sort of soft plug while keeping water out of there. Also, if vegetable oil is used, you won't be accused of polluting the marina like a normal oil or gas spill.
 
#85 · (Edited)
No worries if you want to burn your boat down with using bulbs to heat in a confined space, CFLs, although generate no heat the integral ballasts do. And same goes of LEDs. You can put them closer to the sea cocks without as much risk of fire. Just a piont about the new wave of lighting and heat, I would never recommend using such a method.

Edit: IMHO, though that was a given.
 
#86 ·
No worries if you want to burn your boat down with using bulbs to heat in a confined space,
Can you cite an example where this actually happened?
 
#89 · (Edited)
About 20 yrs ago, winter bubbling became fairly popular at our little sail club in Michigan. Since we were concerned about members jury rigging goofy heating within their boats, we made a rule limiting on board electric usage to no more than 100 watts.

We designed cheap convection heaters using a light bulb, for those who desired a little air circulation around things like their engine block. These heaters consisted of a cheap porcelain light fixture (the kind you see in closets or basements) mounted to a slightly larger piece of thin plywood for stability. Then cut out top & bottom of a large juice can to place over the bulb, which acted like a chimney. This was simply held in place a couple inches above the plywood by 3 or 4 thin metal brackets, probably cut from other juice can material. Not sure if this part worked, but someone came up with the idea of painting the juice cans flat black in an effort to absorb more heat from the bulb. We also wired these with something like a 10ft cord, so users wouldn't be burdened with trying to self wire the fixtures, or use short cords whose connections might fall into bilge water.

The juice can also provided some protection for the light bulb in case someone accidentally knocked it over. The contraption cost less than $5 but it's effectiveness was always questionable.

The more apparent problem using electricity in a bilge, is the obvious danger from an unexpected spark. Guess what, Gasoline fumes are heavier than air, and even the smallest amount will find their way to the deepest areas of a bilge.

That's why all approved marine electrical equipment is certified as "Ignition Protected". Our little $5 heater contraptions certainly were NOT "Ignition Protected" and neither is anything else you can purchase at "Home Depot".
 
#90 · (Edited)
a cheap porcelain light fixture (the kind you see in closets
These are outlawed for closet use because of fires.

http://garages.about.com/od/closetstorageideas/qt/closet_lights_rules.htm

"Surface-mounted or recessed fixtures are both permitted, but exposed (uncovered) light bulbs are not. "

Has anyone ever had a hot bulb get wet? I have and they shatter before the element sparks/burns out. All it would take is one drop of condensation and some combustible bilge fumes.
 
#93 ·
Hi wattage, low wattage, specialty, halogen, many types of filament bulbs are still available and being manufactured.

But if you want to keep something warm, look for "heat tape" in the plumbing section. Or for infrared heat lamps (typically reflector spot type) in the store. The heat tape is designed to keep pipes from freezing up and there's no filament to burn out.

Incandescent bulbs are (were) cheap and convenient, but there are better ways to generate heat.
 
#96 · (Edited)
It can be used on engine piping, manufacture says up to 1-1/2" pipe. I would take that to mean with the low heat output, the heat will not penetrate very far. I would use armiflex insulation over heat tape wires and item being heated. http://www.emersonindustrial.com/en-us/documentcenter/EGSElectricalGroup/products_documents/heating_cables/residential_heating_cables/residential_pipe_tracing/freeze_free_cable_plugs/40210_005_r4_FF_specsheet_web.pdf

"How much heat can they take without burning up or becoming ruined."
Sorry I do not understand this question? How much heat can what take?

Sorry, I was mistaken that the heat tape I purchased has a GFI plug. It does not, but the heat tape does need to be plugged into a grounded GFI circuit.
 
#98 ·
Engine parts can reach extremely high temperatures, well above 100C on the exhaust manifold, and heat tape is not designed for anything near that. You'd have to contact the individual manufacturer to find out how much heat any product can withstand, but I wouldn't pout them on anything that you couldn't lay your palm on.
 
#100 ·
100C is not a problem for heat tape. Heat tape, depending on the type, working temps. ranges from 150 to 450 F and the jacket will do twice that. This can be an issue with plastic pipes. My wet exhaust hose is rated for 250 F.
 
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