[RAGNAR]

Originally Posted by cardiacpaul

spend a while in the real world.

Time in the real world?

The reason medical bills are so high is because of this interference by Gov in the name of people they insult as unable.

My claim isn't that a private system would be able to make anyone immortal, or afford anyone more than he can afford. My claim is that freeing the system would provide the best possible care across the income board.

Separate from that fact but far more important, is the injustice of assuming that one is entitled to the benefits of other people's wealth. I don't need rights when in Nirvana. I need him in the real world, to protect me from people who assume I'm here to serve their needs, on their terms, with a tone of self-righteousness that's usually an indication that they know they're wrong.

Without medicare and supplimental insurance (out of pocket about 4300.00 a year...medicare, insurance, deductibles, and co-pays.), my medications alone would be a bit over 1400.00 per month.

OK.

So what?

Most crucial is the fact that the ridiculously high prices of healthcare are largely due to Gov interference, so pointing out that you're in the middle of a related mess doesn't counter the claim that a free system would afford everyone far better healthcare.

Further, there's no Right to immortality, no right to all possible healthcare, paid for by others by expropriating money from them, no right to any and all developments in the medical field if you can't afford them.

You scream of the indecency of expecting people to stand on their own. What of the indecency of forcing other people to come to your rescue?

In addition, all things are finite. At some point one runs out of the resources to fight a serious ailment and that's that -- irrespective of whether or not having more resources would've extended one's life Where do see the possibility for endless care, and how is it that others have to sacrifice their standard of living to afford someone the medical coverage of a higher standard of living?

Apparently you've never had a medical problem, or been so silver-spooned, you have no idea about costs.

Apparently, you don't get how irrelevant this is, to say nothing of cheap. It's also wrong.

B]R:[/b] Any impact prior medical history has on anyone's employment options stems from the disasters that follow from the political mentality behind our pathetic healthcare system.
CP: Bullshite.
I've had hiring managers tell me I would be a huge insurance liability. Imagine if you will, if I'm driving to a clients site and I have another "cardiac event" and run into someone, who gets sued?
Imagine I'm banging away at a clients keyboard, and I have a cardiac event, falling face first onto their keyboard, who get sued for emotional distreaa? not me. Therefore, liability issues. That may or not be the gov'ts faule, I don't know, and I don't care, all I know is you have a hard time securing gainful employment afterward, (dick cheney not withstanding)

So you declare my POV bullshite, go into a tirade, then declare that you don't know if it's Gov's fault?

Excellent!

It is Gov's fault. It's also the fault of the mentality of victimhood and wealth redistribution through unwarranted lawsuits, the same mentality behind public healthcare and the Nanny State in general.

Ahh, my myopic friend. I had, I paid, I purchased, I planned. I took steps. I did what any prudent person would do. And ~ Its not enough. period.

The fact that you may have done all a prudent person could do doesn't mean that Gov isn't to blame for all that effort not being enough.

Further, you didn't do all you could, as examining this issue would make clear that the fight is against Gov interference, not freedom. I'm not advocating an abandonment of the current system at the expense of people that have done all they could, and now have a reasonable expectation that they'll be taken care of. My point is simple: a free medical field, like all fields, affords us unimaginable service/$. My assertion is that even if this wasn't the case, which it is, I don't see how that entitles anyone to more than he's been able to earn.

Are you saying that those who have keep and those who don't fend for themselves?

I'm saying that if be go back to a Gov-free healthcare system, we'd have far better healthcare. We'd also have a dignified society, where everyone's problems aren't everyone's burden by "Right."

BTW: who promised you endless healthcare, or enough to get you to a certain age? Open ended agreements are null. There's no such thing. All agreements are finite, and therefore, even under a free system, people would be limited by what they can afford. All we can do is mazimize what htey can afford by embracing the only approach that yields the best possible service.

Only Gov makes open ended pledges and, not surprisingly, can't deliver.

R: "Unless you turn off the presumptions and psychologizing, we're done here. Unless you stop pointing to the horrible consequences of government interference and attributing them to freedom, I can't see that I have much else to say."

CP: I have seen first hand the "presumptions" of which you speak.
I have been involved with the deregulation of telecom. I also can see where SWB nee At&T has once again monopolized the industry, LDC, ILEC and Cell. Was this the intent of Judge Green? I doubt it.

I have first hand knowledge of the health care crisis in the US and of government intervention in same and in MY life.

But how does this experience translate to valid conclusion? Being there and not knowing why it is as it is, and what it should be, doesn't add up to much.

I don't see where your opinions are any more than the rantings of a libertarian

I'm not a libertarian -- not doing well on the presumptions, are we?

that has no experience of any concequence.

How would you know this?

And of what use is experience without the requisite mindset to know what to do with that experience?

Also, note how easy it would be to dismiss everything you've written by declaring you biassed, or reducing your points as the ramblings of a Leftie, etc.

Make points, man.

The futility of such presumptions is why such presumptions are -- WHERE -- considered ill-mannered. It wasn't to spare the feelings of the person you assume to analyze, it was spare yourself the embarrassment of thinking you could have such powers.

It all looks good on paper, in practice, its all good, till something happens to YOU

.

Only if you're a child that's convinced that your problems are the world's, in spite of the fact that that mindset is why things aren't anywhere near as good as they could be.

So, I agree, we're done.

You never showed, bro.