Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailormann
Government doesn't "take care" of me. Trust me on that. The amount of money that I remit to the government personally and through my business interests more than compensates for any and all services I avail myself of.
I pay taxes. I believe they are good. I believe excessive taxation is bad. I am not excessively taxed.
The money I earn ceased to solely be a product of my own personal efforts many years ago. I benefit from the labour of other people. The value of the money that they receive as compensation for their efforts is less than the market value of the work they provide.
This is how a business makes a profit.
Without those people, I would not be anywhere near as comfortable as I am. I depend on them for my standard of living. So I don't think it's asking too much from me that I return some of what I have taken from them. They gave it in labour and I return it in taxes.
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I'm willing to give Sailormann the benefit of the doubt until he posts any clarifications on the matter.
I would say though that, based on the previous post, and erps reaction to it, I don't think he's left the wiggle room imagined.
He states that he is paying below market value. To tie in Cam's point, which is perfectly correct in theory and generally in practice as well, the only possible wage that can be paid is the market wage. If Sailormann is paying below market wage he's getting a heck of a deal that cannot last. But I do not believe that he is saying that. I think Sailormann is saying that he believes they deserve more. And Cam would likely agree that, if an employer thinks an employee deserves more he should probably pay him more or risk losing him. And if Sailormann thinks that the employee deserves more in compensation just because of his intrinsic worth as a human being he should question why that feeling does not translate into a burden upon himself personally instead of an assumed presumption on the largesse of the government and the taxpayers.
I'd point out though that the market does not recognize the intrinsic value of human labor just because it is done by real human beings. It's another question of scarcity and demand. Teachers get paid what they do not because their work is not highly valuable in intrinsic terms but because there is an abundant supply of people capable of doing the job. Rocket scientists are not so plentiful. That potential rocket scientists elect to be employed as teachers does not produce a burden to pay them like rocket scientists. Find a job that few can do and you'll likely end up wealthy. Perform a job that many can do and you'll likely end up ensconced within the middle class.
And, of course, Sailormann does not address what is superior in his payment of taxes to the government over the his employees payment of taxes to the government. There are costs involved, and inequities, of Sailormann paying the government only to have the government turn around and give the money back to his employees. You can consider it "handling fees". Those handling fees add up. Heck, just the postage involved in mailing the forms and checks back and forth is hardly insignificant. Not to mention the bureaucracy that is required to determine which employee needs further compensation.
If Sailormann paid less taxes he could also hire more employees which might make a difference in the growth of his business. Or he could stay the same and just pay those employees he has more and let them pay what is required by the government.
In the end,
Sailormann pays no taxes. What he sends to the government is built into the cost of his product or service. For a given price and a given level of taxation, the less he pays his employees the more he makes. I think Sailormann and his employees can figure all this out on their own without government help. Lower Sailormann's business taxes to zero, taxing him only on his income as a company employee and let his employees pay their own taxes themselves. I'd be willing to bet that the market value for all employees would rise if such a policy were adopted. And then his employees would be free to use more of the fruits of their own labor in a manner more of their choosing, including tax avoidance! 'Cause I ain't buyin' any notions that Sailormann or any other businessman isn't doing as much tax avoidance as they legally can do.