SailNet Community banner
  • SailNet is a forum community dedicated to Sailing enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about sailing, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, repairs, reviews, maintenance, and more!

Pan Pan - I am in a situation and could use some advice.

10K views 85 replies 30 participants last post by  bubb2 
#1 ·
Its just over 24 hours now since an approximate 30-foot abandoned sailboat with no name sailed off her anchor and ran into another cement 50 foot sailboat which also has an absentee owner. The two have been doing the tango just 100 yards to the east of MISTRESS and there are several other small sailboats closure to them. Each time the tide changes or a wake comes our way, the two grind and crunch at each other while the rest of us sit by, fenders at the ready in case the first wayward boat takes flight again. The City marina has been made aware, but because neither boat owner pays dingy dockage, no one knows who the owners are. I called Tow Boat US yesterday, because they were the ones that brought the wayward boat here about three months ago when the owner called them because his engine failed. They did not remember which boat I was speaking of, and said once the storm we were dealing with went through, they would come out and check. To date, they have not come by. We called Fish and Wildlife and a report was filed yesterday with the numbers on both boats, but no one will be coming out because there is no danger to wildlife. Florida Marine Patrol I am told, has its boat out of commission and because there is no immediate threat to life and limb, it is not appropriate to call the Coast Guard. Therefore, we all sit here waiting for something more to happen. I have all my fenders on deck and a large metal cutter that was purchased to cut rigging wire should either or both come my way. If we touch the wayward boat, we become responsible for it and man oh man I sure don’t want to be responsible for it. If it hits us, my best guess is the owner sure will not have the money needed for our repairs, considering he has not done any of his own and I have only seen him here twice since it was dropped off. I am also not interested in owning his boat as compensation of damage done to MISTRESS.

What do I do now? Do I just keep sitting here waiting for it to break loose from the other boat? Do I wait until the two of them are loose and call out a Pan Pan to the area? I have made everyone here in the south anchorage aware of what is happening so they can be prepared, but it seems rather silly to me to be not sleeping and watching these two boats dance the crunch tango.

I know that in the cover of darkness, there are all kinds of fun things we could think about doing, but I am hoping for some advice here that will really help those of us in the anchorage. If we set it free the chances it will return in just six hours with the next tide change is a very strong possibility. We are at slack tide with the swing going to happen any minute. Luckily, there has been little or no wind.
Please Help!
I am clueless in St. Augustine.
Kathleen
Aboard
Schooner MISTRESS
 
See less See more
#3 ·
wow, anticipation. I would call both boat owners, get their take, and some money and use an anchor and skeg off the runaway vessel. Don't know what the legal responsibility would be. How bad is the 30ft shape-i might be interested if you become owner. Been looking for 30-40 foot fixer-upper. I feel for your situation. Good luck, Patrick
 
#5 ·
Kathleen-
CALL THE USCG. I don't know if they are or are not prohibited from responding, but generally they will find a way to respond IF they have any available resources, AND by doing so they can save lives or property--which would include preventing the oil spill and submerged wreck that this situation could easily cause.
If you couch it in those terms--preventing an imminent disaster with immediate threat to an environmental incident--they may be able to tow away both vessels, or at least add anchors to them.

For an overworked, underpaid, harried organization with too few resources, they still manage to go out of their way to outperform the "requirements".

Call 'em. Pitch it to them as preventing etc. as above. If that doesn't work, use the stick: Start down your list again, and at each agency, tell the person on the phone "OK, now what is your name and position please? I'm documenting these calls so we have a record of exactly who is responsible for the damages that are about to happen." If necessary, call the local waterside businesses or civic associations, local ward or other lowest-level political rep, mayor's office, etc. And again remind them--this is like a house on fire, if everyone ignores it, it could spread and there could be more losses and damage to the community (the waterfront).

(I'm hoping the one first call to the USCG does it.)
 
#6 ·
Be careful what you ask for. That 30 ft abandoned sailboat may have liens and liabilities you may not want to deal with - especially after a collision with the 50 footer.

Salvaging is not worth the risks - IMHO. Unless there is nowhere else to go, or you have responsibilities off that cove's shore, weigh anchor and move on - this is not your fight.
 
#10 ·
OK we made it through the last swing and so far so good. I cannot tell a lie, and I know both boats don't have engines therefore no fuel to spill. Sorry, if there was I sure would. About once every two months another motor boat threatens to sink and every authority known to mankind has been called, however, it is always the people here in the anchorage that do something about it. I know the Coast Guard goes above and beyond and for that reason alone I hate to involve them when life is not at stake. I DO NOT WANT TO SALVAGE ANYTHING. Remember, we just spent 6 & 1/2 years redoing MISTRESS. I WANT TO GO SAILING! Besides, it it usually impossible to get clear title.
Here is the other problem. This is a weekly occurrence here in lovely St. Augustine. I wish I was kidding or exaggerating, but we have abandoned boats all over the place. I have 4 anchors down and need to take care of a few more medical things before we can get the heck out. We set these anchors way south of everyone else, but hey, the tide turns and the wind changes, so nothing is certain. If a hurricane should come our way, there is no way we will stay here. While we know we can hold ground, it is all the abandoned boats or liveaboards that go no where and have old chafed gear, no engines, and an inability to know how to take care of their boats that has us worried. I have seen chain down here so long it looks like the kind of chain you would use for a small puppy dog in your backyard. This happens so often here, that none of the authorities will do anything, I know, I have called them all before and am very good at making sure they know I am documenting things, but alas, no results. The newspaper will do a story on it every so often when yet another boat sinks, but still nothing happens. Is St. Augustine the only one with this kind of problem?
PS I sit here fishing knowing I will land the biggest fish of my life and then the wayward boat is going to come my way. That's going to really piss me off.
Kathleen
aboard
Schooner MISTRESS
 
#11 ·
Isn't that a navagational hazard and worthy of a security alert call


Neither boat is on the move, therefore, as I understand it there is no reason to put out a Pan Pan. Like I said, I did go around and let all the folks in this area know about it so they could make sure they were ready for trouble should something come their way.
Kathleen
aboard
Schooner MISTRESS
 
#12 ·
I just hailed my good buddies over at Tow Boat US again, and they will send someone over in the next 45 minutes to get a visual on the boat and hope that will jog someones memory and they will be able to locate the owner's name and number from their records.

Last night, Skip said he thought that a responsible boat owner who could not visit their anchored boat each day and check on it, would at least put their phone number on the boat so if something were to happen, others would have a way of reaching them. You would think.
Kathleen
aboard
Schooner MISTRESS
 
#13 ·
And folks wonder why there's so much restriction on anchoring. When these boats cause damage to some local VIP you can count on more aggressive police activity and possibly more restrictions on cruisers. Everyone else will pay for the irresponsible boat bums.

When people talk about wanting to take action regarding anchoring rights, they should be taking action against boat bums.
 
#15 ·
Cam-
My Evil Twin Brother sends you his regards, and says calling the newspaper is almost the right thing to do. Have someone ELSE call the newspaper, and ask if they'd heard that all these agencies are passing the buck and allowing an environmental disaster to happen.<G>

Kathleen-
No engine does not mean "no oil, no fuel, no thinners on board". A genset with fuel or a couple of kerosene lanterns below could still qualify as a spill, the criteria is literally "any visible shine" on the water. But as Xort says, now you see why towns have overreacted with anchoring ordinances, formal mooring fields, etc. so they do in fact have legal jurisdiction and the ability to do something. Being in an area where there's no "zoning" laws, so to speak, has its pros and cons.

Stick an alarm clock and some highway flares in their cockpit, wrapped up with duct tape. Call Homeland Security and sell the video the Evening Nooze, those boats will be GONE FAST.< G >
 
#16 ·
SchoonerMISTRESS said:
I just hailed my good buddies over at Tow Boat US again, and they will send someone over in the next 45 minutes to get a visual on the boat and hope that will jog someones memory and they will be able to locate the owner's name and number from their records.
They may be your good buddies but I know I wouldn't trust them to make any type of judgement call after what I saw play out a few years ago on Block Island RI. A boat anchored near me with nobody on board (just like half the boats anchored in the Great Salt Pond on a Sat afternoon) was dragged down on by a large boat with the skipper also among the missing. A clueless woman came out of the large dragger and did nothing. The Tow Boat ended up towing away the dragee (still holding fine) instead of the dragger amid the protests of myself and everybody else in ear and eyeshot and ended up chasing the dragee for charges. I ended up having to send in a written explaination totally against the Tow Boats handling of the situation.
 
#17 ·
hellosailor said:
Stick an alarm clock and some highway flares in their cockpit, wrapped up with duct tape. Call Homeland Security and sell the video the Evening Nooze, those boats will be GONE FAST.< G >
Or just tell them that you saw two strange women in Burkhas visiting the boat only at night.
 
#18 · (Edited)
If the boat is under 30 feet I would probably get some help, untangle some of the mess, pull the offending boat back to where it was anchored in the beginning, and use the biggest spare anchor I could find to re-anchor it. Then I would stuff a note into the boat saying what had happened and how much trouble the boat had caused. Then put a note into the other boat involved telling them what happened to their boat and why it was so scuffed up.

Because that's what I would want somebody to do if it were my boat.
 
#19 ·
Xort says; And folks wonder why there's so much restriction on anchoring. When these boats cause damage to some local VIP you can count on more aggressive police activity and possibly more restrictions on cruisers. Everyone else will pay for the irresponsible boat bums.

When people talk about wanting to take action regarding anchoring rights, they should be taking action against boat bums.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
I could not agree with you more Xort. I feel as if I cause more harm than good to cruisers if I complain about these guys. The powers that be seem to just add additional charges to us thinking that is going to make a difference. If you can't afford it, you will go somewhere else. That's not how it works though. These people use this anchorage as free wet storage, therefore, no additional charges at the dingy dock or the marina are going to effect them one way or the other. Instead, I pay $180.00/mo. for dingy dockage. Were is the logic. Please someone tell me.

Kathleen
aboard
Schooner MISTRESS
 
#20 ·
Kathleen,

I will tell you what I would do... but this is not necessarily the "right" thing to do. I have done similair things in the past, in Florida of all places, incidentally (with one of them being an old POS Chris Craft). Here is what I would do:

I would board the boats, untangle them, and re-set the anchors.

If anyone ever came back and said, "Well, ole CD screwed up my good anchorage and he is at fault... (blah, blah, blah), I would show them the pics of the two intertwined and explain the Good Samaritan Rule (which probably is not applicable on water).

I would do my best to save the boats... or at least stand off their eventual demise. I have done it before. I would do it again.

The argument could come up that by doing so, you have taken responsibility for the boats... you could argue that you made every attempt to get the authorities to take responsibility and no one would so you were trying to save life and limb and property. If the vessel breaks free and hits your boat, who really knows what damage it might cause to you and your family? You are acting to save yourself and to protect the waterways. After all, it is just now starting to gear up for Hurricane Season. Take the advice from someone that has weathered many: It is the boats around you that will bring you down... not your ineptitude.

Just my opinion as a nieve good Samaritan.

- CD
 
#21 ·
'Christy Leigh' I only contacted Tow Boat because they must have a record of the owner because they were the ones that brought it here. I am hoping to get name and phone number so the owner can be made aware of his problem.. Another neighbor has told me they were able to contact the other boats watch person and he said he would come right over. Apparently that call was made at 8 am this morning. Love how he is jumping on that. This is the guy who is suppose to be watching and working on the boat that was hit. It has lost all portholes on the starboard side, and there is a bunch of big scrapes, not to mention I believe he has also dragged a bit to the north.

Hello Sailor says; Stick an alarm clock and some highway flares in their cockpit, wrapped up with duct tape. Call Homeland Security and sell the video the Evening Nooze, those boats will be GONE FAST.< G >
____________________________________________________________
I'll bet you that would be affective. When I called DPR, EPA, Marine Patrol, Sherriff office, when the power boat was going down last month with 150 gallons of old fuel on board, NOT A DAMN PERSON SHOWED UP. We have so many turtles, dolphins, manatees and other marine life here, it makes me sick.

Wind Magic, Let me ask you this question. Is it not true the last one who sets the anchor is responsible for what ever happens next? If I could find a workboat to tow it back where it was, about 1/4 of a mile south of me, and reset the anchor; assuming it has bad gear and it breaks loose again in a day or a week, am I responsible for any damage it causes? I have heard that I would be, and therefore I have concerns about this. Not to mention all I have is an inflatable with a 2 and a half hp/ 4 stroke. Not exactly what is needed to move this boat and reanchor it.
Kathleen
aboard
Schooner MISTRESS
 
#22 ·
SchoonerMistress-

Your primary responsibility IMHO is to your boat...and keeping it safe... so unless you have some really important reason for staying in that particular anchorage... I would recommend you move on for the duration. Once these two disasters in waiting are dealt with, go back.

Calling the USCG and the local media are probably both good ideas, especially in that order, since if the USCG decides to do nothing, you can tell the media about it. :D

Just because the boats are engineless, doesn't really mean that they wouldn't be a pollution hazard if they sank, as HS has pointed out. You don't know what else they have aboard... if they have a single can of WD40, that would still be capable of creating a very large slick. Also, if they sink, they will be a hazard to navigation. If they break free, they will be a hazard to navigation.
 
#23 ·
Cruising Dad, Thanks I really appreciate it. I, by myself will not be able to do it, and as I look around there is really no one else about. However, Skip called to check on things and tells me that if no one does the right thing by the time he gets home, something will be done to remedy the situation. Funny you should mention pics, I just took a few. As for what Skip has plans, I thought better than to ask. Time will tell.
I really appreciate all of you jumping to my aid the way you have and you have all given me good ideas. Thank you very much. I will let you know how it all turns out. Though if I use Hello Sailors idea, I may be quite ambiguous about the whole thing. :cool:
Kathleen
aboard
Schooner MISTRESS
 
#24 ·
SchoonerMISTRESS said:
Wind Magic, Let me ask you this question. Is it not true the last one who sets the anchor is responsible for what ever happens next? If I could find a workboat to tow it back where it was, about 1/4 of a mile south of me, and reset the anchor; assuming it has bad gear and it breaks loose again in a day or a week, am I responsible for any damage it causes? I have heard that I would be, and therefore I have concerns about this. Not to mention all I have is an inflatable with a 2 and a half hp/ 4 stroke. Not exactly what is needed to move this boat and reanchor it.
Kathleen
aboard
Schooner MISTRESS
I reccomended that actually. I do not know all the rules, honestly. I am sure there is some BS rule about how you reset an anchor trying to save a boat(s) and it ends up sinking anyways and it is your fault. Kinda like helping the guy who has a heart attack and he dies anyways and you are the reason he ate all those french fries all those years. THis is the USA, after all. I am not telling you what you need to do... I am telling you what I would do.

I would do it because it is the RIGHT thing to do, not because it is the best legalistic thing to do. But I have been burnt by people many times for trying to do the right thing and treading down a road eveyone else was scared to walk. THat is just me, and always will be.

What road you choose is up to you. See if there are any others around you that care enough to walk that road with you (and with bigger outboards). Safety in numbers, respect in individuality, righteouness in compassion.

- CD
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top