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reefing

9K views 31 replies 9 participants last post by  MiVelero 
#1 ·
Greetings,
I have a basic question on reefing with my present system set-up.
1. Is the red line path correct or should I tie off to the sliding eye?
2. My clew line is rope to wire.
A. Is the wire necessary?
B. Is there a block inside the boom ? I am unable to see inside the boom since the sheaves are riveted to the end and so are clutches at other end of boom.
3. If the above is correct where would my 2nd reef lines run ?

Be gentle I’m a newcomer..... I have read through the other posts re reefing but have not seen anything like my set up.

Thank you

pd : unable to post image of drawing, but it is under my gallery on sailnet
 
#2 ·
Greetings,
I have a basic question on reefing with my present system set-up.
1. Is the red line path correct or should I tie off to the sliding eye?
The red path is wrong IMHO, you should probably tie the line around the boom if it is a loose-footed mainsail and then run it up to the reefing cringle and then back to one of the outermost sheaves on the boom, ignoring the eye and the cleat altogether.

2. My clew line is rope to wire.
A. Is the wire necessary?
B. Is there a block inside the boom ? I am unable to see inside the boom since the sheaves are riveted to the end and so are clutches at other end of boom.
The clew line is called an outhaul and it doesn't need to be wire. However, if you do decide to replace it with an all rope outhaul, make sure the sheaves are the right kind for rope. Sheaves for wire will have a v-shaped groove, those for rope will have a u-shaped groove in the sheave.

As for whether there is a block inside the boom...it really depends on how big your boat is. On a boat smaller than 25', I would tend to doubt it. On a boat bigger than 25' it is very likely.

3. If the above is correct where would my 2nd reef lines run ?
The second reefing line would tie to the boom and run up the other side of the sail from the first reefing line, through the reefing cringle and then down to the outermost sheave on the side opposite from the first reef.

For example, if the first reef goes up the port side of the sail and down to the outermost starboard sheave on the boom's end, the second would go up the starboard side of the sail and down to the outermost port side sheave on the end of the boom.

I hope this helps.
 
#4 ·
Greetings,
I have a basic question on reefing with my present system set-up.
1. Is the red line path correct or should I tie off to the sliding eye?
2. My clew line is rope to wire.
A. Is the wire necessary?
B. Is there a block inside the boom ? I am unable to see inside the boom since the sheaves are riveted to the end and so are clutches at other end of boom.
3. If the above is correct where would my 2nd reef lines run ?
....
Your setup looks wrong. I can't guess what the cleat you mention is for, perhaps a topping lift...a picture would help...but it wouldn't seem to be needed for reefing.

You should read this thread http://www.sailnet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36751 and set up your lines accordingly. I would expect that the sliding eye serves only to keep the reefing line in a certain position on the boom, the reefing line should be tied back to itself via a bowline, see my post in the above thread.

A rope-to-wire outhaul is not really necessary but it was a common approach.

As to whether there is tackle in the boom for the reefing line, probably not, especially if you are able to run the working end back to a winch which would provide any needed force. You can determine whether there is a block involved by seeing if trimming the reefing line x inches moves the end of the line by x inches... if the distance moved is the same, there are no blocks involved in the boom.

You install the second reef line just like the first, except it ties around the boom below the location of the second reef cringle in the leech.
 
#5 ·
SF-

I believe he was asking about a block inside the boom for the outhaul, not the reefing line. Other than that, your advice applies quite nicely. :) I've never seen a reefing line with a block in the boom.
 
#6 ·
B. Is there a block inside the boom ? I am unable to see inside the boom since the sheaves are riveted to the end and so are clutches at other end of boom.
If you need access to the block inside the boom (if indeed there is one), you will probably have to remove the casting that forms the end of the boom and which contains your outhaul and reefing sheaves. On boats I've looked at this casting is held in place by a couple of screws.

If there is no block you may want to install one -- the mechanical advantage makes it a lot easier to tighten the foot of the sail while closehauled.

Micheal
 
#7 ·
Thank you for all your responses....
Ok, I go from the sheaves at end of boom to reefing point down to boom and tie around boom. At mast end pull tight and secure...
Why not tie to the eye? wouild look neater(just my annal self) vs around boom.
If I understand the idea here is to pull back and down
And yes i guess the cleat is for the topping lift.

thank you again
 
#11 ·
Thank you for all your responses....
Ok, I go from the sheaves at end of boom to reefing point down to boom and tie around boom. At mast end pull tight and secure...
Why not tie to the eye? wouild look neater(just my annal self) vs around boom.
....
Why niot tie to the eye - I'm not sure the answer to that, except that the line tied back around itself does the job very well. One issue I would see with tie to an eye, is that the clew will be pulled to one side of the boom or the other, following the direction of the tightened reeffing line. Tieing the line per the directions seems to result in the clew being pulled down to the center of the boom.
 
#8 ·
There is a whole lot of force pulling up on the new (reefed) clew. You want the boom absorb it, not two screws holding the eye in place. If the out haul at the clew is wire and the out haul exiting the boom is line - you probably have a couple of blocks inside the boom. There is also a lot of force pulling on the outhaul so you probably still want to keep the wire portion. If anything, you may want to consider replacing the (Dacron) line with something like Vectran, Dymeena, or Tecnora. I did, and it made a big difference on outhaul control.
 
#9 ·
The major advantage of replacing the dacron line with something a bit higher tech, like dyneema or spectra, is that it will stretch less. That means the outhaul will be more effective at keeping the sails flat as the wind picks up.
 
#10 ·
I believe he was asking about a block inside the boom for the outhaul, not the reefing line. Other than that, your advice applies quite nicely. I've never seen a reefing line with a block in the boom.
Isomat booms were made with shuttles inside the boom. Two-line reefing system. Was standard on a lot of boats. A lot of people have converted it to single line. The OE shuttles tended to jam.

MiVelero: Does your red line run through the boom - i.e.: does it come out of the boom at the gooseneck ? Are there sheaves there ?
 
#12 ·
George B"There is a whole lot of force pulling up on the new (reefed) clew. You want the boom absorb it, not two screws holding the eye in place."
That makes sense, but what would be the eye for? It slides on a track along the top of boom.
Sailingfool- as above the eye sits in the middle of the boom and slides along the top. I don't know if I am missing something but several mention "the line tied back around itself " would it going around the boom or the eye still costitute tied around self ? or is this just a matter of symantics...
Regardless tied around boom makes sense when considering the forces placed on this line.

Sailingdog - I just replaced all my lines with New England Ropes Sta-Set 7/16 in.
Sailormann - all lines run through the boom and exit at the goose neck through rope clutches.

My experience was with 30knt winds and reefed as I described above, fortunately it held, I guess beginers luck. I know that is just a puff for you old salts, but to me it was the 'big one.' At the time I was more worried about the lighting than the wind.
Thank you again for all your input, this site has been a great resource for my learning, unfortunately the majority of sailors around my area (that I have met) are not to anxious to share their knowledge without $$$$.
 
#13 ·
Mivelero-

Are the ropes exiting through rope clutches or through line stoppers (basically a one-sided cam cleat which jams the line against the sheave).

Tying the rope around the boom is just a lot safer than using a small padeye. If the screws and track didn't hold, you'd run the risk of losing the main sail and you'd also have a little metal padeye getting shot off the boom under fairly high loads.
 
#14 ·
Mivelero-

Are the ropes exiting through rope clutches or through line stoppers (basically a one-sided cam cleat which jams the line against the sheave).

Tying the rope around the boom is just a lot safer than using a small padeye. If the screws and track didn't hold, you'd run the risk of losing the main sail and you'd also have a little metal padeye getting shot off the boom under fairly high loads.
They exit at the goose neck via rope clutches.
After all the good information is taken into account.... I guess the line tied around the boom does not look too bad :D
 
#15 ·
Does it look something like this:



If so, those aren't line clutches...

These are line clutches:



Most booms have the former, not real line clutches, more of a cam cleat that jams against the sheave.
 
#16 ·
I stand corrected... see I learn something new... I guess they are cam cleats.
In the cockpit I have line clutches, now I see the difference.
I see the one you pictured has rivets securing it to the boom as does mine.
I have been leary starting to change my out haul if it goes thru a block and I can't get to it. I have replaced all my lines exept the outhaul and reefing lines. I hate to create new problems.
 
#17 ·
....I have been leary starting to change my out haul if it goes thru a block and I can't get to it. I have replaced all my lines exept the outhaul and reefing lines. I hate to create new problems.
MiVelero; the good news is that your in-boom outhaul tackle has spent its life sheltered from the elements, and is likely in good shape. The pennant (wire or line?) that attaches to the sail (and rides the boom end sheave) may be worn. If you remove the end cap on the boom, you should have enough tail on the outhaul to extend it aft to the point that you can change that pennant without upsetting the tackle which is anchored further down the boom. Just be careful not to pull the tail end into the boom itself (use a stopper knot there)
 
#18 ·
They're not actually called cam cleats...but that's a pretty good description of how they work. I'm not sure what the exact technical term for them is though.. :D
 
#20 ·
MiVelero, I don't recall what the make/model your boat is. Are both of your boom's end caps pop riveted on? What I suspect is you have some sort of cascading block system inside your boom that increases the purchase of your outhaul line. Unfortunately I don't have any way of converting a paper drawing to a digital format to illustrate this for you. What I think is happening on your boat is the wire outhaul connects to a block inside the boom. The Dacron line you use to tension the outhaul runs through that block and another one connected to gooseneck end. This gives you the purchase (I have 3-1 purchase inside the boom). The old wire-to-rope halyards common years ago weren't used in this application. I truly think that you will have to "bust off" one of the end caps to do what you want to do.
<O:p
Earlier, you made a comment about your "ring" that intrigues me. You referred to a track that was fastened to the top of the boom and the ring slid along that track. Do you think that this was more to do with an outhaul car than something to do with reefing? Normally, the rings I see are mounted on the side of the boom and the force involved is in shear rather than tension as it would be if the ring was on top of the boom. Tying the reef line around the boom is pretty simple (and economical) even for a sail with a boltrope. All you need to do is set a grommet at the boltrope so the reef line can pass through the sail. You can do this yourself with a grommet set or have your local sailmaker do it for you. (most probably he can do it while you wait.)<O:p
 
#22 · (Edited)
This might help. Make sure that you don't have your boom upside down as there are tracks on the top and on the bottom of the Isomat boom, and the movable eyes that you are describing usually run along the bottom track...

Ignore the shuttleblock inside the boom, and you'll need to feed the the line from the gooseneck down through a tturning block and then back up through the sail, but it's pretty simple...

 
#25 ·
Sailormann- Just curious. In your diagram of the boom / reef line, they don't show any tack reefing lines - just the 1st and 2nd reef lines for the clew. What would be the typicla setup for the tack?
My 30' boat has no lines inside the boom, but I would like to see how this is set up.
 
#29 ·
Sailormann- Just curious. In your diagram of the boom / reef line, they don't show any tack reefing lines - just the 1st and 2nd reef lines for the clew. What would be the typicla setup for the tack?
My 30' boat has no lines inside the boom, but I would like to see how this is set up.
Sailormann's picture is of a single line reefing setup - it shows a single heading up the luff, the system does not use a reef hook. If you read the text it mentions the reefing line (r.l.) terminates in a stopknot in the luff reef cringle.

I would not open up the boom to mess with your outhaul unless your boat has been subject to a lot of wear-and-tear and you have run out of other things to fix.
 
#26 ·
Northeaster - most use tack hooks at the gooseneck for the tack while reefing. But you could use a similar system to a cunningham to rig up cockpit-led tack reef lines.
 
#28 ·
On a 34 foot Hunter I'd expect at least a 4 part - hopefully a 6 part purchase inside the boom (similar to the mainsheet but smaller line). The aft end of the tackle will be shackled to the wire that comes out the boom end sheave and attaches to your mainsail clew.

You can check how many parts it is by seeing how much line you need to pull to get, say, an inch (2.5 cm) of outhaul travel. If it takes 6 inches of pull to get 1 inch, you have a 6:1 tackle.

By re-reeving I meant you need to run your new line properly through both blocks inside the boom. Since the bitter end of the tackle is on one of the blocks inside you'll have to get at that. This will require removing the rivets and pulling the boom off the end cap.

Rivets can be replaced with the proper tool and appropriate "pop" rivet style fittings. Make sure they are aluminum or stainless steel and of adequate size and strength. Alternately you may be able to thread the holes in the end cap casting and use machine screws.

This is certainly something you can do yourself, and yes, sinking the boat is not something you need to worry about (at least for that project!<G>)
 
#31 ·
MiVelero-

Re-reeve is just a nautical way of saying you're replacing a line. :D

Northeaster-

Might want to read this page about why you really should use a two-line reefing system, rather than a single-line reefing system.
 
#32 ·
:eek:
I just looked on the boat, with all your advice in mind, and decided I will leave things the way they are for now. Taking off the boom seems inevitable and I do not think the condition of the lines warrant this task.
I can't believe they would make it so difficult for such a simple thing...
I took some pictures of both ends, and the sliding eye that I'm still curious as to its purpose.
They are in my gallery, I still can't post a link.

Sailormann -"Make sure that you don't have your boom upside down as there are tracks on the top and on the bottom of the Isomat boom, and the movable eyes that you are describing usually run along the bottom track..."

The way the sheaves on the aft end are set up it appears to be right...??

Thank you, all have been extremely helpful .:)
 
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