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Young couple seeking advice, buying first time cruiser

7K views 30 replies 16 participants last post by  SailNet Archive 
#1 ·
Hello! We're a couple in our early twenties, VERY NEW to sailing, but we have the opportunity to purchase a boat and are anxious to grab hold of the cruising dream! We want to buy a liveaboard cruiser to sail the Puget Sound, from WA to Mexico, and maybe in a few years WA to Hawaii. We're looking for a boat within the $10,000 price range and have our eyes on two local boats. We're hoping for some advice from more experienced sailors on which would be the best to purchase and anything we should keep our eyes during the surveyor/purchasing process.
The first is a 1977 30' San Juan, displacement:7200, ballast:3500
The second is a 1971 30' Islander, displacement approx:6800, ballast approx:2800

Thank you!!
 
#2 ·
Welcome to sailnet - both are somewhat respectable cruisers... however, at less than 10K, you are either budget constrained or have good ambitions further..you must get a good surveyor before putting your hard earned dollars on one or the either... and you should budget an additional 5-10K for fixing those things that will need be addressed. For PNW cruising those boats are reasonable however, depending on condition may not be suitable for a sail down the coast...
 
#3 ·
The san juan is not a great choice for off shore it is an old IOR race boat and just not designed for that, to tender. You need lots of rail meat that you wont have cruising. Don't get me wrong I love all the San juan boats and the builder Clark boat company. Having done the WA to Mexico trip i would not do it in a San Juan 30 but it would be a great weekend and summer vacation boat for local cruising in your area.
 
#4 ·
Da%mn, Artbyjody is right spot on. I wish i could'a said that.


rather than an islander 3o, I'd look at the 36'ers. I think there's 3 boats made on the islander 30 mold, Erickson, and ...well, another one that I can't remember.

The 36 was made by only one yard (maybe the herrscoff yard) and the work was pretty good. The 30's on this mold had chainplate problems and usually need to be reseated. Watch for soft decks at the shrouds.
 
#5 · (Edited)
Honestly, as 1/2 of a young cruising couple (with a 30 footer) I would have to say buy either of those boats, and sail the heck out of them, but stay within sight of land! The trips you are thinking about are not easy, and will require a refit of any older boat. Once that has been done you will find you have more money in the sails, rigging, paint, electrical, diesel than the boat as a whole is worth. Either buy one now, sail it, learn and grow with it or buy something that is truly worth dumping money into. In the 30 foot range, based on my experiences looking for the right boat nothing at less than 20k was suitable... Of course, there are always those that make it amazing distances in boats most people would consider unsuitable. Just make sure you have your priorities figured out. I agree with jimmy, IOR boats wouldn't make my top 10 list for cruising.

BTW: About dreams and cruising. My cousin and his GF were dead set on buying a boat and sailing from Frisco to Hawaii. His sailing experience was a sunfish and hers was nothing. He agreed to crew for me from Frisco to Sitka. About 3 days out he started freaking out telling me he couldn't take it etc etc... so Instead of sailing off shore I changed plans to bashing up in 2 days coastal stretches. Pretty sure he isn't going to be passage making any time soon. Along the way I also met more than a few cruising couples and families, all in well appointed yachts that were quite disillusioned with the whole thing. Spending 2 weeks, sometimes in misery, to make the same distance you could drive in 2 days doesn't appeal to a lot of people. Get a blood test to make sure you got some salt in there, or at least don't put all your eggs in one boat so to speak. I'm just about 3 years ahead of where you are in this process, so keep in touch.
 
#7 ·
For the money that your talking about, its going to be very limiting to find a suitable boat. One that "popped" to mind is a Tartan 27. Although smallish and old, but it is very suitable, besides, your young and in love....right???:D
You'll need to find one in good condition, or be handy at DIY, but you can find decent ones under 10k.
 
#8 ·
Jody gave some very good advice, and I would have said as much... :) Of the two, I'd vote for the Islander 30... but I think that Ehmanta's suggestion of a Tartan 27 is a very, very good one.

The Tartan 27 is in that price range. While it is a bit smaller than the two you're looking at, it is a very good choice for a smaller pocket cruiser. There's an excellent book, The Coast of Summer, by Anthony Bailey, about his sailing in a Tartan 27 along the New England coastline.

Welcome to sailnet, and I highly suggest you read the post in my Signature to help you get the most out of your time on sailnet.
 
#10 ·
Great idea. I am working on a similar dream. I love the SJ 30s. I would get one and coastal cruise. The SJ 30 has a relatively flat bottom and I believe it could turtle. While sailing the SJ, you could get a better feel for what you need and keep your eye out for a more appropriate offshore capable boat before heading to Mexico.
 
#11 ·
I shopped with my daughter and son-in-law for their first boat in the Puget Sound area last summer. They had a similar price range. We sifted through a lot of chafe before finding a reasonably maintained little cruiser.

Reaslistically, you'll probably end up buying two boats. The first one to make all your mistakes in while sailing locally, the second one when you have a better idea what you like and dislike.
 
#12 ·
I have a SJ24 and have raced an SJ28 and SJ30 they are all old IOR boats narrow with lots of sail area. They all do the death roll down wind and are quite tender. No they won’t turtle LOL they tend to be quite wet and with a narrow bow and stern they like to dive into waves when beating to windward. When racing in above 20 knots I quite often have blue water to the mast. They are all great club race boats and local cursers but not built strong enough or designed for off shore. If this is still the boat you like look at a shock Santana 3030PC early to mid 80s. faster and will be my next boat.
 
#13 ·
Thanks, more ?

Thanks for everyone's honesty. It's immensely helpful. I have more questions.
We have a total budget of $20,000.We wanted to spend $10,000 on a boat, and $10,000 on: life raft, electronics, repairs, sails/rigging, possibly a watermaker and solarpanels.
We plan to do an extensive amount of sailing before purchasing, but this is going to be a leap of faith.
Would it be better to spend more money on a boat and save later for the other stuff? Could we make a trip from WA to Mexico spending more on a boat and less on extra stuff? What would be a more appropriate budget? THANKS!
 
#14 ·
Thanks for everyone's honesty. It's immensely helpful. I have more questions.
We have a total budget of $20,000.We wanted to spend $10,000 on a boat, and $10,000 on: life raft, electronics, repairs, sails/rigging, possibly a watermaker and solarpanels.
We plan to do an extensive amount of sailing before purchasing, but this is going to be a leap of faith.
Would it be better to spend more money on a boat and save later for the other stuff? Could we make a trip from WA to Mexico spending more on a boat and less on extra stuff? What would be a more appropriate budget? THANKS!
That is a healthy question.

In general two factors to consider when judging boats:

1. Older usually means cheaper and if it has been actually cruised you will find more gear onboard. It also means that you potentially have more maintenance issues depending on the upkeep of such items and the boat itself. So you pay more but maybe save a little on the extras that are included because in reality - additional gear doesn't really equate to much on the resale value in most cases - just allows a boat to stand out over others similarly listed.

2. Finding a boat that you want to upgrade however, is a costly expense - for example - if you have not priced watermakers - they are one of the most expensive pieces of gear to have on board. If I recall correctly somewhere in the 8-12K region and that assumes that its a DIY install. Solar - you are still loking at around 1-3K minimum entry point. Unless you get lucky and find working used condition items.

In the end, you need to find a boat that YOU are comfortable with. Do not by a vessel without spending a few ours test sailing - and get involved in the process. MY approach when buying is to find everything I hate or is troublesome..then after all things are evaluated determine how much of the items I can not stand relate to my sailing habits.

The problem with your question - is there is no right answer. Look for a boat that suits your tastes, habits, and potentially has most of the gear you want upfront. Because every item you add is more time away from sailing - and for a new to you purchase, it can kinda kill both your motivation as well as budget.
 
#17 ·
I would suggest you read Sensible Cruising by Don Casey and Cost Conscious Cruiser by Lin and Larry Pardey. They won't suggest boats as much but offer some ideas about what to look for. In fact pretty much anything by these 3 authors would be good.

Also, look at reviews and articles here on Sailnet. All are excellent in my opinion and best of all the Sailnet articles are free.

You can also look here for some specifis boats BoatUS Boat Reviews
 
#18 ·
As a comparison, we are spending almost double your entire budget to outfit a boat about twenty years newer boat for this year's Pacific Cup. Granted, we do need to pass safety inspections and need to pass muster with our insurance company, but suffice to say, outfitting a boat for long distance is expensive. Generally, boats that I see in your price range (and age) are going to require a lot of work and basic things (excluding cruising gear) can easily run $10k. The market place for boats is pretty efficient and I doubt that you will find a boat anywhere near "cruise away" condition in your price range. I don't know you and I don't know what your comfort level is and perhaps you can make do with a lot less than I can. Lin and Larry Pardey are famous for cruising on little to no money. Read their books to see how they do it. They're style of cruising is a bit too ascetic for my tastes, especially after I took a tour of their boat in last year's Jack London show.
 
#19 ·
Consider some of the problems you are very likely to encounter on a 30ft10K boat:
Complete bottom job w/blister repair (2-3K)
Engine, even small things like waterpumps and exhaust elbows will put you at 1K up to 8K for a re power.
Rig: 1-2K easy
Sails: you can get used, but a good cruising main/ jib is going to be 2k per sail
Electrical: even the most simple jobs quickly turn into costly nightmares
Fittings: Thruhulls, figure $100-200 per thruhull if they need to be replaced

See where this is going? When you start talking watermakers and liferafts, to be frightfully honest, I get the sense you guys haven't done your homework. My experience has shown, doing all work myself, starting at with a reasonably well maintained boat, with discounted parts that a reliable 30 foot cruiser is going to end up in the 30-40k range. This is without a liferaft, water maker, or any other luxury item. Things do get simple fast when you downsize. I have no doubt a Vega, Triton or Contessa 26 would get you well within your budget, but things get so expensive so fast!!! From San Diego to Washington for instance, I spent $1,900 on repairing broken equipment alone, not to mention fuel (mainsail, autopilot, and alternator). And I thought my boat was ready!!! Approach these things with great skepticism, but keep your dream. I really, firmly, really, advocate the idea of getting a boat to learn on, even live aboard, first.
 
#21 ·
An eternal optimist, I am not; however I do have dreams of taking 10 days and triple the cost to get the same place a plane could take me in 2 hours. On the east coast, I am talking about Bermuda. We are also a relatively young couple, what it was like to be just out of college... the potential, who would like to do some extensive cruising. Regardless of what boat you purchase as I don't think it matters that much to you at this stage, here is how we have gotten started.

1. Establish the passion, I love the screen shots of a heeled vessel pinching the wind. This does happen, but definately not all the time. After a few charters and day rentals, we have managed to abuse other peoples property and learn sailing in heavy weather, discovered my wife gets sea sick, Real seamanship sailing the same waters as large ships, tugs and fishing vessels, Really long nights where you pray for daylight, heavy weather at night scares the ***** out of me. You get the idea, we have been through a lot and we are both 100% joyed to keep going.

2. Devise a metered approach. We have yearly goals building up to the big trip. These are fun trip which build our skills and knowledge of the boat while keeping things intresting. Cant say much about this we are just starting this stage. I can say I was quite comfortable pushing the big trip out a few years. The boat you use for this is like you first girlfriend ... if only I know what I know now. I am only on my first mine all mine boat, so again only initial reaction.

3. Love you youth and take advantage of it..... you have time, use it to your advantage. belive me when I say being a little older does not decrease the enjoyment. I still listen to SKA and reggae with an extra dose of Bob first thing in the morning as the wake up call "Three Little Birds". If its important to you and you have the passion, you will do it. Awsome you are starting so soon in life.

Reread ERBS posting, I can very much relate. With that said there was a great book I believe by Casey or Sailing Mag which reviews 20 inexpensive boats you can sail anywhere. You can find this and several others on Amazon. Try to go and look at every one of them, you will know very quickly what you like and dont like, get what you like you will have to live with it. With that said, go to it and one day we may meet around the Horn of Africa. Hope this helps.

flatfoot
 
#22 ·
The book Flatfoot is referring to is John Vigor's "20 Small Sailboats to Take You Anywhere".
 
#23 ·
Have the boat surveyed by a reputable agent of YOUR choosing. You pay them and they have a fiduciary responsibility to you. Second, you don't really want a so called "fast" boat unless you are going to be racing, the difference in speed won't make much difference to a cruiser, that said, faster may tip the balance if all the other considerations are equal. Extra equipment is always a plus, an inflatable, newer electronics etc, you can spend a bunch here and not have a lot of hardware to show for it. Finally YOU have to like the looks of your boat, no one else(until you go to sell it), you want to look back down the dock for the years to come and think she is still as pretty as the day you bought her. Both are fine boats, which do you like? Wes Carroll
 
#24 ·
Thanks for the correction Sailingdog.
Check out the book and look at the boats. We ended up with a Catalina 30, realatively inexpensive, easy sail, and looking forward to keeping her aproximately 20 miles offshore. I know... I know, we each have our definition of coastal cruising. wife like it, I like most things about it, easier than most to sell later on, accepts 1 more crew easily (I dont know how folks can just start out doing, these insanely long watch standing). The biggest shock for me is how lonely and scary are cold big waves off the NJ coast at a night. Easy to sail is very important to me, keep in mind, I have to sail on my own if no other crew and wife wants to relax. I make a point to keep her happy, her company and positive mental attitude is worth more to me that her crewing ability. good luck.

flatfoot
 
#25 ·
I would not leave the Puget Sound waters with either boat until each of you learned to sail YOUR sailboat well. There is so much to learn about sailing that you NEED to learn completely. Where are you going to moor your sailboat?
The entire Puget Sound area is difficult to find affordable moorage. You might think about securing boat moorage BEFORE you purchase anything. If you are thinking about a liveaboard vessel, purchase the one with the most interior storage and plan on renting another storage facility to house all the articles you can't bring onboard. Either the SJ 30 or the Islander 30 would be fine to learn to sail in the PNW waterways.
There are many vessels available in the PNW. You might also keep an eye out in the Portland metro area. Boats are several thousand $$ cheaper there. Keep looking a while longer until you have seen the Good, the Bad & the Ugly boats in your area. You will know which boat is for you after the survey is complete.


Astoria, OR
SV Doodles
C&C 27
 
#26 ·
A side note on that heavy weather at night comment. Yeah, definitely. No pause button. Not even a shoulder to pull off the road and take a break til it passes. If you're gonna make passages, you're gonna catch rough weather at some point. It wouldn't hurt to get in with something smaller and see if it really sticks before getting in deep with a cruiser.
 
#27 ·
SharpDreamer:
Do you have a way of earning $$$ while underway? If so, many of the upgrades can take place over time and as you travel.
I agree that you should stick to the PNW while learning your boat and how to sail. As they say, there's no substitute for experience.
In the price range you are considering, ANY boat will need upgrading and as it has been pointed out, your upgrades will quickly erode that 10k that you have budgeted for the upgrades.
small liferaft: 2.5k
watermaker: 2 - 3k
sails, main/jib 4k
new depth/speed/wind at least 1k
vhf $200
radar 3k
anchor/rode 500-600 depending on selection
Dodger/bimini 3-4k

As you can see, you can rack up some serious $$$ without getting into the details, such as fasteners and maintenance
stuff.
Don't loose the dream, just keep a realistic vision.:rolleyes:
 
#28 ·
Most of my 40-years of sailing has been offshore (Marion to Hamilton, Galveston to Vera Cruz, etc.) I've been caught in two Force 10 storms, in parts of the Gulf of Mexico that I would never have expected them, one storm we were only about 30 miles offshore, but no place to pass through the barrier islands to reach safe harbor, so we were stuck in the storm for 36 hours. So, if you eventually plan to sail outside of the big bays - long voyages, buy whatever want now - become good sailors, then later spend what it takes to get a boat that if you do get caught in a gale (and if you sail offshore long enough, you will), you'll make it through. Stronger bluewater boats don't have to be big, 40-footers, they just need to be built for extended offshore sailing, strong enough to carry you safely through really bad weather. The couple of boats you are looking at now, won't do that.
 
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