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Small Liveaboard Cat search

57K views 72 replies 18 participants last post by  djeeke 
#1 ·
Hello,

After a post on the FP Louisiane I am redirecting my search with a more general thread which seems a lot smarter (I guess I learn fast ?) !

We own a 27 ft monohull but consider switching to a Cat for liveaboard and extended cruising...

My budget for the boat... good one... in the range of 100 to 120k Euro...
Would look at buying in the 50-80k range so there would be plenty of room left for some improvements... (there always are improvements and unforeseen expenses)

We intend, once we have the boat, to move on and start sailing, we would not want it as a day or weekend sailer, I have my Jaguar 27 monohull that does this job perfectly, it easily allows us to go on extended weekends or even longer vacations...
Once liveaboard we will be dependent on our investments income and I want this to be on the safe side...
So every Euro spent is a Euro away from our liveaboard plan, if we are able to get a good cat ready to go for 100k(Euro's) that's where we will go, to the sooner the better. (but will not compromise on safety, maintenance, equipment etc... the boat should be in great shape when we leave)

We would plan on doing some coastal sailing as a start, region and schedule undefined, could be here in Europe, Africa, US, name it... Does not really matter, sailing is great !!! Last year we talked with an English skipper who had been sailing for 7 years, initially left the UK and now sailing Turkey, but hell he enjoyed every minute of it... So a timing on planning to start ocean crossings we can not give. But if the cat we buy would be circumnavigation capable it would avoid us having to trade boats when we decide to go for it.

How well do they it sail? Anybody has a polar or can tell us how she does windward? What speeds can be obtained while cruising? How easy they sail (singlehanded?)... (after all we will be looking at older Cat's)

If it has a dual diesel inboard setup, we are Ok with this... If we find one with outboard engine setup, I initially was not thrilled about this but after thinking a bit it doesn't look too bad... We would probably replace the outboards with a dual electrical outboard setup. We see outboard engines as inside space savers. Electrical setup means instant access to silent power, no need to bother about thinking of emergence engine start in case something happens, just move the throttle and motor off... Does this sound crazy?
Would put one on the dinghy as well so no gasoline required in the boat! A diesel gen unit could be used if we really drain the batteries down. (otherwise battery charge through wind/solar system or shore power) And since a diesel gen would bring Mr Diesel on board, Mr webasto will nicely heat up our entire boat as he does on our monohull !...

It looks like the Benetteau II might be a better candidate than the FP louisiane... Any other candidates ? Oh yes, required headroom... We are 5' 8" and 5' 9" (The Mrs and me that is ;-)

Ending this initial post on this one, hope to get interesting feedback and comments...
 
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#3 · (Edited)
There are a lot of small catamarans that are fairly seaworthy. A 32'-35' catamaran is going to have significantly more living space than a monohull of the same LOA. They're have about the equivalent living space of a 45' monohull or so.

Some small catamarans to consider:

Gemini
Catalac
Iroquois
FP Maldives
Lagoon 35
PDQ 32 Altair
PDQ 34
FP Tobago 35
Lightwave 35

Most of these have crossed oceans, but were not specifically designed as bluewater cruisers.

I would recommend that you read several books on multihulls, since, by the sounds of it, you don't have much multihull experience.

Chris White's The Cruising Multihull
Mike Mullen's Multihull Seamanship

Be aware that there are some significant differences in sailing techniques and tactics for a multihull, versus a monohull. For instance: A multihull reefs for the peak wind speeds as a general rule, where a monohull usually reefs for the average wind speed and handles the gusts by heeling.

There are also some things that you may find unusual about multihulls, due to their design and constraints. For example, the rigging and gear on a multihull is often larger than that on a similar LOA monohull-a Dehler 33 has Lewmar ST30s as their primary genoa winches, where a Telstar 28 has Lewmar ST40s as the genoa winches. This is because a monohull doesn't generate as much force on the sails due to its ability to heel and bleed off excess wind. A multihull doesn't bleed off excess wind by heeling, and generally will accelerate in a puff or gust rather than heel. This is more true for catamarans, which heel far less than even trimarans do.
 
#4 ·
Thanks for the feedback sailingdog !

You're absolutely right !
Only sailing experience on a cat was last years vacation on a chartered Leopard 47...

I will certainly get a hold of those books !

And will start browsing for the boats you mentioned, we know smaller is cheaper (a lot) but we don't want to be cramped inside the boat either, especially since we want to live on it !
So if we think we would end up too small, we would just wait one or two years...

Anyway, nothing of this in the coming weeks, I'm off for some sailing in Italy (on a monohull again this time)...

Catch you all when I get back !
Djeeke
 
#5 ·
Forgot to add the Seawind 1000/1100 catamarans to the list above. They're built in Oz...and come to the States and EU on their own power usually.
 
#9 ·
The major problem with most of the Wharram catamarans is that they are home-built, often of non-marine-grade plywood, and as such will often have far more serious maintenance problems than a production catamaran that is made of fiberglass. Granted, some of the home-built boats can be absolutely stunning and with detail and quality far surpassing that of a standard production boat-Steelboat's s/v Restless is one that comes to mind-but that is generally a very rare exception.
 
#10 ·
Still alive....

Hi you all...

I have been silent for some time due to some drastic changes in my life :( but am still dreaming...
And we still want to live our dream so reviving the thread !!! :D
Our budget has been cut quite a bit :( but we can still go for a bit older (and I guess a bit smaller) boat than originally planned.

We had a look around and saw a 32ft Iroquois (listed on yachtworld, located in Italy) and one listed on pacificbrokers (named Skana Sting, located BC) that could be possible candidates.

So any Iroquois owners (and people who have sailed them), please feel welcome to give us some feedback on this boat... (I read somewhere the sailplan could be improved and the Iroquois might have tendancy to lift a hull (capsize danger?))

Would there be room to install a shower ?
With the outboard engines, how to best produce electricity for the appliances? (I am still thinking converting to electrical and installing a diesel gen but am afraid this smaller cat will not be able to cope with the extra weight of the batteries and generator so maybe keeping the outboards and just installing a smaller gen would be a better choice)

Is there a big difference in space and carrying capacity between the 30 and 32 ft Iroquois? If not, obviously there are some 30ft ones on the market as well that could be interesting...

Anyway, many thanks for any feedback, keep in mind we are looking for a liveaboard boat ! :D
 
#11 ·
Head room and bridge deck clearance...

The eternal compromise. In cats under about 40 feet it is tough to get both. The PDQ 32 and Maldives 32 get by having a sliding roof and hard bimini, but it does not work if the weather is cold. If the slider is closed, there is about 5'3" head room in both, I think. The PDQ 36, being larger, has headroom.

The Gemini solves the problem by lowering the bridge clearance to ~ 4"-6" when loaded. They can slap in harbors and at anchor. And some people love them, because they pack a lot of room in a small package for little $$.

Someone must have mentioned beam: go over ~16' and slips are not generally available.

Consider heating if you have a winter. Some multihulls are designed as though everyone lives in the tropics, or lays up 7 months a year. To live aboard, you need to be able to button-up. You need a real door, not an afterthought.
 
#12 ·
Hobart 900 Catamaran

Hi !

Anybody any info / ideas on the Hobart 900 Catamaran ?
I just saw one for sale in France on multisailing.com reference 26630

Thx !
Djeeke
 
#13 ·
I am seriously looking at a Seawind 1000XL for coastal cruising for my wife and I, and occasionally with our 8 year old twins. Will also do a lot of single handed sailing in Long Island Sound. My mooring space is constrained to 36 feet. Would love any input, both positive and negative on the boat. Thanks
 
#15 ·
Selkirk, you're forgiven, now let us continue to be lazy and call our boats cat's.

Seawinds make excellent boats and liveaboards. I went with my Gemini for several reasons, all design related (vs cost).

Climbing out of the cockpit to go forward, I didn't like the SW, the Gem's more open.
Side decks are narrower on a SW.
I'm really opposed to the twin outboards in wells, they just don't make the amps, and require gas vs diesel.
Beam was too much to ever get a normal slip, and cat slips cost too much on a continuous basis.
The fridge is electric only, and in the master cabin.

Those were my notes from the tour at the boat show.

They (SW) are faster, and IMHO better built than the Gemini's.

BTW, my Gemini has never slapped in harbor - I have no idea where that comes from.
 
#17 ·
Selkirk, you're forgiven, now let us continue to be lazy and call our boats cat's....
Ok.
But before I go away (and I will) I just want to say that while you may call your catamarans "cats", you will be wrong while doing so.

You can't call a Brigantine a "Brig" because those are two different types of vessel. With similar names.

You can't call a Barquentine a "Barque" because those are two different types of vessel. Similar names.

And a catamaran ain't a cat.
This is a cat


Now I'm done......Hangs head. Shuffles off. Mumbles.
 
#16 ·
One other point about the Seawinds and other outboard powered catamarans: They will have less flexibility when it comes to re-charging the batteries, adding air conditioning/refrigeration, etc.

There are some other cats in this size range, like the TomCat 30 and MaineCat 30, but I'm not a particularly big fan of either. :) IMHO, they're fairly overpriced for what they give you and their design does not lend itself to singlehanding without some modification due to the cockpit layout.
 
#21 ·
I think I saw you posting on the Iroquois mailing lists... living aboard an Iroquois would be a challenge. More of a weekender kind of boat in my opinion. Some guy did circumnavigate though, and occasionally people cross the Atlantic in them.

It's very confined. You have to stoop over in the salon, it's about 4 and a half feet tall. Not sure how you'd do a separate shower, if that's what you're asking, really isn't much room for that. There's also not much tankage (water, holding, or fuel) in the boat, you'd have to add all that. And that of course adds a lot of weight, and starts to destroy your sailing performance...

Don't get me wrong, I do like the boat. I wouldn't consider it for liveaboard though.
 
#22 ·
Not familiar with the Prout Ranger series. They weren't very common on this side of the pond. Their Snowgooses are fairly common over here, but not the Ranger. I have been on the Snowgoose, and do like it...but it's a bit bigger than the Ranger.

LookingforCruiser's points about the salon headroom in the Iroquois is a good one, but again it really depends on what your priorities are.
 
#23 ·
LookingforCruiser's points about the salon headroom in the Iroquois is a good one, but again it really depends on what your priorities are.
I agree salon headroom might be a showstopper, we'll know more once I visited one with my mrs...
Not sure the Ranger has standing headroom either, I guess we'll plan to go and see that as well in a while... (unless it's sold in the mean time...)

:rolleyes:
 
#24 ·
What about the first series Gemini Catamarans?
Some are some within my budget...
These do have standing headroom I believe but then also a solid foredeck, is this very negative on this boat as I read they still perform quite well...
As usual all feedback is welcome :rolleyes:
 
#25 ·
Djeeke—

The major differences between the 3000 series of Geminis and the 105 series of Geminis is the hull shape IIRC. IIRC, the change in the hull shape shifted the center of buoyancy for the hull outboard a slight bit, making the boat more capsize resistant. The solid foredeck is slightly more prone to slamming, but that is just because it is a solid foredeck.
 
#27 ·
We took a look at the Gemini and thought the same thing. Had a tough time with the visibility, and the cockpit area felt a little cramped. My daughter felt the inside was also a little cramped. Also didn't have the feeling of sailing. Several people advised me against it, suggesting they don't last as long as other boats. I can't tell you whether that is accurate or not. However, there were also a lot of positives, starting with the price. I thought the stateroom was very comfortable and my wife loved the refrigerator/freezer. The relatively narrow beam is also a plus for slips. I also have to say that the people at Performance were very nice.

We opted to go with the Seawind 1000XL. The biggest drawback is price. Stateroom is not as nice as the Gemini, and the wider beam will prove more difficult obtaining slips and having choices of boat yards for maintenance and winter storage. Nonetheless, we felt it had some key advantages. Seems to be built better, very open feel in combined cockpit/salon, and forward hatches can be open in salon providing more of a sailing feel. The visibility was substantially better than for the Gemini. For a dedicated monohull sailor, it was a very fun sail. Love the idea of sleeping in the salon, making up for the lesser stateroom. The built in BBQ is a nifty feature, especially since we are usually on a mooring. Most importantly, it met with my wife's and kids' approval!!!
 
#28 ·
Take a look at the Victory 35. Although I have never seen one personally, they seem to be well designed and have a wider beam than the Gemini. They seem to have a good reputation and owner reviews. Although, I am not overly excited about the aux power setup as it employs a single, steerable, Sonic Cat Leg Drive.

These "cats" seem to be quite elusive even when just looking for internet pics. I am not sure how that would translate into support but I am sure there are owner groups.

Here's one I found for comparison: Sail Boat in Herrington Harbour North Yacht Yard, Maryland - 2001, Victory, 35 - Used Boats - Boat Classifieds - Buy a Boat - Sell a Boat
 
#32 ·
OK,

From what I have read, you can't go wrong with a Catalac - no unhappy owners.

But you know you are going with older designs etc.

I need head room (6'4") and want to go to windward a little bit. I will probably end up with a Gemini to practice "Catting" locally and coastal. I don't know that I am fit enough for long open water stuff anyway. We shall see.

Luck to ya!
 
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