SailNet Community banner
  • SailNet is a forum community dedicated to Sailing enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about sailing, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, repairs, reviews, maintenance, and more!

The Loss of The Alpha 42 "Be Good Too"

48K views 153 replies 29 participants last post by  CaptStephan 
#1 · (Edited)
I've started this thread (pulled from Jon's entry in the Rallies Gone Wrong thread) because this is going to be a very interesting story.

Here's the story told by Charlie Doane who is the Executive Editor of SAIL magazine (to which I subscribe) - and who was on board:

HELICOPTER EVACUATION: Abandoning Be Good Too

This incident is obviously going to raise a lot of questions regarding Aeroyacht's design and construction of the Alpha 42 - info for which can be found here:

AEROYACHT Alpha 42 catamaran - Aeroyacht

The "Be Good Too" was Hull No. 1. Ouch.

It appears that the most significant failure was the rudders, when the boat was apparently "pushed backward by a rogue wave". Interestingly, Charlie says this about the configuration of those rudders prior to this disaster:

We now set up the boat to motorsail itself in a fore-reaching configuration under just the double-reefed main (there was no third reef). We locked the helm off hard to port to keep her from rounding up and were making progress eastwards at 4-5 knots.
Hmm.

Lots of questions...
 
See less See more
#2 ·
This is only one side of the story, but if it's true (and I have no reason to doubt the narrator), These people made legitimate, serious attempts to save their vessel before dialing 911.

It does seem that they were a little light on "damage control equipment" and tools, with which they might have made more successful repairs, but really, what are you going to do about a bent rudder besides carry a spare rudder?

Mostly, I feel that they were screwed by crummy engineering, and crummy construction of their "new" boat.

Crummy rudder design.
Charging system failing on a new boat?
Engine fails to start on a new boat?
Starter shorts and fails on a new boat?
Self-tacking jib lead insufficient on a new boat?

I think a winter delivery was fraught with unnecessary risk, but they didn't seem to face apocalyptic conditions that would cause such a string of failures.
 
#6 ·
Actually, according to the website, there had been at least some sea trialing/shaking down of the boat prior to departure...

Alpha 01 attacks the ice - Aeroyacht

But I agree, this loss was to a large extent the result of decisions made before the boat ever left Liberty Landing... Always easy to say in hindsight, of course :)

Not that I was ever asked, but this would have been a delivery I would have passed on, or at least tried hard to convince the owners to consider 'modifying'... With so late a departure in what has been a very volatile and changeable winter so far, I'd try to talk them into simply going down the coast, and spending the winter in the Bahamas, instead... That would certainly be an ideal boat for it...

Or, at the very least, jumping off from Norfolk, or Morehead City, instead... Chances are the charging issue they had (which again, in hindsight, the consequences of which I think is greatly understated in Charlie's write-up) would have been exposed and remedied prior to setting off from further down the coast... I've posted numerous times here the link to Don Street's thoughts on the risk of shooting directly for the islands from further north, and the preference from jumping off from the Chesapeake or Morehead instead, and doing so in mid-January makes even less sense, to me...

However, such routing considerations expose, to me, one of the fundamental liabilities of a multihull for offshore, or for this passage late in the season, in particular... Namely, their inherent lack of weatherliness, and ability to make a COG as close to the wind as a more weatherly monohull...

So, once the determination that the BVIs were to be the destination, the skipper is put into a bit of a box, due to the limitations of the boat's inability to sail a high course to weather... In January, chances are that further on down the rhumb line, you're gonna encounter the winter trades sooner rather than later, and will be on port tack hard on the breeze for perhaps the last 500-600 miles of the trip, and quite possibly more... So, a departure from the Chesapeake, or south of Hatteras - while being considerably safer and more prudent in terms of waiting for a decent window, and getting across the Stream quickly - could make it very problematic to lay the Virgin Islands on port tack... Hell, on a boat like that, leaving from Morehead/Beaufort, you might be lucky to fetch Luperon, much less San Juan... :)

Whatever, this was clearly not the right boat to be on in that particular place, at that particular time... Hell, I still can't get over the fact that the steering arms were fixed to the rudder posts with freakin' SET SCREWS... UFB...

In any event, I suppose Bill & Linda Knowles must be relieved this boat wasn't ready to go a few months ago... After all, if this had occurred during the Salty Dawg Rally, it would have only served as further evidence that there is a real problem with the way the SDR is being conducted...

Sorry, Smack - couldn't resist... :)
 
#4 · (Edited)
I confess that I did not have understood that it was a brand new boat. I did not have recognized the model but even with the wave piercing hulls the boat looked not brand new to me. The design (Marc Anassis) is kind of odd with plenty angles and a big windage. I never heard about the designer too. He have worked for many years as head of lofting for C&C yachts.

I am a bit perplexed with the accident. I have the idea that the boat had been thrown violently backwards by a gigantic wave but that is not confirmed by their description:

"At about 1130 hrs we took a huge direct hit all across our front windows. The wave that hit us seemed much larger than the rest and was running at a different angle, such that it hit us from directly ahead instead of on the starboard quarter. ..The wave stopped us dead in our tracks and even seemed to back us up a bit.

Considering this the damage seems to be very extensive.

Aeroyacht is a yacht brokerage firm that sells catamarans (several brands) and decided to distribute exclusively this one giving it its name. If I understood correctly the company or the builders had no particular experience in building cruising cats and I don't find any previous cruising cat project coming from that NA.

Picking an unproven nº1 hull from a company with no previous building experience in this type of boats and making a delivery on rough seas seems not very prudent to me. It seems to me that it should not be the owners to test the prototype on rough conditions but of course, it was their decision to take the boat there.

Alpha Team

About Aeroyacht - Aeroyacht

http://www.aeroyacht.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Alpha-42-Brochure1.pdf
 
#5 · (Edited)
Yeah, Paulo - it is very weird. Charlie was also perplexed by what happened in his article. My suspicion - based on the article (and his quote in my OP) - was that the helm was locked hard-over and thereby presented an immediate very large plane of resistance to the backward motion. And with the questionable construction/assembly it all just blew up.
 
#8 ·
Yeah, the Caribbean 1500's ISAF-based Safety Inspection would have caught that one, no doubt... I'm sure they would have caught the sort of stuff a skipper like Hank Schmitt might have overlooked... :)

Hmmm, wish I was at liberty to share an anecdote from an email I received a few weeks ago from Hank, regarding how 'discriminating' the 1500 can be, when it comes to whose checks they will accept... :)
 
#9 ·
This was mentioned on the local news last night because Charlie is considered a local being from Maine.

I wondered why anyone would even consider a bee line to the islands from the northeast this time of year. What's up with that?

Putting the make of the boat aside, I would think heavy weather would be more of a problem for cats compared to a mono hull, safe to say?
 
#27 ·
This was mentioned on the local news last night because Charlie is considered a local being from Maine.

I wondered why anyone would even consider a bee line to the islands from the northeast this time of year. What's up with that?
Perhaps Charlie should have re-read his blog entry from last winter, re the loss of the Swan 46 WOLFHOUND in strikingly similar circumstances, prior to setting off on this trip...

Emphasis mine...

What the heck were those guys doing out there in February? Twas a race delivery... believe it or not. McGettigan bought the boat in Connecticut last fall, didn't get it put together as fast as he hoped, thanks to Hurricane Sandy, but was intent on racing it in the Caribbean 600. So he and three buddies from Ireland jumped aboard and departed Westbrook bound for Bermuda on February 2.

What went wrong was predictable enough. It was exactly the sort of stuff that usually happens when you're shaking down a boat you've just bought. A newly installed inverter/charger didn't work properly and the engine got gunked up with dirty fuel. So there they were 70 miles or so north of Bermie with no house power and no engine and a handheld VHF with a rundown battery. Their only working nav equipment was an iPad that was down to 15 percent of its battery life. Then the weather got rough again, and they suffered two knockdowns.

What would YOU do in these circumstances???

I could launch into my routine tirade about unnecessary rescue calls, but I'll spare you that. (You'll find many such opinions in this forum discussion, if you do care to moralize.) Fact is, I can't promise I wouldn't have done the same thing in this situation, though I do like to think I would somehow have gotten into Bermuda unassisted.

COME AND GET IT: Free Swan 48 Available
 
#10 ·
When i saw they were building a Cat (Alpha 42) in NY as was so happy. I thought this was going to be a new beginning for a new builder.

I guess not......
The weather they experienced was not that tough for a boat that was engineered properly.

I think it's time for some of these american builders to reverse engineer some of the french and german/english boats to get an idea on how to build a boat.

I would venture to say that this will be the end of the Aeroyacht line. That story was way to accurate and truthful to set aside.
 
#13 ·
..

I guess not......
The weather they experienced was not that tough for a boat that was engineered properly.

I think it's time for some of these american builders to reverse engineer some of the french and german/english boats to get an idea on how to build a boat.
It is not properly that. Americans have great cats, the Gunboat range and great cat designers, namely Morrelli & Melvin that I am sure would design and engineer the boat properly. I think that what we see here is kind of an American thing not related with having the knowledge to do well but not using it.

What you see here is not different than what you see in Catalina or Hunter: Instead of calling the best and more experienced NAs to design their boats (and they exist in America) they design the boat in the house with 2th or 3th rate expertise and if the result in this case was quite traumatic on another cases it is just a product that by design is not as good as it could have been if it was better designed.

Talking about Cats in Europe even the inexpensive and kind of condo kind of cat like the Lagoon are designed by the best European NA specialized in cats, Van Peteghem /Lauriot Prévost that have an huge experience, racing included. We are remembered of that when we see all those Lagoons finishing the ARC and when he see that the ones that are well sailed can make very good results and go surprisingly fast.

http://www.vplp.fr/

That's also true that an European buyer would want to know who had designed the boat he intends to buy and that has a market value while in America the sensation I have is that buyers don't care or ask about that.

Regards

Paulo
 
#11 ·
I imagine this was probably a pricey boat.. pretty unacceptable level of failures in a new boat, 'shakedown' or not.

We once helped out a charter crew on a 'new' 40 foot cat in the Caribbean, they couldn't run one engine.. we investigated and found that a bulkhead mounted HW tank had broken away and fallen onto the engine, making all kinds of noises as the belts rubbed against it.

As we tried to address the situation it became clear that the tank had been held to the (plywood) bulkhead horizontally by a couple of SS bands and 4 #10 wood screws :eek: It had torn itself free in the swells motorsailing up the east coast of Antigua. Maiden trip for this charter boat out of Guadeloupe. We managed to reattach it and support the weight with some lashings up under the coaming (they wouldn't let us drill holes into the bulkhead and cabin liner to through-bolt it) Never did hear the final resolution, but it was pretty clearly an inadequate method.

In this case it seems that they did all they could to get themselves out of a situation that they arguably should never have gotten into in the first place. Despite the bad timing it sounds like they'd have made a safe passage (to some destination) had the boat not fallen apart on them.
 
#14 · (Edited)
Just curious why you would class Catalina with Hunter? not even remotely in the same class. I was a Catalina dealer and a Bavaria dealer and Catalina is hands down a better boat Than Bavaria. Each of these boats are designed for different reasons but if I was in the market I would choose a Catalina 5 series over Bavaria, Beneteau, or Jeanneau. They are better design, better sailing, better value and higher quality. :) I'm just saying...
 
#15 ·
Not talking about building quality but about boat design quality. I don't agree the Catalina is better designed quite the opposite. The Bavaria are designed by Farr. Who designs Catalina?

I joined Catalina and Hunter because they have something in common and opposed to all the other boats you mentioned: They are designed by 2th rate designers while all the others are designed by the best NA.

what I am saying is not that Catalina is a bad boat but that could be a much better one if it was designed by a top Na, for instance, and talking only about top American NA Cabinets, by Farr or Reichel & Pugh.

Regards

Paulo
 
#16 ·
Agreed Paulo. I would assume it is to keep costs reasonable. Unfortunately you can have the best designer in the world but it doesn't translate into having a equal regard to quality of construction. Bavaria for example has an absolutely brilliantly built hull but that's where it stops. They have horrible interiors. inferior decks and layouts and honestly wont out sail a comparably sized Catalina's not that either of these are racing machines. Catalina yachts has been in business since 1969 for a reason. They also have the hugest reoccurring customer base in the history of yachting. They also hold the distinction of being the easiest boat to resell the US market. Personally design is the number one reason I purchase a boat equally important is who built it. Having been around I refuse to own anything other than the best built designed boat in the world. On my budget that bought me a 22' boat. Maybe some day I will be ablr to move up to 24 26 or 28 but not at the expense of design or construction. Having said that I happily sail on all above mention yachts. If you want to know the real truth about boat construction ask any boatyard because they are the ones dealing with all the warranty failures :)
BTW I respect the hell out of your opinion and experience even if we often disagree.
 
#17 ·
Here are some numbers, the Catalina weighs 3,000 lbs more with less sail area but only loses.05 knot in hull speed even though Bavaria has a full foot on the water line. Catalina has a better capsize ratio and kills Bavaria on motion comefort.
Performance Comparison
LOA Bavaria 36 2002 Model
37.4
Catalina 36 MK II TR/Fin Keel
36.33
LWL Bavaria 36 2002 Model
30.84
Catalina 36 MK II TR/Fin Keel
30.25
Beam Bavaria 36 2002 Model
11.81
Catalina 36 MK II TR/Fin Keel
11.92
Displacement Bavaria 36 2002 Model
10363
Catalina 36 MK II TR/Fin Keel
13500
Sail Area Bavaria 36 2002 Model
721.2
Catalina 36 MK II TR/Fin Keel
602
Capsize Ratio Bavaria 36 2002 Model
2.17
Catalina 36 MK II TR/Fin Keel
2
Hull Speed Bavaria 36 2002 Model
7.44
Catalina 36 MK II TR/Fin Keel
7.37
Sail Area to Displacement Bavaria 36 2002 Model
24.28
Catalina 36 MK II TR/Fin Keel
16.99
Displacement to LWL Bavaria 36 2002 Model
158
Catalina 36 MK II TR/Fin Keel
218
LWL to Beam Bavaria 36 2002 Model
2.61
Catalina 36 MK II TR/Fin Keel
2.54
Motion Comfort Bavaria 36 2002 Model
18.07
Catalina 36 MK II TR/Fin Keel
23.78
Pounds/Inch Bavaria 36 2002 Model
1301
Catalina 36 MK II TR/Fin Keel
1288
 
#19 ·
That's part of the problem: Many Americans still look at things like capsize ratio and motion comfort ratio.

If you made a search on the site you will find information that will explain why that is meaningless. Jeff has some good posts about it.

Now in what regards hull design/shape, keel and ruder design you will find many differences regarding a boat designed by a top NA like Farr and the ones that design Catalina and Hunter.

But I don't want to discuss this. If you think that Catalina and Hunter are better designed then Bavaria or Jeanneau, fine with me but it is a bit strange that the ones that design Catalina and Hunter pretty much only design Catalina and Hunter and nobody looks for their services for designing other boats while Farr and Marc Lombard (just to mention two) have a huge number of commands each year that goes from mass production boats to big yachts and top race boats.
 
#25 ·
On that, I'll have to disagree. After being run down by a fast moving hurricane off Fiji, I made every possible mistake one could make (most because of a lack of information). A 65', 65 year old wooden Wm. Hand gaff ketch, built in Taunton Ma; rolled 3 times, hatches torn off, main boom and bowsprit broken, but she got us through it. Not that we didn't work our butts off, bailing and nailing floorboards over the hatches, etc, but that boat just wouldn't give up. Four days in winds over 65 knots.
She got us through, not I, nor my crew; my wife, a 20 year old kid who'd never sailed before and our 5 year old daughter. The last log book entry before the bar; "Good luck us." in big letters across a page.
Now that's a story worth telling!
 
#28 ·
And speaking of "unnecessary rescue calls" I cannot help but wonder why nobody has taken exception to the fact that they refused a rescue at hand, because the ship was going in the wrong direction and it was "inconvenient" for them. So instead had to have the USCG at great expense and risk of life come get them.
 
#29 ·
The way I read that was they had been informed by the CG that a west-bound ship was on the way?
 
#31 ·
What the heck were those guys doing out there in February? Twas a race delivery... believe it or not. McGettigan bought the boat in Connecticut last fall, didn't get it put together as fast as he hoped, thanks to Hurricane Sandy, but was intent on racing it in the Caribbean 600. So he and three buddies from Ireland jumped aboard and departed Westbrook bound for Bermuda on February 2.

What went wrong was predictable enough. It was exactly the sort of stuff that usually happens when you're shaking down a boat you've just bought. A newly installed inverter/charger didn't work properly and the engine got gunked up with dirty fuel. So there they were 70 miles or so north of Bermie with no house power and no engine and a handheld VHF with a rundown battery. Their only working nav equipment was an iPad that was down to 15 percent of its battery life. Then the weather got rough again, and they suffered two knockdowns.

What would YOU do in these circumstances???

I could launch into my routine tirade about unnecessary rescue calls, but I'll spare you that. (You'll find many such opinions in this forum discussion, if you do care to moralize.) Fact is, I can't promise I wouldn't have done the same thing in this situation, though I do like to think I would somehow have gotten into Bermuda unassisted.

COME AND GET IT: Free Swan 48 Available
Kind of the textbook case of Monday morning moralizing coming back to bite you in the hiney.

To broke's point above - that's where the "rogue wave" thing comes in real handy.
 
#34 ·
Interesting read. Having been caught out in a tropical depression in the same area I can't understate the power of the steep and disturbed seas in this area. Sounds like the boat did o'k for the conditions encountered except for some issues like rudder design, steering system build issues, forward window integrity, and engine location. All solvable problems except they are not solvable 300 miles off the coast of the Carolinas.

Could the engine alternator not working have been from water leaks into the engine compartment from the pounding they were taking? The forward "window" leaked a considerable amount when hit by a wave. If it was plexiglass leaking would not be surprising since plexiglass is pretty flexible. They are fortunate the window did not blow out.

My take is that this boat was not designed to be a true ocean voyaging machine. It probably is more than adequate for fair weather passages and bopping around the Caribbean. The telling thing was that it was sea trialed in 35 knot winds and 8 foot foot waves and pronounced fit for the voyage. Uh, not exactly the 15-20 foot waves encountered on the voyage. Nothing like being a beta tester 300 miles out in the North Atlantic.

The big question is who gets stuck with the bill. The manufacturer? an insurance company? or the owner? If it is the insurance company, I wouldn't be surprised to see them go after the manufacturer and the paid crew to recover some of their loss. Do you think the owner's wife will let him buy another one?
 
#35 ·
Rogue waves do happen especially in this area of the North Atlantic. I'm not sure about the twice as high as the average wave but I am dead sure about somewhat increased height and angle change of rogue waves. We saw some waves as much as 40 degrees off the average wave direction in the same area. Pretty scary when they are breaking and 25 feet high.

I once heard said that rogue waves are attracted to small boats in the Atlantic at about the same frequency as tornadoes are attracted to trailer parks in the Midwest. Just sayin'
 
#39 ·
Based upon Charlie Doane's description of the event, the wave that damaged the yacht may have been a "rogue" in the sense that it was larger than the prevailing seas and came from a different direction but was evidently not that much greater. I suspect the problems arose more from the design of the hulls with the raked "wave piercing" bows. The hulls did exactly that. They pierced the wave rather than rising to it which would have driven the bows down and into the water, exacerbating the situation. A wave piercing bow on a motor yacht with 100 feet or more of foredeck to disburse the flood and shed water before it reaches a reinforced steel or aluminum superstructure is one thing. A cat, with only 20 feet or so before a wave strikes a nearly flat plat superstructure of GRP and Plexiglas is quite another matter. Poor design for ocean voyaging in my view.

FWIW...
 
  • Like
Reactions: dtempleton
#36 ·
Through all of this, too, we were now having to pump out the moist sections of the boat by hand. Water had been coming aboard continually in certain compartments for some time and now with no electric bilge pumps we had to attend to the chore ourselves. We weren't sure where the water was coming from, and though the rate of ingress wasn't at all alarming, it was annoying, as we had to pump for several minutes every one-and-a-half hours or so.

It would seem to me that the quality of build was definitely subpar. Though, I would like to know what others make of this type of leakage on a brand new boat.

I really was looking forward to having a new, modern cat designed and build in NA. However, it seems that corners were cut and quality may have been compromised.

Also, the builder's website seems to focus on the ROGUE wave almost exclusively and there is no mention of problems with equipment and boat in general.
 
#37 ·
new boats leak all the time when put through a tough sail

remeber TANEA AIEBI?

brand new contessa 26(awesome pocket offshore cruiser) and that thing leaked all wayaround...she would fix and seal something only to have it leak somewhere else

it was a brand new boat in the early 80s right? cost cutting or bad finishing at the factory? recession or not new does not mean bulletproof

the titanic needs to always be in the back of our minds when going new...why cause it was bulletproof except for the 3 milliion bad metal rivets it had

same goes for anything new, until tested its no better than a bucket
 
  • Like
Reactions: ronbo1
#38 ·
Paulo,

You say:

"Catalina or Hunter: Instead of calling the best and more experienced NAs to design their boats (and they exist in America) they design the boat in the house with 2th or 3th rate expertise"

and:

"it is a bit strange that the ones that design Catalina and Hunter pretty much only design Catalina and Hunter and nobody looks for their services for designing other boats "

As I see it, a designer might be independent, designing for many people, or a part of the company which builds his designs. Different positions. One would be seeking and doing work for lots of people/companies, and the other, being a part of the team of a particular company is vested in that company and works/designs only for them. As I understand it, in Catalina's case, their designer (Gerry Douglas) has been the designer for many years, is a Vice President of the company, a principal in the company, and probably the number 2 or 3 ranking person after the primary owner of Catalina.
 
#40 · (Edited)
Paulo,

You say:

"Catalina or Hunter: Instead of calling the best and more experienced NAs to design their boats (and they exist in America) they design the boat in the house with 2th or 3th rate expertise"

and:

"it is a bit strange that the ones that design Catalina and Hunter pretty much only design Catalina and Hunter and nobody looks for their services for designing other boats "

As I see it, a designer might be independent, designing for many people, or a part of the company which builds his designs. Different positions. One would be seeking and doing work for lots of people/companies, and the other, being a part of the team of a particular company is vested in that company and works/designs only for them. As I understand it, in Catalina's case, their designer (Gerry Douglas) has been the designer for many years, is a Vice President of the company, a principal in the company, and probably the number 2 or 3 ranking person after the primary owner of Catalina.
Yes, that sometimes happens with small specialized brands and in the US certainly it happens with Jboats. But that can only be maintained if the boats are competitive and that's the case with Jboats that not only sell in the US as in Europe.

When major brands like Catalina and Hunter are beaten on the US market by European brands and sell almost nothing in Europe that means that someting is very wrong. It would be natural that Americans, all things being the same preferred American boats.

They are not only being beaten as they face trouble, specially Hunter that was almost bankrupt and that does not seem well to me.

When the major American sailboat brand faces bankrupcy I would say that reasons should be searched regarding its lack of competiveness. I don't know exactly why but it can be a problem of costs/build or design. It seems to me that it is a design problem since I don't find the boats as well designed as European boats and I am not talking about the interior;)

Anyway that was a side commet regarding that cat being designed by a NA that apparently has not a great experience designing sailboats and particularly cats. I don't thing that could have happened in Europe regardig a cat of that size and price. The comment regarding Catalina and Hunter being designed in the house while the main European brands have always the boats designed by the best NA on the market, has to do with showing a tendency on the american boat building industry even regarding the main and bigger American brands.

I would love to see better American sailboats and I love some of them, like Jboats or Corsair and that has nothing to do with being fast performance cruisers but with the fact of being well designed (those two seel well in Europe too). I am very happy with the new C&C to be designed by a great NA ( Mills, an American one) and I would like to se Catalinas and Hunters designed by major American (or european Nas), I believe they would be better boats.

Regards

Paulo
 
#42 ·
svHyLyte
You make a very good point and designers should take note. Completely ass-backwards to traditional vessel design with buoyancy decreasing with immersion, rather than increasing.
I hadn't given it any thought before you mentioned it, but now it seems obviously foolhardy for small sailing craft offshore designs.
 
#43 · (Edited)
Charlie Doane has produced another writeup - addressing us "baying dogs of the internet" (nice):

BE GOOD TOO: Answering Critics | Sailfeed

1. The most substantive point that has been raised is that it was not wise of us to attempt a non-stop passage from New York to St. John in January in an untried prototype boat. This certainly bears discussing. Gunther and Doris had been waiting for the boat for some time and were eager to get south ASAP. I am sure they are now second-guessing their decision in retrospect...

As for Hank's perspective, he's a professional delivery skipper. Taking brand new lightly equipped boats into ****ty weather is a big part of that job, at least if you really want to make a living at it. Some have suggested he should have tried to persuade Gunther and Doris to hop down the coast to the Bahamas instead, but in doing that he would effectively be talking them out of hiring him. I would guess that he now might be a bit more careful about accepting hull no. 1 prototype jobs.

As for me, I have some experience crewing off-season deliveries, including in brand new boats, and I knew what to expect. I knew we'd be in a gale or two and expected some things might break. I would never have done this trip with a skipper I didn't know and trust. In retrospect I can certainly say I will be more careful in the future about doing off-season passages in prototype boats.
Isn't the bolded stuff what the "baying dogs" have been saying? Hmm....

Oh, and Jon, ANOTHER plus one for me on the SDR argument:

In the winter, at least, you won't have some squirrely tropical system doing something entirely unexpected (like Mitch in 1998).

There is an argument to be made that experienced sailors taking a boat south in winter are behaving more responsibly than inexperienced sailors who try to go south in the fall without professional help.
I'm so right. And...

It may surprise Jon to learn this, but it is possible to sail long distances without any engines or electrical power. Some people even go out in boats that don't have engines or electrical systems in the first place.
...you just got spanked! Heh-heh.
 
#44 · (Edited)
Oh, and Jon, ANOTHER plus one for me on the SDR argument:

In the winter, at least, you won't have some squirrely tropical system doing something entirely unexpected (like Mitch in 1998).

There is an argument to be made that experienced sailors taking a boat south in winter are behaving more responsibly than inexperienced sailors who try to go south in the fall without professional help.
I'm so right.
You know, such an argument MIGHT have some merit, if you or Charlie could show any significant CORRELATION between the difficulties encountered by the boats abandoned or forced to withdraw from the SDR, and the experience - or supposed lack thereof - of their crews...

Unfortunately for you, there's not much of a correlation:

ZULU - The Alden 54 that suffered the loss of her rudder... Her owner is a member of the New York, Bristol, and Great Harbor Yacht Clubs. She had previously completed the brutal 2011 NARC rally, with no issues... Verdict: "Inexperience" not likely to be a significant issue...

JAMMIN' - the Catalina 42 that also lost her rudder... These folks have been full-time cruisers since 2007, starting from the West Coast... They had made the trip back and forth to the Islands a couple of times before...
Verdict: "Lack of experience" not bloody likely to have been an issue...

LIKE DOLPHINS - a Catana 47 that was dismasted... Her owners are from freakin' BELGIUM, so they have at least one Transatlantic crossing under their belts...
Verdict: I doubt their dismasting was due to a lack of experience...

NYAPA - the Hans Christian 38 also dismasted... This year was to be their 3rd time out cruising for an extended period, their first time out was 25 years ago after they were first married... 2nd cruise was a 5 year affair with their 3 daughters, starting on the West coast, thru the Canal and most of the Caribbean, and ending at home in New England, where they worked to replenish the cruising kitty, and refit for another extended cruise...
Verdict: "Lack of experience"??? Seriously???

WINGS - the C-38 abandoned after being 'disabled'... Another full-time cruising couple, their home port was Duluth, MN - you know, on that puny bathtub called Lake freakin' SUPERIOR ? They had already made it down to the Bahamas, spent at least a year without ever coming alongside a dock, then had returned to the Chesapeake, where they planned to sail with the SDR...
Verdict: Information on this couple is the hardest to obtain, but I it certainly does not appear they would fit anyone's reasonable definition of "Inexperienced"...

BRAVEHEART - the Tartan 4600 that diverted to Beaufort after a crewmember suffered a broken arm...Her owners were veterans of previous Caribbean 1500s, as long ago as 2006...
Verdict: "Inexperienced"? Yeah, OK, if you say so...

So, keep beating that drum of yours that the problems in this year's SDR fleet were due to "Inexperience", the SDR's "Low Bar to Entry", or the lack of an ISAF Safety Inspection - 'cause I doubt I'm the only one here who finds your persistent bleating on this issue highly amusing... :)
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top