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GPS & Computer

4K views 21 replies 14 participants last post by  erdagte 
#1 ·
GPS & Computer

Well I have the good old Garmen GPS with the Blue chard CD.

Since the memory capability of the GPS unit is somewhat limited I believe I need an onboard computer to be able to download new routes etc.

I know it is going to have to be portable and 12 volts.

Does anyone have any recommendations on what to get?

Thanks and a Happy Holidays to all.

HO HO HO
Cap''t Rich
 
#2 ·
GPS & Computer

It''s a distressing but well supported fact that laptops have a much shorter life span than their price would suggest they should, and are apparently built and tested so inadequately that there are a high percentage of ''out of the box'' failure in some cases. To illustrate this - and as one way to answer your question - I would encourage you to visit the Customer/User BB''s at the websites of the main computer manufacturers for the models & included peripherals you are considering. This can be most enlightening (also discouraging...) and listening to buyers talk about both their experiences with their new laptops and also the manner in which their queries, complaints and requests for support are handled by the manufacturer is most instructive.

I was convinced, for our budget vs. needs when buying a new boat laptop in early 2003, that Dell was the answer. Dell''s own BB scared me away from that choice (which has subsequently been validated over and over when I''ve talked with new Dell owners). Our in-house IT professional who supported the Field Sales and management laptops coached me away from IBM (altho'' I gather things have improved for them the last few years) and Gateways struggles in the marketplace left me underwhelmed with that choice. (A friend bought a new Gateway for the 2004 cruising season; oh my, the struggles and gnashing of teeth!)

FWIW - and all these anecdotal answers are probably not worth much, given the few data points they produce - I''ve seen a lot of Toshibas on boats and, knock on wood since that''s what we bought, not one problem or failure has been reported to us yet. (However, I''d encourage you to stash a desktop keyboard away as a spare; the keyboard seems to be the first thing to go).

Jack
 
#4 ·
GPS & Computer

I''ll add to the comment on Dell.
We lashed out bigtime and ordered a Dell desktop and Dell laptop at the same time about four months ago.

Customer support was errr...patchy in terms of actally getting the features we wanted.
The boxes arrived.

The desktop worked fine, but did not contain some of the software we paid for (total lack of Office, either installed or in disk form) and unfortunate presence of Norton...which I specifically indicated I did not want. To make it even more special, Norton is locked into place with an admin code I was not provided with an so cannot be deleted and replaced with a decent Virus Killer. The emails and odd phone calls are still going on about getting that code.
Despite this, I am all-in-all happy with the desktop.

The laptop arrived broken. It would boot up fine, but would not load any new programs, would lock up and die after about five minutes of trying and finally, after about three hours of fiddling and attempted restarts and all the usual stuff one does to try to concinve the system to play nice...something inside it went phutz and the keyboard and mouse no longer interacted with the system, nor was the opening screen all-the-way loading.
So we got to have some more arguments with Dell, who *finally* and with somewhat poor grace came and honoured their committment on the service/replacement warranty (I was not going to pay the $70 to send it back to the base for them. I just suspended the credit-card payment and said "It is right here, please come and collect it anytime you wish to get paid"). Strangely enough they resolved their policies within about 30 hours and a nice courier turned up for it.

Sure enough, it had major hardware issues straight out of the box, had been built incorrectly. So I got told they would happily ship us a new one in only 4-6 weeks. I said thank you very much, but I am buying a Toshiba.

So now I have a Dell desktop I am mostly happy with, and a second-hand fully reconditioned ultra-tough toshiba with a full 2 year warranty that cost less then the Dell would have and has considerably more features as well as being essentially bullet-proof and with all its internals already "burnt in" for 10 motnhs it belonged to some governement department or other. I think I trust it more then this desktop I am typing on.

Sasha
 
#5 ·
GPS & Computer

HO HO, Hello Mr. Cap''t Rich. HO HO

BTW, has anybody ever considered a standard desktop computer, with a flat screen. I have just bought a MSI desk computer, big as a shoe box, with a laptop motherboard. All the rest is standard desktop equipment vgr DVD-w, Flash, Memories, keyboard, flat screen, etc. I carry a ready bootable spare HD .

www.msicomputer.com/product/p_list.asp?class=mega

I am still in a process to get a 12v supply in exchange for the standard AC 110v.

I got fed up of spending in laps, which replacement cost of spares are 3 times the desktop ones.

However I visited the Global Challenge boats, which are all equipped with two Sony Vaios. Up to now, after almost 10,000 miles in turbulent drink, I still continue to receive e mails from the boat. Besides that, those guys dont have budget restrictions at all.

Have a nice research for the Holydays, and mM Xmas for U all

Fernando
 
#6 ·
GPS & Computer

Fernando:

"BTW, has anybody ever considered a standard desktop computer, with a flat screen."

These days it''s not uncommon to find desktop systems being used on both sailboats and powerboats. For those of us who take boats longer distances, the issues seem to be adequate ventilation (vs. the little cubby where the unit tends to be mounted), the salt-laden air that will be constantly pumped thru the the unit and across all the boards (laptop fans push much smaller volumes of air and so contamination is less), and the total power requirement demanded by the machine vs. the power budget that exists on the boat. Or at least those are the issues that I am mulling over.

Jack
 
#7 ·
GPS & Computer

Re: Laptop Failures "right out of the box".
Many years ago (early 60''s), when I was studying Electronic Communication, our instructor was asked "what Television Set he would recommend".
He answered "the one you like - that very one". He meant to say, do not accept one just like the one you viewed, but still in the box - demand the "demonstrator" model, that you compared to others. The reasoning is obvious, and might well apply to "Laptops" (etc.) today.
 
#8 ·
GPS & Computer

Re: Computer Air Filtration
I have no idea what the nature of salt-laden air is (aerosol, solute, whatever), no how, or if, you could effectively filter it.

Can anyone enlighten us?

Notwithstanding, it seems, to me, that it should be much simpler to pre-filter a Desktop than a Laptop.
Here's a cheap/simple "industrial application" solution to computer filtration:
"Air Filter for a Clean Computer" - Jeff Cameron - 6/5/03
http://www.overclockers.com/tips1092/

FWIW
Gord
 
#9 ·
GPS & Computer

Gord and the group:

"I have no idea what the nature of salt-laden air is (aerosol, solute, whatever), no how, or if, you could effectively filter it."

A bit more on this: I was referring to the inherent presence of salt in the ''sea fog'' that surrounds boats at times, especially in rough conditions and/or warmer climates when the finite amount of moisture the air is able to contain (along with its contaminants) increases significantly. A small yacht at sea can''t escape this, and I suspect (just my reasoning here...) that filtration systems won''t solve the problem without severely restricting the ventilation of the computer boards and/or becoming increasingly complex. Moreover, moving to more complex ventilation systems (such as the nifty exhibit you referenced) just increases complexity, space and cost, taking us in a direction opposite from the goal of replacing a laptop with a desktop in the first place.

It is a bit of a conundrum in my mind. But one thing I like about desktop installations is the ability to spray all the boards, connector slots, etc. with a conductive preservative of some kind. That would help to combat the effects of the salty environment on the computer, I would think.

It would seem that one of the real long-term benefits of moving to a desktop unit - especially for longer term, offshore voyaging in small yachts - is that you can now replace the most vulnerable, failure prone peripherals at relatively low cost and usually with relative ease. As an example of this, I''ve had to deal with two keyboard replacements on laptops; what a joy it would be to just replace a $20 keyboard. Similarly, I''ve watched multiple crews struggle with LCD screen problems on laptops once the screen-to-laptop connector/cable link fails; it appears there''s no real cost effective solution to this. Meanwhile, our flat screen screen (used for DVDs) cost only a bit more than $200 USD and is larger to boot.

Giving the desktop unit a good home (ventilation, protection from moisture, shock-absorption, easy access to ports & slots, etc.) and using easily replaced peripherals at the nav station seems like the way to go...but I lack real-world experience with this option to date, and I haven''t found this too often on smaller offshore boats (which makes me wonder a bit...).

Now that I think about this, it''s worthy of a thread of its own on a relevant BB or two.

Jack
 
#11 ·
GPS & Computer

This may sound stupid but what is the difference between the GPS Map and a
Chart Plotter? Do you need both?

I''m not signing this because it could be a real dumb question and I don''t want anyone to know who I am.

Yea sure
 
#12 ·
GPS & Computer

I would highly recommend a Panasonic Toughbook. I purchased a used one over 6 years ago, and it just won''t die. There aren''t as many bells and whistles as newer laptops(I can''t play DVD''s, only one serial port...), but for reliability they can''t be beat IMO. I use it constantly for navigating, Winlink email, digital pictures...I can''t say enough good things about it. It was pretty pricey even used, but well worth the extra dollars. Another great feature to have is a docking station to attach the GPS, Ham/SSB radio, DC power supply...which then gives one the ability to remove the laptop at a seconds notice without having to unhook all the connections.
Fair winds,
Jim
 
#13 ·
GPS & Computer

I''ll second the sentiment on the Panasonic Toughbook. Got mine on a closeout a few years ago. The only caveat is that they have some sort of draw against their battery even when turned off. Have to recharge mine about every other week.

Also, I was able to get a 12V adapter for mine, so I don''t need to run an inverter to power the unit off boat power. A side benefit is being able to run mapping software in my car on road trips.

Another advantage over a chart plotter is having an honest to gosh Intel based PC that you can run software on. Handy for email and such...
 
#14 ·
GPS & Computer

How about a tablet pc like the Xplore IX104. It runs tablet windows xp so you should be able to use software like Maptech Ocean Navigator and use standard BSB charts. You can get a plug in usb GPS unit (like the earthmate) so you can keep your Garmin as a backup. The display on this unit is daylight readable (unlike most laptops)and the best part of the IX104 is it is submergable. I use an IPaq with a Navman sleeve right now in my cockpit which I am very satisfied with, but should it break I''ll replace it with something like the Xplore unit.
 
#15 ·
GPS & Computer

RE: Clean air circulation for computer

I work as an IT professional. Years ago, I was employed for a local computer company. We had one firm who had many systems in a chemical plant, where there were lots of corrosive things in the air. We devised a rather simple, but very effective system. It extended life on the systems from a few months to several years.

I''m not sure if/how this could be retrofitted to a boat environment, but here''s the basics:

Get one of the air-compressor quick couplers, and drill a hole in the side of the case then mount this. Connect an air source (in our case, one of the plant air compressors). We then reversed all the fans, so they blow OUT of the system, instead of sucking into it. This provides a positive clean air flow into the case, so it doesn''t breathe the outside air.

Like I said, I''m not sure if/how this could be fitted into a boating environment, but maybe some crafty sailor out there can come up with something.

And on the note of Dell computers, they do seem to have their own (or maybe more than normal) share of manufacture/configuration products, but once you get a good unit, they stand up very well. We have a fleet of about 30 laptops, and over 300 desktops in our company, and have great success. Of course, they come in the door and immediately receive our standard ''image'' of installation, so no config problems for us.

Happy sailing
 
#16 ·
GPS & Computer

Whoa !!!!!!

Be wary of blowing compressed air into a computer or other electronic device. Plant compressed air in a chemical plant usually is further routinely conditioned by removal of water (vapor, mists and aerosols) by the usage of either a refrigeration desiccant air dryer to obtain reduced ''dew point'' / humidity content. Otherwise, compressed air is saturated with water vapor and the moisture will/can condense on those surfaces that have a themal difference.

If the compressor is a ''flooded (oil) screw'' compressor and does not include oil mist and vapor removal equipment, you also risk also coating the internals of your computer, etc. with oil !!!
 
#17 ·
GPS & Computer

Corbin39sailor

Now you have REALLY done it!!! One more gizmo to consider!! I''ve spent the last 6 months researching GPS/Chartplotters. I finally made my decision and was about to make my purchase and you show up.

Actually, the tablet pc sounds GREAT. If it runs a wide array of nav software and can interface with a gps, it will be perfect for my uses.

Do you know which navigational software it runs? Can a remote gps antenna be utilized? What about interfacing a depth sounder? etc. etc.

Tell us more!!!

Roger
 
#20 ·
GPS & Computer

Roger, it may stall your product choice a little longer but I''d recommend you read the thread posted on the SSCA''s BB:

http://ssca.org/sscabb/index.php?action=vthread&forum=7&topic=452

I think there are clearly better options than the Tablet PC mentioned, when you consider the task of adding incremental add-on peripherals while wondering if your unique needs as a boater are going to be accommdated by the unique product design intended for other applications.

In the above thread, there are references to PC products that have no fans nor hard drives running, and also to products designed specifically for long-term use on boats, offering little current draw and the cost and replacement-of-peripherals benefits of a desk top. Lots of choices, it would seem, requiring a clear eye on what your needs are when using a PC aboard your boat.

I doubt I will ever again buy a laptop as my primary onboard PC tool, altho'' I''ll probably always have an old laptop aboard since it''s both portable and provides redundancy.

Jack
 
#21 ·
GPS & Computer

Forget the laptop.... I just purchased a GPS Navman sleeve for my handheld pocket PC. Years ago I purchased a 3635 IPAQ by Compaq. It is basically is a PALM hand held computer but it has a Microsoft operating system called windows CE. I syncs with my desktop and it can download files. I originally paid $300, today the units are much more expensive but you cab get Wireless 802.10 internet, bluetooth & GPS built in.
The beauty of the handheld is that you can download charts right from your computer, the same charts that you buy at the marina boat store. For only $19.95 you can go to MAPTECH.com and download their OUTDOOR NAVIGATOR Hand heldPC software and you can have access to all the digitized NOAA CHARTS, simply click and download them to your desktop and then transfer to the handheld. The charts are usually no more than 40K in size and most hand held PC''s will accomodate a Compact Flash expanded memory card to store the maps if they are too large for the hard drive. In fact GARMIN makes a handheld computer with built in GPS for about $500. I personally would get one of the new IPAQ with built in GPS. You can also go to EBAY and get a used IPAQ 3800 for $100 then buy a $50 GPS compact flash from Pharoh or the GPS sleeve with Compact Flash expansion slot to store your charts, that I bought from NAVMAN for $150. Really for $250 you can have GPS, access to all your charts, and a built in chart plotter!
I love my Hand Held IPAQ and I recently used it on a trip from Savannah to Florida! I didn''t even look at a paper chart!
Here are some websites to check out;
http://www.mobileplanet.com
http://www.pdasmart.com (these guys shipped me a new battery overnight 2 days before xams... they were great!!!!)
http://www.maptech.com/products/outdoornavigator/index.cfm
Ebay cruuently has no used IPAQ HH PC''s.
I hope this helps! It made sense for me since I had an old IPAQ lying around!
Terri
 
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