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Big Freakin' Sails

593K views 3K replies 293 participants last post by  smackdaddy 
#1 ·
Okay - this thread is for people that ACTUALLY LIKE Big Freakin' Sails (note for morons: the verb, not the noun). BFS simply means sailing that pushes limits - whatever those limits may be. And herein lies the rub...and the reason I need to explain a couple of things so people don't start foaming at the mouth right off the bat.

There has been a tremendous amount of hubbub over this "philosophy" in another thread - but that thread apparently "came with a lot of baggage" - to the point that the topic itself got lost in the fog of war. So, this is an attempt to start cleanly.

It must be understood that the love for the adventure and excitement of hard sailing is just as valid and robust in the newbie as it is in the big-sailing old salt. The gap between the two is experience and knowledge. And the goal here is not to fill that gap by quashing the spirit of adventure and excitement with a deluge of cynicism and technicality - but to help us all learn, if and when the time comes, how to better handle that moment when mother nature starts rising beyond our sailing abilities. Because if you keep sailing - it will happen, period. And as you'll see, it can get very frightening very quickly.

For an old salt, these limits will obviously be worlds beyond those of the typical newbie. That old salt will probably snicker at the point at which the newbie becomes terrified - understandably so. Yet, there will inevitably be an even more seasoned salt that will, in turn, snicker at the snickerer when he/she soils his/her own breeches in a blow. It's all subjective and un-ownable.

Therefore, the BFS factor of a newbie experiencing a hard heel and wayward helm for the very first time is just as exciting, important, and valuable (in BFS terms) as the old salt battling a 50 knot gale. It's just about the attitude with which the exploit is approached and remembered - and taken into account as they go back out for more. There are great stories and valuable lessons in both experiences - as well as great opportunities for good hearted slams on the brave posters (which is valuable as well). That's BFS.

So, to be clear this thread is JUST AS MUCH FOR THE SAILING NEWBIE (of which I am one) as it is for the old salt. It's a place to tell your story, listen to others', learn some lessons, and discuss the merits or detractions of Big Freakin' Sails.

The following inaugural BFS stories illustrate what this thread is all about. As I said, I'm a newbie - and you see my first BFS story below. You can then compare that with the other great BFS stories thereafter (sometimes edited to protect the innocent) which I think are great tales from great sailors; they cover the spectrum of "pushing the limits". Then, hopefully, you'll throw down some BFS of your own (either your own story, stories you admire, or stories that are just flat-out lies but with great BFS value - whatever).

Now, let's have some fun...shall we?
 
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#1,626 ·
we left southwest harbor ,maine at night on november 3rd. i believe it was 1988, into deteriorating weather to deliver a 50ft shannon ketch to the virgins by way of bermuda. the second day out it was blowing a steady 40 gusting to 57kn. wind was NE against the gulf stream so the waves were steep. the night was so black you had a hard time seeing the waves. i was at the wheel about 2AM when a graybeard pooped us & filled the cockpit. i held my feet up till it drained so my sea boots were not full. we had the full main up & were making 10 kn down the waves & 8 kn up. we passed a fishing vessel heading into it . it looked like he was really getting pounded. this went on for several days. when we approached bermuda the wind was light so we put a long line over the stern & went swimming in 6,000ft of water. some people say they would never do that, but i tell them you can drown in 6ft of water.
 
#1,627 ·
Let the stupid jerk run into someone else - or aground. I raced with a crew of 12 core people for 18 years and we never contacted another boat. Its just not worth the headache for a flag or two hours in the protest room and a call to your agent. Stay smart and out of trouble. We won a lot of races that way and enjoyed a lot of barbeques after - with the skipper able to join us.

Also, remember the rule of tonnage. Just stay away from danger, especially if its bigger than you, made of steel and owned by some non-present entity.
 
#1,628 · (Edited)
Thanks for the Thaddus Jay quote Mr. Bubb, I'd forgotten exactly how it went.........Now for my first BFS: 1973 and it was the 1st sailboat I'd been on, a large Venture Catamaran in a windy lake in AZ. We were flying around a point with me on the high side and as we cleared the point we caught a gust that launched me 15' into the air where I hit the sail and was smacked back onto the trampoline and bounced overboard. I told the "Captain" that I wasn't going back out until he installed seatbelts..........In 1985 after having stink-pots up to 38' for 12 years I moved to the SF Bay Area and bought a 22' Tanzer. Not wanting to show my lack of skill to anyone I would motor down the Napa River to where it widened and pulled the sail out of the bag marked "Working Jib". I'd try to sail in every kind of condition with that head-sail, and man can it blow up that river! I didn't think I was ever going to get the hang of that sailing stuff.....I couldn't even handle the "Working Jib" in that weather. Well after about a year I could sail in about anything the Bay had shown me and I decided to try the Dreaded Big Genoa. So I dug out the bag marked "Genoa" and {you guessed it......there was the working jib!)
 
#1,629 · (Edited)
Heh-heh - so vega that working jib was indeed one big freakin' sail! I bet you had your rail buried most of the time on that Tanser. Good times.

billc - holy crap. I've been on the boat only once in 50 knot winds...and that was at the slip! Seriously freaky. So what's it like hearing that hiss of the graybeard sneaking up behind you? Anyway, I agree, 6 or 6000 what's the difference?

nicholson - good advice.
 
#1,631 ·
St - what would Ronnie-Johns-cum-Chopper-Reid say, mate?

Seriously, have you seen my BFS in this thread? Unable to exit the slip because the wind was a little cheeky? Does that have a scare factor for the likes of you? Exactly. But for me, I was freaking. Huge scare factor.

See that's the beauty of BFS. It's all relative! It's guys like CP that totally miss this point. But I digress...like 125,000 years in that particular case...but seriously...

The way I see it, if this jaunt is something you've not done before, and if its something you're taking seriously and prepping for, and if you do it...it's a freakin' BFS. Period.
 
#1,632 · (Edited)
C-CP...I KNEW I wasn't on your ignore list! Just kidding around. Couldn't you just hear the rimshot?

How you feelin' dude? I do hope you recover quickly. You've definitely had your share of hospitaling. Hang in there Paul. And take that fund we contributed to and GO SAILING!
 
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#1,634 ·
Giu and CP .... Please get off this train. You are not in OT and these attacks are over the line regardless of your rationale or reasons for them.
 
#1,637 ·
Seriously guys, all you're doing is feeding the troll. IMHO, if anyone is stupid enough to take SmackDaddy's advice on anything serious, they're good candidates for a Darwin and deserve what they get.
 
#1,638 ·
That has been my point all along.
BFS has its place and it was a bit of fun in the beginning.
But as I have always said, there simply is no need.
We sail, thats it, stories come along, they are good stories, true adventures.
But to promote such activity can lead to danger, especially when somebody gets in over their head.
I can just picture it now, "I've only been sailing 6 times, but I heard all about this BFS on Sailnet and some dude named Smacky told me to go out when it was blowing 30. He said it would make me a better man. Well we did, and there were 8' seas. We hit the rocks and now my boat is shattered into splinters, I have no insurance and its a total loss."

Yes, I was guilty of adding material here in the begginning, I even sent Smack same videos. Now I sail when I can. Those who know me know I don't run when things get dicey. Just no need to promote it; it's sailing, thats all. It's what we do.

I realise that this is not a popular opinion here, and I realise I will probably be taking some heat for voicing my opinion. But with this thread and the BFS Shop and everything else; I can see it leading to a bad ending by someone not prepared or inexperienced.
 
#1,639 ·
Tim,

One of the best discussions I've seen as to what BFS is all about was actually on the stuffiminto site...here.

I wasn't even a part of it because at that point I'd already been banned. And maybe that's what made it so good. Heh.

Here's one of the best summations of BFS (by Cam actually) after someone said "Let's see.. could it be that day sailors use BFS and cruisers do not?":

Day sailors? How about sailors who enjoy pushing their boats and their own limits and the thrill of sailing?
Now I am a CRUISER...I don't push my boat or myself beyond the limits of what I consider good seamanship and prudence. But I would not call those that do "day sailors". The Vendee Globe folks are not day sailors.

Every once in a while mother nature conspires to provide a BFS to us all. Those who have done their homework and are prepared usually make it through. It is those that don't that end up more frequently with their Darwin awards.


That nails it IMO.

With that, I'm going to go do some Thanksgivinging. Happy holidays to all you guys - even the grumpy ones.

See you soon!
 
#1,644 ·
Irritating ain't it?

Folks who read this thread that have half a brain can see the purpose for it. Those who might read it and sail out into a storm in an under equipped boat and without the skills to survive are Darwin candidates anyway and will find a way whether it's by sailing or not. That or they're too stupid to survive regardless. This is a fun thread for some of us who enjoy pushing the limits during a spirited sail. If that ain't you, read or post no further. If it is you, enjoy. How simple could it be. To bash a person because of their position on this is ludicrous and shows you to be the hater you are... Get a life already.
 
#1,651 ·
Surprisingly, probably only in the low 20's. IODs are very old-school boats designed in the 30's. 33 ft long, 45 ft mast, but only 6.75 ft of beam. They rock and roll downwind like crazy, constantly going from dipping one rail to dipping the other when the wind is up. In fact, class rules include the W (wuss!) flag for no spinnakers if the race is started in more than about 18. The pic just looks more impressive 'cause of the white wall of water that's coming down... another 30 seconds and the photographer wouldn't have been able to see the boats
 
#1,650 ·
Reminds me of a simple club race down wind start a few years ago off Cleveland. Afterguard picked up on black horizon (20 miles) and the skipper called to get the kite off the deck and douse the # 2 we were using to maneuver. By the time the gun cracked, we were main alone at 10 knots with water spouts behind us. Five boats shredded kites and two kevlar mains were torn. We won. Lot of kilobucks passed the sail loft floor that day. What a ride. We saw daylight between the keel and the rudder of the Norlien 41 behind us.
 
#1,653 ·
Just stole this from the insane singlehanders thread. It definitely rates in my book...

As Jeff_H said, sailing short handed can at times duplicate sailing singlehanded, especially at 4-5 AM... can't see the hand in front of you and it's blow'n 25 to 30 knots and wave heights are running 12 to 16 ft. It's kinda like being a fetus and Mommy's on a slow motion trampoline!:eek:
Those conditions were maybe 5 or 6 days of the 12 day trip to St. Thomas from the Abacos and don't get me wrong...it was the best sailing I've ever experienced.

The skipper was a hell of a sailor, the boat was full keeled and well found. She was a perfect performer for the conditions we were sailing in and I never felt in any danger at any time. There were, however, times I wished I could have walked on water! :eek: The forward birth was filled with family stuff, so I spent my off watch time sleeping on one or the other settees, tack dependant. I don't want to spend 12 HOURS on my couch at home let alone sleep on a pitching surface somewhat smaller for 12 DAYS. Four hours on, four off...sometime, about the seventh or eight day, EVERTHING including going to the head was a chore. Sure gave me some heighten respect for those who do sail singlehanded for WEEKS/MONTHS.

Long story short, after we arrived at St. Thomas, I was worthless (and sometimes was during the trip) and exhausted. I learned that I really didn't NEED to travel the oceans to enjoy sailing singlehanded or short handed. I know my shortcommings were my own fault due to my not being prepared for the trip (the skipper acted like he'd just stepped out of a soothing massage). The trip was one of those "crew needed immediately" sites and I flew to the Bahamas thinking it was an 'island hopping trip'. Wrong! I had bitten off more than I had bargained for. Seven hundred miles due east to pick up the trades and THEN head south. After twelve days, I was in the best physical shape I've been in for some time but felt like doggie doo with the crap kicked out of it! :eek: Still, I felt very privledged to be out there and grateful I was given an experience I'll not forget.

I still would like to sail my own boat (STILL looking) and explore both coasts of Florida, the Keys with a side trip to Ft. Jefferson and even down into the Virgins. That should keep me busy for...I dunno...the REST of my life maybe! :D For SELF be true, don't need no BLUE!:rolleyes:

Looking back at those long watches, I really don't know where the long distant singlehandlers get their motivation from...I just know it's not in me like I thought it was. :eek: :)
Great write up Keel.
 
#1,654 ·
Here's another well-handled BFS that has sparked a GREAT THREAD HERE:

This summer I chartered a 36' Hunter out of MDR California for a sail to Catalina Island. After a day in Two-Harbors we sailed around to the back side of the island and spent the night in Cat Harbor. The next morning was beautiful with the weather report calling for 2'-3' seas with wind 8-10 kts picking up to 12-15 kts in the afternoon. Our plan was to sail completely around the island and spend the night in Avalon.

About 2-hours into our sail things changed drastically. The winds picked up to steady 20-22 kts with gusts up to 28 kts coming from behind me (180 degrees) and I was afraid of an accidental jibe. The seas got big (for me) with what I would estimate to be 12-15' following seas. I felt very out of control. I put my wife and younger son down below while my adult son and I tied onto the cockpit with lines (we did not have harnesses).

After reducing sail I regained some control of the boat, but the following seas were so large and breaking that I was afraid I would get pooped. I made the decision to forego our trip around the island and return to Cat Harbor under motor, which took us a couple of hours.

I am a new sailor and have taken the ASA 101, 103, 104 courses. I have been out with an instructor a couple of other times but never experienced the conditions we did on this day. When we got back to Two-Harbors the next day several boats had their head sails blown out and the Harbor Patrol had to moor all the boats coming in because the wind was so high.

I felt so demoralized because up to that point I was pretty confident in what I had learned over the past couple of years. Here's what I'm asking:

1. How could I have continued with the downwind sail? (When the winds are high I feel more comfortable sailing into the wind than with it)
2. How do you deal with large breaking waves from behind?
3. Any other suggestions?

My confidence is still a bit shot so thanks for not taking unnecessary shots at me, but I would appreciate any solid advice or critique.

Thanks.
Followed by a great summation reply from CoastalEddie (there are many more great responses in the thread as well):

The far side of Catalina is pretty much open ocean, there really aren't any tidal currents to speak of (unless one is REALLY close to shore). However, the fact that the wind increased in intensity rather quickly probably accounts for the steepness of the wavefronts. Without much fetch (distance AND time), the waves just hadn't had enough time to sort themselves out.

Seb-

First of all, you made the right decision, for you and your crew. Had you kept going it would have taken you several uncomfortable (and anxious) hours to get to Avalon; turning back to Cat Harbor may have made for an even less comfortable ride, but undoubtedly lowered your anxiety level considerably (since you knew that a safe harbor was just a little ways away).

Given your description, it sounds like the wind was Force 5 - gusting to Force 6 (I never have had a boat with a dependable anemometer, so I just use the good ol' Beaufort scale). At that wind speed you can get fairly large waves IF the wind has been blowing for several hours (maybe 8 - 12) over open water. At the start of a blow the waves will be considerably smaller, BUT much steeper, often making for a very uncomfortable motion. Once you get some more experience you'll probably consider conditions like this "spirited sailing". However, Force 6 is about as strong a wind with which most recreational sailors feel really comfortable.

The point has been made that motoring into the wind and waves probably made for a less comfortable ride than running with them. That's true for three reasons: first, your apparent wind probably increased by 12 to 15 kts (your boat's speed x2) when you turned around; second, you were also plowing into the waves at a much higher speed (wave speed plus boat speed, rather than wave speed minus boat speed), making the impact of the bow against the waves much more forceful; and lastly, the face of a wind-driven wave is much steeper than the back of the wave (unlike the situation for ocean swell, where the two sides are more or less symmetric). Together, all this probably made for a pretty wet ride back to Cat Harbor.

But, at the time, I'll bet you felt better turning around. Why? Probably because you had a near-by harbor to aim for (always a comforting thought); and you weren't used to the yawing that a following sea will induce. With more experience you'll learn how to limit such yawing (by a bit of judicious use of your rudder, and by sailing with the wave off you stern quarter), and you'll get used to the feeling of a small amount of yaw.

But, don't sweat it too much. NO ONE sails for any length of time without getting a bit scared now and again. Remember, that which does not kill us, makes for a great story to tell (and, the story will only improve with age, since each time you tell it the wind will be a bit stronger and the waves a bit bigger ;) ).
That's what I'm talkin' about. Score one for the Westies!
 
#1,655 ·
I gotta say, there have been a slew of great sailing stories of late. Here's a killer BFS from PCP from the Knock Down thread...

Great thread…my small contribution:

Some years ago, on an August night, I was on passage from Cartagena (Spain) to Palma de Maiorca, me and my 16 year-old-daughter, on my 36ft boat. We were about 16 miles off Palma when my daughter joined me on the cockpit. It was her turn to pick the wheel, but as a huge thunder storm was striking far away, on the Spanish mainland and as she was a little bit scared, I stayed with her.

The wind started to pick up. We were motor sailing with full main 20Âş off the head wind. The wind went slowly from 20kt to 30kt and I put, the second and later, as a precaution, the third reef (it makes the sail area really small. I use it as a storm sail, up to 45kts of wind).

Then I saw the "thing" on the radar. It was a huge black area…and it was coming fast. I told my daughter to go inside and to close the boat. Some minutes later I was hit by pieces of ice almost the size of golf balls. It was impossible to stay at the wheel. I put the autopilot on and took shelter under the spray hood and then the wind came in a big blast. As a precaution my hands were on the stoppers, and I immediately let go the boom and the main halyard, to no avail. The boat laid immediately on its side, the boom in the water and the mast touching it. And it stayed that way for I don´t know how long. A lot it seemed to me. Probably two or three minutes, till the blasting wind disappeared, to return to 35k. At that moment the boat righted itself up without any difficulty and I was surrounded by strange waves that seemed to come from all sides.

I was at the wheel but I didn´t know where to steer the boat. The sea was not making any sense and I remember to see some waves racing at fantastic speed, like strange animals speeding on the water. Luckily I was not caught by any of those.

Alf an hour later, everything was "normal" again and I arrived at Palma, at sunrise, as expected. My sail was ripped off from the mast and my banner reduced to shreds.

In Palma everything was normal, no storm had passed there.

It took a lot of persuasion and several experienced sailors to convince my daughter that this was not a "normal" situation. But with the changes on the climate, the truth is that a lot of these strange and violent phenomena are happening on the Med.
 
#1,656 · (Edited)
Outstanding day on the water today. Mid 60's, wind around 15-20 SSW, sun shining, and the lake filled with yachts. Freakin' AWESOME.

But, blood was shed. AND I had an actual MOB today. The real deal. Kind of...

Okay, so I took a buddy out who's done a bit of sailing, but this was his first time aboard the infamous Smacktanic. He was eager to learn. So I taught him everything I know. Took about 10 minutes. Then we flew across that lake like banshees...hurling insults at the J-Boats as they left us in their wakes. Jerks.

All was well until the dusk docking. Tried sailing into the slip - but the wind was right on our nose. So I fired up the 6 and was easing the last 100' into the slip.

"Just step off onto the finger as we come in and tie us off", I say.

"Will do, Master and Commander" comes the reply from my buddy. (It's just a thing on my boat. You know.).

So, he takes a step off the starboard rail toward the finger. A little squeak and crack as the rubber finger bumper gives way beneath his foot, then nothing but shoes fill the sky. He's a big guy; 6'4" or so. So it was a lot of shoe. Then....huge splash.

"That didn't really just happen. No freakin' way that just happened." said my mind as I started working the life-saving checklist.

MOB drill...in the freakin' slip.

I cut the motor so I wouldn't puree my pal. I turn the rudder hard to port to avoid squishing him like a bug and hope that I can wedge the boat diagonally in the slip to give him room. I see him surface and throw him a pfd and tell him to swim forward to avoid the beam of the boat as the momentum is still inching it forward (he had been swimming aft - not good). I then hop off and help him out out of the 58 degree water.

The look on his face is a combination of 15-20 emotions...panic, fury, embarrassment, amazement, bewilderment, hypothermic shock, you name it.

Back on the hard, as he pulls his cell phone out of his waterlogged pocket and removes his soaked hoodie....I fall down L'ing...OL and everything. I mean seriously LOL'ing.

He says he can't wait to come back out. Now THAT'S commitment people.

Oh yeah, the blood. I got a bloody nose today! Yeah baby! We did this super lousy gybe and wrapped the genny around the forestay. So I'm up cranking on the clew to pull it back around. The wind shifts and the genny whips around the stay and BANG, I punch myself right in the nose with a fist-full of clew. I felt just like Sapperwhite from FightClub! It was brilliant!

What a day. What a day. I love yachting.
 
#1,658 ·
Hey Smacker.
You've joined the club. But, turn towards the MoB as your boat pivots about the middle (CLR). Also, you got off lightly with the clew. Never let it happen again - you can get a nice cerebral haem or, like my dad, lose all your front teeth. If it happens to the skipper, imagine the panic that will set in.

cheers fat lips
 
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