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Irwin - Bluewater Capable???

143K views 81 replies 28 participants last post by  Travis Travis Travis 
#1 ·
Looking to pick up a boat for upcoming "retirement" (term used loosely). Would like to get a boat in the 32'-37' range, capable of being handled by crew of 2 and one in a pinch. Looking at coastal shake-out cruises over the new few years with some multiple week trips south. Ultimately, will be taking on more offshore sails. Many boat manufacturers "claim" offshore capability. Have looked at Alberg 37, Allied Princess 36, and S2 11. Each has nice open layout but obviously there is a difference in bluewater capability.

Question - are Irwin's built to handle these goals? If so, what models within the length constraints would you recommend?

Thanx in advance for any advice you can provide - directed at Irwins or others.

Keith
 
#29 ·
hi everybody,my friend is finishing refit on his irwin 30 in Florida and he would like sail across Atlantic to Europe in few months.My question is: Is Irwin 30 actualy " blue water" boat? Did you ever heard about somebody who made seriouse offshore passage on Irwin 30 ? Any good points and bad points for those cruisers?many thanks for responses
 
#31 ·
Irwin 38 Citation

Saw your posts, in '07 - '08 re: Irwin's/ Seems a lot of disagreement with respect to seaworthiness. I'm looking at a 38 Citation...1988. It's been mentioned problems with early to mid-80s. I'd like to know if that was cleared up by 1988, and where I might find some solid information. There seems to be a lot of conjecture out there. This will be my first sailboat. I've been boating a long time. I'm outside Chicago, but on Lake Michigan, which is just as nasty as the Atlantic, so I want to be sure I know what I'm looking for.

Any help would be great!!

Thanks,

Michael
 
#32 ·
The 38 Citation is a nice sailing boat and an excellent value and fairly fast.
No...this is not a blue water boat and yes... she is fine for lake Michigan provided you get a good survey and engine analysis. Pay particular attention to the tanks if they have not been replaced.
I don't think Irwins are any better or worse than the other production boats of the era and if their QC was spotty...that has likely sorted itself out by this time and a survey will tell you what you need to know.
 
#38 ·
Blue water & Lake Michigan

The 38 Citation is a nice sailing boat and an excellent value and fairly fast.
No...this is not a blue water boat and yes... she is fine for lake Michigan
I don't think Irwins are any better or worse than the other production boats of the era .
I have sailed both blue water and Lake Michigan and I can tell from experience that blue water sailing seems easier than LM with the exception that in LM you are always closer to a safe harbor. It is not unforeseen to have 9 ft waves on LM that are to close to ride them like you could in "blue water" 12' waves. Resulting in a pounding of your ship that must be build to withstand this.
Therefore if a boat is good for LM she is good for blue water (when equipped correctly)
I've sailed the North Sea off the NW cost of Europe and can tell you that, that small body of water is much worse than some big oceans. The same with the Great Lakes, a lot of large commercial vessels perished in these "timid" inland lakes. Don't under estimate them they similar to oceans only not as salty.
EJO
 
#33 ·
My friends, the Campbells, out of Jacksonville, sailed their Irwin Citation (I thought 37, maybe 38?) to Murmansk many years ago. I've thought that there's a cause to think that the term "blue Water" should be attributed to the Captain and crew as much as to the vessel. It's prudent choice and diligence of care that allows vessels to succeed as well as construction. I'm reminded of the many vessels that are retrieved in sound condition after the rescue of their crew. I'm slow to accept that variations in construction are the determining factors in cruising success. I'd be interested in the conspicuous results of numerical data that compares the man with the machine. I think the "machine" is carrying a little myth! 'take care and joy, Aythya crew
 
#35 · (Edited)
Yes of course the Captain and Crew are probably 2/3 of the "safety at sea " equation and this comment and discussion has been made countless times by countless posters here.
They always comment on the number of boats recovered without crew. Why does no one ever comment on the number of boats and crew that simply disappear or the number of crew picked up in life rafts?
Never forget that there are TWO components to safety and a boat that does not leak like a sieve, shake itself to death, loose it's rudder or rig or prevent access to the hull in holing situations is more likely to be able to stand up to the rigors of cruising, and be a comfortable and safe platform for the experienced captain and crew.
Oh and that experienced captain will insure that even those boats which are acknowledged as blue water vessels go to sea in ship shape condition as nothing lasts forever.
Some people cheer the inexperienced and unprepared on....some people say any boat can cross an ocean. Sometimes those people will be right. And those success stories will encourage others to lose their lives...needlessly.

C Force...this is NOT personal criticism just commenting on your remarks as they are like so many others..and my guess is that you and your boat are prepared for whatever adventure you choose.
 
#36 ·
Bob

Have just joined so cannot send PW. Don't intend to hijack the thread, but interested to know if you have a traveller as your picture might indicate.

I started a thread on this topic so if you or anyone has experience or advice, please respond through that thread.

Many thanks

Boatseeker (John)
 
#39 ·
I know this a old thread. But hopefully it does not fall on deaf ears. I tried to PM jzk, but I am short of the 15 posts needed. So I will post my PM here in the hopes the JZK gets this.
"Hello,
I came across your comments in a thread on irwins being "bluewater" worthy. I saw the pic you posted of your irwin and could not help but notice the similarities to the one I have owned now for 2 years. It is on the hard in Waukegan in but should be launched this month after two years of work. I wanted to know, do you know where your boat ended up? Do you have any more pics maybe of the inside too? I would love to see how they are supposed to look. My boat is a 70' irwin 38-1 and I have a main sail with the same numbers as yours in that shot you posted.

Feel free to reply to my email at jedstrom(at)periphix.......com
-Jeff"
 
#44 ·
Now that I own an Irwin 38 MkII Center cockpit I figure I'll re-post to this thread :)

I figure my Irwin will take me wherever I want to go. If I wind up in the Med some day I'll just laugh at the guys that say they aren't blue water, same as I laugh at all the guys here that say the Gemini isn't blue water.
Since quite a few of those have circumnavigated, and many are in Europe and the south pacific I'll just say actions speak louder than opinions.

We no longer live in the days when weather prediction was a factor of what color the sky is in the morning/night.
 
#45 ·
chucklesR welcome to the great old Irwin boat side. You'll find some annoyances which are immediately nullified by all the great things in and about these Irwin vessels.
After you know her inside out you can go anywhere in comfort and at a reasonable speed. Okay it isn't a cat but you must have seen something in her to give up a cat and you get a lot of boat for the dollar.
You have arrived
 
#46 · (Edited)
Ok guys, I sanded my hull down to bare fiberglass and found chop over, heavy fiberglass mess. The mesh looked like you're typical place mat, and I think the chop was then blown over for extra thickness and maybe to make the cosmetics easy to arrive at.

I drilled out a thru-hull about 1.5' down from the deck for an extra bilge pump and at that location, the hull was 3/8" thick.

Mine was built in Fort Lauderdale in 1970 and 1st titled in '71.
 
#49 ·
Sorry I misunderstood I thought 2' below waterline. Yes I still think they have good thickness hulls, hey my cabin sole is about 3/8" where I cut a hole for my table post receiver.
Are you still OB motoring? Just sold mine but still am in touch with the NO
 
#52 · (Edited)
Are you still OB motoring? Just sold mine but still am in touch with the NO
I fixed the A4 in March. Still have the OB, until I'm fully satisfied the A4 is fine. Going back to CC next week and taking it out in the Gulf. Everything should be fine, I just had to replace the fuel system (tank, fuel pumps, filter, etc), rebuild the carb...change the oil, 120 psi on all cylinders. Corpus marina is nearly 20 miles from the jetties.
 
#50 · (Edited)
Almost any boat can be "offshore" capable. It is more often the sailors who are not..

Heck my buddy Bruce sailed around the world twice, solo, on an ultralight race boat. He sailed through the roaring 40's on an ultralight boat with a 10+ foot fin keel with bulb, spade rudder and technically sailed for 109 days straight of "blue water sailing". How many cruisers do 109 day "blue water" passages or intentionally sail trough the roaring 40's carrying as much sail is as humanly possible.

Many "salty" types will tell you it can't be done, but has been, even on an Irwin. Bruce also kept way more sail up than most would consider prudent for the conditions yet he and the boat survived just fine, twice...





Blue water? This boat has more blue water miles than most "blue water" built boats" do....


Watch at 1:43 + seconds. Again this is why I say the sailor is often more important than the boat...
http://www.oceanplanet.org/vendee-globe-2004-2005-video.asp
 
#53 ·
Almost any boat can be "offshore" capable. It is more often the sailors who are not..

Heck my buddy Bruce sailed around the world twice, ....

Many "salty" types will tell you it can't be done, but has been, even on an Irwin. Bruce also kept way more sail up than most would consider prudent for the conditions yet he and the boat survived just fine, twice...

Blue water? This boat has more blue water miles than most "blue water" built boats" do..
Look, I'm not a multi-millionair, or even close. I'll have about 40k into my boat (total) by the time I'm thru. I think that's not too bad, for going thru everything. I know every square inch of my boat because I did it myself...except for the shrouds, I'm not going up the mast....injuries from work make that too risky for me.

The good news is I spent over 2 years when I was younger, working on oil supply boats, so I've got good experience in 25' seas.....not that I'd want to see that in this boat.
 
#56 ·
Hey Lake Michigan just had 22 to 25' waves within the last week and those aren't the rolling ones you have in the Gulf or Oceans. I don't go out in that as I can't handle it but the boat could.
Glad to hear your A-4 is up and running and the site shows you made her prettier again. Now only if she was blue (lol)
 
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#59 ·
EJO I have to agree with you about LM. I spent a night having my hull slamming in a 40' sailboat after leaving Wisconsin while LM was catching the remenants of a hurricane. Big waves and high winds but the worst of it by far was the lifting and slamming of the hull the whole evening.
 
#60 ·
sailorme welcome to LM that lake and any other one of the Great Lakes are not to be messed with due to their short interval of wave length always less than your boat-length hence the slamming. Most boats can handle it but the owners can't.
Although the Edmund Fitzgerald couldn't handle it.
Again it comes down to the original question and statements is an Irwin Blue Water capable, if she is capable to handle the Great Lakes she's capable to handle the Oceans or the Gulfs as long as she is equipped right and has a good experienced skipper.
 
#61 ·
yeah, after the slamming where the whole boat would vibrate the lake calmed somewhat and we were into some suprisingly large swells like the ocean.

I try not to respond to types of posts like this "xxxxx a blue water boat" . you typically get posts from owners of other boats trying to convince you that it and by inference their's is :) or armchairers :rolleyes:

couldnt help myself on this one however. I guess they flew all those irwins around the world :laugher
 
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