[Maine Sail]

Originally Posted by CaptainFredGreenfield

Most boat owners don't get into buying boats so that they can flip them. Most are lucky to see the same resale value when they sell them, because most buy them for personal pleasure, use them, then have to repair and upgrade what they wore out or broke.

I don't "flip" boats I buy a boat get lots of use out of it, keep it spotless, get bored and move on..

Originally Posted by CaptainFredGreenfield

You say all of your boats are in the top 1-2% condition.

How long did you own them? If it was only a couple of months with no use, there probably was very little you had to do to them.

One boat I only owned for one season all the others were at least two+ years. We've had our current boat now for three. They all got LOTS of use and LOTS of love and attention so to minimize any loss in value. I used to detail boats for a living when I was younger so I know the HUGE importance of appearance on value.

Originally Posted by CaptainFredGreenfield

Did it cost nothing to put them in a slip, insure them, license, maintain them?

Of course it did but apparently you chose not to read where I said

Originally Posted by Maine Sail

Of course none of this changes the fact that boating is expensive and will cost a LOT more than the original purchase price..

But seeing as you asked here is my break down in Maine.

Mooring = $20.00 per year & about $350.00 every four to years for new chain or 107.50 per year over four years.

Winter Storage = I don't skimp and pay for shrink, pressure wash and remove my stick each winter to the tune of about $2200.00

Insurance = $680.00 per year

Registration = 68.00

Total Fixed Costs $3055.50 per year

Originally Posted by CaptainFredGreenfield

Did you ever take them out and use them? If so, did you ever have to replace lines, repair sails, or replace any other components that went wrong?

We average well over 1k nm per season. You are ALWAYS upgrading or fixing something but you do with any large investment. This is the big hidden cost and why it is so important to DIY!!

Originally Posted by CaptainFredGreenfield

Did you have any wood on board? Did you have to care for it?

Some boats yes but three of them had NO external wood including the current boat. We have a long winter up here and it gives us lots of time to putter away on things we enjoy. If you are not handy, and don't enjoy working on boats then you probably should not own one unless you have money to just throw away or burn..

Originally Posted by CaptainFredGreenfield

Did you ever have to haul out? Bottom Paint? Bottom clean? New Zincs? Labor? How much did that cost?

Sure we haul out every winter for six months. Zincs cost me about $2.19 (LINK) and $6.99 (LINK) which is a FAR CRY from the $100.00 you quoted plus I get a commercial discount on top of those prices bringing my yearly grand total to about $10.00 (I usually buy three engine zincs one shaft). If you spend $100.0 on zincs you may have a problem that needs to be addressed. As for labor I have not paid labor in years and do everything myself. The only labor I pay on a yearly basis is the charge to pressure wash & step and un-step my mast. I tune it myself. I used to do my own pressure washing but for the $44.00 charge it's just not worth lugging my pressure washer to the boat yard anymore..

Originally Posted by CaptainFredGreenfield

The point is, the reason why your boats DIDN't depreciate heavily is because it takes a lot of work and ownership cost to keep a boat in the top 1-2%.

If you want to be successful at anything in life it takes hard work! Boat ownership is not a sit on the couch, point the remote control at it sport, and it requires a time and labor commitment on your part! All in all though it's not really as much time as most people think, but yes it will require time.

You need to have a schedule of events and time-line for certain tasks to keep up with it or you'll get so far behind you'll never catch up. Try working on a 100+ foot mega-yacht without a schedule and you'll be screwed really quickly and never ever catch up. Just ask me how I know....

Originally Posted by CaptainFredGreenfield

You can either pay for it on the front end or the back.

Even if I add in all my expenses they still DO NOT come anywhere near your claims of 30% first year, 20% second and 10% there after. You never addressed my 3.4% depreciation on a brand new boat that I sold less than three years later. On that boat I literally added nothing but a larger alternator and an stereo that accepted an iPod for a total upgrade cost of about $369.00. I did spend money on cleaning supplies and spent time keeping up with it but that was it. She was the cleanest 310 on the market and that is why she sold. The guy that bought it had looked at every 310 North of VA and it was also the most expensive.

Originally Posted by CaptainFredGreenfield

If you're lucky and your boat only needs 50% of my estimated expenses to keep it in top shape because its special or something, then congratulations. But tally up how much it cost to simply own those boats, and I think you'll see it cost a lot to keep them in top shape, let alone own them.

Yup we've never been in disagreement on this at all! Where we disagree is your depreciation numbers which are not realistic. I had access to Soldboats.com until about a month ago when a buddy who was a broker left the trade to go into the family business. I can assure you that 30% then 20% then 10% each year there after is not real world. Can it happen? Yes but it is not the norm at all and actually quite far from it.

Originally Posted by CaptainFredGreenfield

In the long run, you didn't make a dime owning those boats, if you bought them to flip them, you might look at it on paper instead of just the sale price and figure that everyone who says boats depreciate is wrong or using a bad data set.

I never ever said boats don't depreciate or that they are a good investment! I would never buy boats to flip! As for the bad data set I'd really like to know where you got your 30, 20, 10 number from. I will remind you again that my 310 sold for 107.5k which is 3.4% below what I paid for it. We sailed her almost 2.5k miles over two seasons and for a brand new boat I was expecting to lose at least 10% - 15% which is more standard.

Remember your numbers had my 310 selling for 56k when it really sold for 107.5k. That is a 192% price difference !!!! Something is obviously wrong between a real sale and your 30,20,10 numbers. The last time I checked Soldboats.com, about 10 months ago, no 310 had ever sold for anywhere close to 56k.

Originally Posted by CaptainFredGreenfield

The whole point is, my schedule, much like the depreciation schedules you might find anywhere on the net are generalizations, meant only to get a new boat owner thinking about how much they are going to have to spend on their boat. Its not going to work perfectly to apply to all boats, all models, in all geographic locations. Or did you forget about the location part?

The fact that my Rawson 30 in So Cal is worth 60% of what it would be worth in Seattle? There's no way I'm going to account for those things in a simple article.

The you should put a depreciation range rather than trying to scare the living bejesus out of folks by telling them that in three years their 111.3k investment would be worth 56k.

Perhaps saying: "First year depreciation, depending upon location, boat and how you maintain it, could range from as little as 3% to as much as 30% and second year depreciation could range from 3% to as much as 20% and year three and beyond can range from about 1% to 10% per year".. Blanket statements that scare folks are not what we need to grow this dying sport!

If you maintain your boat to a high standard, which DOES cost money, you will and can minimize losses. If you treat your boat like a floor matt then it will be reflected in your tail end losses...