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Leave In or Drain The Pink Stuff?

29K views 41 replies 16 participants last post by  DrB 
#1 ·
Winterizing the boat yesterday. Drained the water tanks and poured the Pink Anti-Freze in and pumped through the lines. What's the general consensus in leaving the stuff in the lines versus pumping it out of the lines and closing everything up and leaving the lines essentially unfilled except for residual pink anti-freeze?

DrB
 
#6 ·
One reason to leave it in is if you get any condensation, particularly on boats stored outdoors in a sunny area, where the "greenhouse" effect of the shrink wrap can cause them to act as moisture traps, the pink stuff will prevent the condensation from freezing.
 
#9 ·
I can not conceive of any boat making enough condensation within a hose to make it burst from freezing. It isn't going to happen.
 
#12 ·
It may not be enough to burst a hose, but it might be enough to damage a seacock. Just because the damage is relatively minor, doesn't mean it won't sink the boat with little warning come spring time. :rolleyes:
 
#13 · (Edited)
Still not sure how leaving it in really makes a difference in the amount of condensation which could form unless you leave the system charged throughout the winter which is an impracticality. Arguably, a partially full system (which is what you get by simply filling the lines) provides more water vapor to condense without significantly lowering the volume of free space available compared with an essentaily emply system. The engineer in me working over-the-top here...
Even if condensation formed, it would be insufficient to fill the lines to the point that freezing could damage anything.
Guess I have too much free time.
 
#21 ·
I would not worry too much about condensation in the lines. Condensation caused by shrink wrap is why I hate shrink wrap. Replaced floorboards in some boats caused by poor shrink wrap jobs, and seen too many instances of mold on shrink wrapped boats. It does create a greenhouse, and venting only sometimes works.

As for draining and red pop, I use the same system that our charter fleet does, because it has worked for them for years without frozen lines.

Drain the tanks into the bilge or run the pump if you want. Get the water out of the tanks.I do not put red pop in the tanks as they drain fine with the line to the pump disconnected. I then disconnect the line to the pump, put a new hose on it, drop the end of this short hose into the red pop bottle, and pump away. Once it is primed it goes into the system ( hot water tank bypassed) and I open one faucet at a time until red pop flows. Close that faucet and open it's counterpart. Work through all faucets in this manner. Don't forget the swim shower or anchor wash down if you have them. After one and a half bottles of red pop the system is full of red pop. Turn off the pump and leave it. I reconnect the tank line in the spring and leave the lines charged. Obviously, it will not still be charged in the spring, my system is pretty good at holding pressure, but not that good.

As to seacocks freezing......they won't because they are ALL open for the duration. Splash the third week of April, water temp then about 46 degrees. DO NOT FALL IN!
 
#25 ·
What I do is drain all the water from the 140 gal tank (gravity drains on all sinks) and all fresh and seawater pressurized supply lines. In my case, three sinks with taps, two saltwater deck bibbs and two interior saltwater faucets. The 2 Par pumps are the belt-driven diaphram type and pump themselves dry.

I then disconnect the water lines from the Par pump outlets, open every faucet on the boat and blow all water residue out with an electric compressor. I've also used a nozzle valve attached to a scuba tank, which works equally well.

The water heater is a propane, on-demand type, so no tank. The unit's manifold is drained and drain plug removed prior to blowing out the lines.

All my prior boats had impeller pumps and electric/engine heated hot water tanks. The pink stuff was pumped through after bypassing the drained water heater - left in through-out the winter and drained in the Spring. I really hated using that stuff.

This will be the 4th winterization on this boat, using the compressor method and never had any problems. No chemicals are needed, other than shocking the system with a bleach solution during recommissioning.
 
#30 ·
Expansion/Contraction of Glycol

Okay, I prefrace my response with the fact that I have a BS and PhD in Chemistry and Material Eng.

There seems to be confusion on the expansion versus temp of glycol as the temperature changes. The coef. of thermal expansion measures the change in dimension/dimension of a material. It is a dimensionless number. for example a CvT = change in volume/volume-K or change in volme/volume per degree kelvin.

For a given composition (50:50, 70:30, 30:70, etc.) of Glycol/Water, the expansion cofficient goes down with temperature. However, at the phase change (freezing into a solid) the solid has a higher volume than the liquid, so it expands. Obviously not what we want.

If you change the amount of glycol in the mix, the thermal exp. coef. changes; more glycol, a higher expansion coeff., less glycol, lower. Also, if the temperature changes, the expans. coeff. changes. Cooler temps mean lower expansion coeff.

For your temp climate, you need to choose the lowest temp that you think will occur (and then go 20 deg colder) and mix your water/glycol mixture for it.

The statement about allowing some room for the glycol/water solution to expand, in the cited reference by k1vsk, is due to the fact that the day you fill the tank may be 40 deg F and the next day 80 deg F. If you top it off at 40, there is no room for the expanded material to go at 80. If you fill at say 80 and the temp drops to say 30, the liquid will contract and you may be lower than the amount you need to effectively work until the liquid warms up. This is why they have a overflow reservior with your engine that has a high/low fill line. The reservior allows for the expansion volume while providing enough material for proper levels if the engine is cold until it warms up.

DrB

EDIT - Thanks for all of the responses to my OP. I'll leave the Pink in.
 
#32 ·
Vodka,
the underated ultimate cure all.
This would give you several advantages: 1. & 2. extra help when you need it most, decommisioning, recommissioning; 3.use as an antifreze, 4. good time for all as the crew will remember the vodka and not the labor prior
fantistic idea thanks for the :)
 
#33 ·
The only problem I see with using vodka is that it is flammable and may attack the seals and gaskets in the system.
 
#34 ·
No Chemical Reason Why That Would Happen

The alcohol in vodka is ethanol (ethyl alcohol). The Pink Anti-freeze has ethanol in it also. If the Pink Stuff works and doesn't harm seals, vodka won't harm seals also. However, Vodka is a lot more expensive/gallon than the Pink stuff.

DrB
 
#36 ·
Checked the MSDS for four different brands of antifreeze, and none have Ethanol as an ingredient. I don't know what brand you're using or where you got your information, but I believe it is wrong.

The alcohol in vodka is ethanol (ethyl alcohol). The Pink Anti-freeze has ethanol in it also. If the Pink Stuff works and doesn't harm seals, vodka won't harm seals also. However, Vodka is a lot more expensive/gallon than the Pink stuff.

DrB
 
#35 ·
We just finished up winterizing (?) our 36 foot sloop in Seward, Alaska this weekend and we always leave the pink stuff in the lines and flush out after breakup.

This year I also tried something new...I unhooked the head inlet hose from the seacock, flushed out all the seawater from the head inlet and refastened the hose to the seacock with the two hose clamps. (A couple of years back the back of the head froze and cracked the plastic, forcing me to replace the head.)
 
#37 ·
HAHAHAHAHAH.... wait, what was the original question again??? SOmetimes I skip over threads I should not.

Leave it in. Wasn't that the question? Does not taste good though. Thus pump it out at the end. However, if vodka, leave it in. However, if ethanol is bad, pump it out (just call CD first... I will do it for you for free).

HEHEHEHE! Ohh, only on sailnet will we go 4000 pages to decide whether to leave it in or pump it out. THe Sea Ray guys are going to be laughing at us...

- CD
 
#42 ·
For Sailingdog

The brand that I used is called Arctic Ban. Bought at Ace/TrueValue. Says it contains Ethyl Alcohol. I am not familiar with other brands, so that was what my response to your post re: vodka/ethanol was based on.

DrB
 
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