[max-on]

Well said.

Originally Posted by HoffaLives

there is no relationship between men dying, placed in harm's way by the proven lies of a corrupt administration and a thousands-of-years-old tradition the roots of which aren't even american. and i think you do these men a great disservice when you suggest that they are dying for the right of americans to spend money on the materialistic binge that this season has become.

are there good feelings at xmas? sure. but you have to examine it deeper, look at the consequences, ramifications, and what it means on a greater context, rather then just liking the pretty lights.

the notion that this what we are so celebrate it, is too simple, and one of the reasons 'the season' has so thoroughly been co-opted by commercial interests. people don't question what and why they are doing.

are the western values worth preserving and even defending? absolutely - the right to think and question, to behave according to one's values, pursue truth and meaning as one defines them, critique those in power, seek equality for all, and on and on. there might even have been important values in christmas once upon a time, but today...

given the points i made about economics, values and the environment, the material traditions of this season have become diametric to the values it supposedly espouses.

besides, if those values are important, we should be living them every day, not just duringthe winter solstice. that's what i try to do anyway, and so i don't get all the hoopla about the season, much less the material orgy. i do practice love to all that i meet, and unfortunately i don't find a lot of reciprocity out there. folks are too stressed i guess from all the money they spend and the debt they racked up last xmas.

anyway, this is supposed to be a sailing thread so let's see...jesus was a sailor?