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post #6447 of Old 03-17-2014 Thread Starter
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Originally Posted by bjung View Post
Noone destroyed this thread. From what I understand , Paulo had been asking for total control over "his" thread for quite some time, meaning control over who is allowed to contribute, and what is posted. Obviously, that is not what Sailnet is all about, and they rightfully denied Paulo those privileges. (Moderators, please jump in to correct if I see this wrong!?)
Then came a disagreement about a very uninterresting boat from a below quality producer and the fuse somehow got lit (unnecessary namecalling did not help this either).
And he can blame it all on this disagreement, rather than the preceeding powerstruggle with the mods for the thread. Perfect! Scapegoats found!
I will certainly miss his contributions, but not his bullying behaviour and inability to admit when he is in the wrong.
Since nobody from the moderation appears to say that there was no power struggle whatsoever and because I believe that the truth should be made clear what happened was this:

On another thread I was discussing with Bob the relevant interest of Computational fluid dynamics (CFD) in NA design and it's use by many top NA to improve the quality of their design in what regards learning and performance and I was asked by moderation at Bob’s request to stop debating with him, even on a constructive way (like they have considered I was doing). They asked me not to debate with Bob even if I consider him to be wrong. They said also that they would ask Bob the same regarding him debating my points. I have accepted on the condition the reciprocity would be maintained.

When Bob started to insult people, making absurd comments, wise cracks and meaningless and out of context posts, I mean this kind of stuff:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
I have personal hygene issues all under control but I'll confer with you if the need arises...."I am sorry, but you obviously did not get my point."...That happens around here....That commenty is just plain silly...Chill Paulo. You are not the Pope....Paulo... obviously feels threatened.....I think you guys are selling chines. You act like car salesmen selling a tacked on spoiler. Are the chines built in China? Is that why you call them "chines"? I'll say it slowly this time: I am not a hobbyist....Tsia chien Shin nien ...That is a really stupid statement. ...Tsai chien....Gong hay fat choy....Get real Paulo. ....You don't get it.... Read slowly....I rarely shower. I smell like my dogs, I wear woolen shirts. My hair looks funny. I own two pair of shoes. I'm not Euro...I do have an amazing, very expensive hi-fi system probably cost as much as your yacht...My mother's maiden name was Nanelli. Does that help?...Its Wednesday already and I haven't used either of those words yet this week.
I sent a message to the moderation saying this:

"Probably you have been following the "problems" on interesting boat thread with Bob. I have been patient face to his rudeness to me and others but regarding a last post asking him in very polite tone to moderate his attitude he replied:

Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
.. I have no intention of "behaving". I never have.
"So please keep your word and keep Bob out of that thread since I cannot ignore him on a thread I pretty much run.

I am not interested in seeing the nice ambiance of that thread become something like the one of the Steel boat thread and I will not continue it on this forum if that is the only option. I am not here to being pissed."

To understand why I am talking about not being able to ignore what Bob was saying or his insults (about me and others that had contributed to this thread) you have to understand that was Bob's proposal, on a previous post:

Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Holy cow Paulo:
But I have a suggestion that could be useful for you:
If you go to where you can edit your preferences for this forum there is a place where you can put people on "ignore". .. for you it would serve to have my posts on ignore and you would not have to read them. This would be good for you too Eric. Better than pissing and moaning.
Because, I'm not going anywhere and I have no intention of "behaving". I never have.
and regarding Bob's participation on the thread, I had not any problem if he behaved normally like me, like all, in a polite constructive discussion. I only complained when he declared publicly that he did not have any intention to behave in a civil way. My complain had to do with the kind of "contribution" and participation that I did not wanted on this thread simply because it would destroy the thread.

As Bob continued with a rude language, wise cracks and meaningless posts I tried again to save the thread and I sent another message to the moderators:

"Jeff, it is very clear, this what you ask me to do at Bob's request. I demanded reciprocity and you have agreed. Other thing would be odd since you would be proceeding differently regarding the same subject with different members. What you have asked me was this:
".. Make your points on other topics, but please do not try to debate with Bob. If at this point Bob starts debating your points, I will send him a similar note and ask him to please let you go as well."

maybe I have understood wrongly bit I cannot see how I could be on a thread "dominated" by Bob without debating with him as I cannot see how can Bob be on the interesting sailboat thread without debating with me.

I am not afraid to debate with him if he does that with me and other members in a normal way and not in a paternalistic way, calling names (stupid, silly, myopic) to all that don't share is views and stop with incomprehensible comments and what you call wise cracks.

This is "my" thread and there everybody behaves in a civil and pleasant way. There are other threads for wise cracks, rude behaviors and incomprehensible comments.

Otherwise I would just go elsewhere doing what I am doing here and it will be no more "my" thread.

Bob has been colonizing threads on sailnet, taking them out of subject and making them "his" threads, where he posts his boats. It had happened with the Full keel boat thread that have become a thread about why boats should not have a full keel and about the Steel boat thread that from a thread about steel boats become a thread about why steel boats should be avoided and were everything is posted from chit chat to Bob's boats (except steel boats).

If you want that the interesting thread become another Bob's thread with bob's boats as interesting boats, chit chat and wise cracks fine, but I will go away.
I want to make clear that it was not me that started this. Interesting sailboats is one of the most informative and civil threads in sailnet. If It will change it will not be due to my will but against it. What can I do if a guy publicly says that he would not behave and does not had any intention of behaving and proceeds accordingly with it?"

and a last message:

"...The point is that on a previous occasion, as I have quoted below, Bob had asked you that I stop discussing with him and you asked me to not post on the thread were Bob was posting and that he had made "his" thread.

I agreed and complied on the condition that Bod stop posting on "my" thread. You have agreed. if you don't remember read below because I have quoted the exchange of messages.

I am just asking you to comply with what was agreed then and that's all. I do really hate when compromises are not respected.

Bob has called my comments silly without any reason, called me myopic, said that another contributing member was making stupid affirmations and asked me to read slowly (as if I was stupid) something that he had messed up from the beginning (as he after noticed).

In fact he is the one that has a myopic view regarding the evolution of contemporary NA and continues to design 30 year old designs. The next time he make any comment out of order I will say just that, that is no more nor less than what he has been making regarding the ones that disagree with him...."

So you have it. I guess you can have a good idea of what happened.
I do not hold any grunge about the moderators. Everybody has to take options, they have asked me not to debate with Bob and I complied, probably they asked the same to Bob but he does not know how to behave and did not comply. That's live but what you have posted is not what happened and I don't think you should be talking about something you don't know about.

I ask moderation to understand why I disclosed the messages I had sent to them since I was being accused of something I had not done and they are relevant to this matter. I firmly believe in truth and that nobody should be accused of something that he did not do and nobody should be afraid about truth.



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