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post #6071 of Old 02-06-2014 Thread Starter
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Silver / B60

Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
... My opiniions are not personal attacks on your choices they are simply my opinions. ...

Quote Paulo:"Regarding the type of clients you have that you describe like "discerning clients", they certainly are rich and want luxury boats but they are also quite conservative in their tastes. A discerning taste may also means a taste for speed in cruising and a boat easy to sail solo (with a luxurious interior) and it seems to me that, contrary to the other NA that also designed by Beneteau and Jeanneau, none of your recent clients has that type of discerning taste."

That commenty is just plain silly.

I have asked you plenty times not to be rude on this thread. I an not silly and resent to be called silly.

I will not use rude language but I will point out that you should look better to what the others say before calling them silly. Or better you should think they are but should not say it. It is called to be polite.

I was talking about your recent works and regarding cruising boats. That boat is a daysailer and a weekend cruiser at most.

But by your rude observation it seems that you consider it a performance daysailer. You could have simply asked, instead of calling me silly, if I did not consider it a performance daysailor and I would have said politely that no, that is not the case. Certainly the boat is a relatively fast daysailor due to its lenght but not a performance one and my opinion is not from now but from many months ago. This is what I said when Faster asked my opinion about it:

Originally Posted by PCP View Post

Certainly a beautiful boat and also an extreme boat regarding several counts:

A 60ft day sailor, very narrow with a small long interior, a big draft and a nice narrow deep bulbed keel.

This is a sailboat that will need a relatively small sail area relatively to its length, a boat that will take advantage of a big LOA and relatively big LWL to be a fast boat, particularly upwind. The narrow hull will not generate a lot of form stability, it is a boat that needs to heel to create RM. With any considerable amount of wind this boat will go fast upwind but with a lot of heel.

I understand and respect the intention to make the boat accordingly with semiotic image of a past traditional model, a long canoe body. That gives a beautiful boat but that double end takes away the possibility of increasing that already small for stability, particularly downwind.

Here you have another American very marrow boat, certainly more sportive, using a shape of hull and transom that will provide more form stability:

But the Silver is a very particular boat certainly for a very particular owner to whom maximizing performance will not be central, neither the interior space in what regards pleasantness or space volume or the possibility to sail in not deep waters. Probably beauty, pleasure of sailing and easy speed are what the owner wants and I have no doubt the boat will provide that.

Anyway, talking about an one off is completely different than talking about a production model. A production model is made to please to a market segment, a one off is made to please a owner. If the owner is completely satisfied and his dreams were fulfilled, than it is a great boat even if it will not please or satisfy the needs of any other sailor. Regarding a production model, it is more complicated since the designer is not trying to satisfy only one client but the needs and desires of many people.
On a performance boat, cruiser or daysailer, sailing potential is the essence of the boat and everything regarding its hull design and rig takes precedence and it is there to increase overall sailing performance.

A performance boat is in what regards the hull and rig has to be a truly functional boat, you don't use there decorative elements or elements that are less effective regarding sailing then others:

You don't use a round transom since that besides providing little drag and good upwind performance is overall less efficient than a transom that provides more form stability without increasing significantly the drag upwind.

You use a balanced hull regarding downwind and upwind best performances and not one that is only maximized for upwind and that will not allow a very good performance downwind.

There is a good reason why rounded bows and very narrow boats are not used today in racing and that's because those shapes and options are not the best in what regards overall performance and on a performance daysailer, cruiser or racer, bettering the performance is what counts.

I will post a daysailer designed under a performance perspective by the Luca Brenta team. It has the same lenght of the Silver and has already some years:

Silly? I don't think so. What I call a performance boat may be different than what you call a performance boat, but not silly. The B60 having a lot more hull form stability than your boat (not only by a superior beam but also by a more efficient transom design) has almost 60% of B/D ratio and this will give you the potential of the boat downwind, without compromising too much (if any) upwind potential. the boat will also have a far better performance reaching.

As I said that is a design with already some years. Probably if the B60 was designed now it would be more like the C42, a Luca Brenta team 2012 design: a bit more beam (even if it still a narrow boat) and chines.

If you were on the market, I mean if someone was building that boat in a small production basis, your boat would have to compete with boats like this one (and there are more) not only in performance as in interior space, cockpit space and overall comfort.

Off course it is not so and as I said before, as long as the client is satisfied, it is a great design.



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Last edited by PCP; 02-06-2014 at 02:25 PM.
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