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Cost to do a proper varnish job

19K views 31 replies 20 participants last post by  DeGraw75 
#1 ·
Hi Everyone:

I currently have my 1980 Orion 27 hauled out to have a thru hull and seacock replaced ( Posted a picture in another thread and a few people were highly concerned ). While it is out, I had the yard quote me on what it would cost to strip all the brightwork down to wood, apply 8 coats of varnish with sanding between coats, and do a final top coat, detail, unmask, etc. The boat is 27 feel long and here are the pieces they were going to redo:

Cap Rails, Eyebrow Trim (2), Bow Sprit platform, Companion Way hatch, Top Grab Rails (4), Flue Bases (2), Hatch Base, Sampson Posts (2), Chain Plate Standoffs (2), and the Cockpit Table.

No wood repair, or color matching, or bleaching of wood.

The estimated labor was 400 hours @ $63/hour for $25,200 and $770 for parts. OUCH!! :eek: :eek: I guess they really don't want to do the work. Does this seem correct? I will do it myself, but what have others paid to have this done? I called the project manager assigned to my boat to make sure it wasn't a typo on the estimate, and he is serious.
 
#2 ·
I'll do it for $40 and hour with the same time estimate. Varnishing is a huge PITA and that's why production boats are plastic. I put 13-15 coats on mine, and I have very little teak. Took forever, and it stopped being fun after the first 5 coats. That is an incredible quote, reinforces why so many just oil their teak and give up on varnish.
 
#4 ·
May I suggest you sand it down...put on 2 coats of Cetol Natural teak and 2 coats of Cetol gloss with NO sanding between coats. Should run you about 60 bucks in materials and 3-4 days of work. Results look quite nice and NEVER require sanding again...just light scrubbing and a touch up coat or two of gloss once a year.
 
#6 ·
First off; they don't want to do the work or they would not have given that ridiculously high quote. Second; prepping for varnish or Cetol does take time but it is not super hard and can be done in sections (you don't have to do everything at once). I would sand or heat-gun remove everything you can at the yard then do the application of finish while in your slip. If you don't want to paint everything at once (time/temp/wind conditions might not allow it); you can do a final prep (tape, light sand and and acetone wipe) on one section and varnish it while the others weather lightly. Being in So Cal you should have way more time/opportunity to do the finish work than here in Nor-Cal or where it snows in the winter.

You can use teak oil; but the wood will weather/gray from sun and mildew growth. Personally I prefer finished teak on the rails and all non-walking surfaces; decks should be left natural for traction.

Cetol is excellent IMHO; the "natural teak" color is outstanding. You don't need 4 coats of base color, 2-3 looks best IMHO with the clear gloss used as topcoat and annual maintenance coat. Do a search on this forum for Cetol; there are some pictures in the threads.
 
#7 ·
Littlewing,

That's a ridiculous quote. They must not need or want the work.

Good advice above. We are using Cetol Light and it's a pretty decent finish (we started with it before the new "natural" color came out). I actually prefer the look of varnish -- but the Cetol's a lot easier to maintain.

Our boats have a fair bit of teak trim. I've found it's easiest to work on it in segments. This makes the tasks more manageable, with the downside that we never have all the teak looking "bristol" at the same time. Oh well, that doesn't really bother me.:eek:

P.S. Does anybody know whether we could switch to the new "Natural" Cetol without stripping al the old "Light"?
 
#8 ·
LittleWing...here's a shot of my toe rail done in Cetol as described above but using Cetol and Cetol Gloss instead of Cetol Natural and Cetol Gloss. Helped on another boat using the Cetol Natural last summer and it looks even better and closer to varnish.
My decks are just bare teak kept in shape with salt water. Anything else just becomes a pain. Some folks use teak oil on decks because it looks nice when you do it. Unfortunately, the oil holds dirt and pollution and gets really ugly rather quickly. I prefer to just leave it alone but the saltwater is critical to keeping it well preserved. Don't sand or use harsh chemicals on deck teak ...just boat soap and a reasonably soft scrub brush to clean it up and then let nature (and salt water) do the rest as keelhaulin says above.
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/buying-boat/40254-endeavour-42-a.html#post259546
 
#9 ·
JRP...you CAN switch but the wood grain will be more obscured. Are you using the gloss on top? If so, that will need to go before switching the bottom coat.
FWIW..."light" with gloss looks pretty good too just not quite as good...but I sure wouldn't sand down to bare for the minor improvement!
 
#14 ·
Thanks for that info Cam.

No, I'm not using the gloss, but I still have a pretty good supply of "Light" so I think I'll use it up before I switch over -- especially if there's not a huge difference.

Much appreciated.:)
 
#11 ·
The quote is ridiculous--400 man-hours is 10 man-WEEKS. Whoever is planning to do the job is going to put on less than one coat of varnish per WEEK! They should plan on two-three days of prep and then one coat per DAY. You can also save a lot of time and money with the two-part varnishes like Bristol Finish, where you can apply about 4 coats per day/between sanding.

In Thailand, the whole job would cost less than $1,000, but in SoCal, it will probably be $3-5K.
 
#12 ·
Thanks everyone for the feedback. I figured the quote was just a "We are too busy to do it" type of quote. They have a few mega yachts in the yard that the painters are busy with. I will do the job myself over time, and save the money. I appreciate the input.
 
#13 ·
Second Cam's suggestion of Cetol... :) I prefer sailing to varnishing, so have no exterior wood on my boat aside from the tiller.
 
#15 ·
The only exterior piece of teak on my boat is the pigstick, all 4 feet of it, mostly covered by the ensign, and taken inside when I'm not actually on the boat.
The interior on the other hand was bought new with just oiled teak, acetone wipes, sanding and varnishing that MIGHT be 400 hours for a professional (meaning one who charges by the hour) but I've got 80% of it done with three coats, some still bare in about 60.
 
#16 ·
Littlewing, I'm doing my teak now with Cetol Marine ( 2 over 3 ), what I have done so far ( which a isn't much ) looks far better than what the guy next to me paid for and continues to have redone every 2-3-4 months, (it's rediculous)

Mine will take couple months to complete because I'm doing it on the weekends and between sailing , but, I will have spent around 500 bucks in material and it will look great

Below is a example of what I have to do





I almost have the cabin trim, boxes, hatches & handholds finished

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e352/jpivey/Tayana.jpg
 
#17 ·
Do it, then decide it's ridiculous.

Ridiculous quote and worth it are two separate questions. No, its probably not worth it to you, but it probably would take that much time and $63 is not a bad rate for yard work. They've got expenses. I run a similar operation, an architectural woodwork shop, and I know what costs are. For instance $4.38/hr for the company's 70% share of a decent family health insurance plan. Then rent, then electricity, then payroll, then worker's comp, then . . . . There's way more to "outrageous" boatyard rates than meets the eye. Sorry for the rant.
 
#18 ·
No, its probably not worth it to you, but it probably would take that much time and $63 is not a bad rate for yard work. They've got expenses. I run a similar operation, an architectural woodwork shop, and I know what costs are. For instance $4.38/hr for the company's 70% share of a decent family health insurance plan. Then rent, then electricity, then payroll, then worker's comp, then . . . . There's way more to "outrageous" boatyard rates than meets the eye. Sorry for the rant.
OK got two issues with this:

1) 10 weeks is quite ridiculous for re-finishing trim. What are they going to do hand-sand it? I can see it being more time consuming if they could not use a sander, stripper or heat gun; but really 10 weeks? I think they don't want the job.

2) If you quoted an owner somewhere approaching 1/2 the cost of a used 28' boat to do brightwork; would you expect to get their business or any more of it? In my mind I would think that a quote like that would make me want to take my boat to a different yard the next time. I'm sure they do high quality work and yes doing brightwork takes time to do properly but mainly it is in the initial surface prep and waiting for the right time to put finish on; but certainly it should not take 10 weeks (maybe 10 weekends if you DIY'd it on spare time). That boat has minimal exterior teak trim BTW...
 
#19 ·
No yard wants the business

if they think they will lose $$. Also, if you or I spent $23K on a varnish job, we'd be looking at it with a microscope nit picking the details. You gotta redo this, you gotta redo that. 400 is probably too much, but my real point is that I read too many posts about yards "ripping people off", and then you see some of these same yards closing their doors because they can't meet costs.
 
#21 ·
Yeah; some people just love to spend money on brightwork maintenance. I'm VERY happy with my Cetol and annual to semi-annual maintenance coat of the clearcoat. It really is not that hard; I'd say the biggest job is getting the tape down properly (don't use anything but the 3M blue tape BTW).

There is a wood hulled schooner (not sure of the builder) a few doors down from us who has some amazing teak brightwork; IIRC he has his own employees to come down and maintain the cetol and masts once a year. They spent a few weeks this year sanding the masts down and re-varnishing them; that looked like a fun job (not). The saddest thing is that the boat never seems to leave the slip or have anyone aboard; but it is a beautiful and well maintained boat.
 
#23 ·
Wow; that's fast breakdown of the UV inhibitor. You might want to invest in some canvas covers; expensive to have made but if you can sew or know someone who can you could make the covers for a reasonable price. I want covers for my trim but have not got around to it yet. There is a boat in our marina (looks like a Southern Cross) that has full covers on every piece of teak; amazing canvas job. The Cetol finished teak always looks like new when the covers come off. Use a light color Sunbrella so the UV won't severely fade the color.
 
#27 ·
brite work costs

we have a shannon 43 ketch. the 4.5 ft bow platform, eyebrows, dorade boxes, toe rails , etc are teak/
its 1800-2200/yr for 3 coats. varnish, gloss
i dont like the orange in Cetol, but maybee have not seen all the shades.
i dont "love spending money" but my first boat was a sunfish and this is my second and last one and i love her, so she gets her hair done once a year.
david
northern calif. vallejo
 
#28 ·
Varnish prices

I recently had the brightwork stripped and 10 coats of Epifanes applied, sanding between coats. The boat is a Cape Dory Custom 40. The price was $8,500.
The providers were from St. Vincent, legally here on temporary work visas, and were insured. They were seasoned pros in the yacht refinishing world, and were here to make some $$$ to take back home. The result is fabulous!
The problem getting this work done here is that the yards want their full labor rate for all of this work, even though some is unskilled. They really don't want to be involved in this work, hence the ridiculous quotes. Our marina quotes at $95/hr. I call it an "IQ test".
My guys handled the labor problem by using 5 people. All polite workers, very happy to have the work, with no goal other that the best job possible. They worked in high heat and humidity, took off most removable hardware, and didn't take breaks (even for lunch). they finished in about 2 weeks. My slip neighbor said she "had never witnessed humans working that hard".
 
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