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SSB radios

12K views 89 replies 23 participants last post by  Freesail99 
#1 ·
A previous discussion's got me thinking and challenging my assumptions (which is a good thing - usually...)

Although clearly useful if already mounted on a cruising boat, I left wondering about the utility of purchasing and installing an SSB on a boat without one.

It seems that as sat phones and services become more robust and less expensive, the relative value of SSB to cruisers will fall.

What do you smarter folks think -- has the SSB become the nautical equivalent of the six-button AM dash radio?
 
#2 ·
I could not justify the cost of a SSB. I did buy a SSB receiver so I can listen into the cruiser nets. Satellite phones have come a long way in the past year and prices have dropped radically.
 
#5 · (Edited)
First, to use a Ham you need a license which requires a test. :) Many are not willing to do that or can't find somewhere to get tested. The RRO license for an SSB doesn't require one. Second, most SSB radios, at least the good ones, are as capable as any ham unit.
 
#6 ·
Where with the SSB you can pick up the mike and ask if anybody is listening, I think that would be rather hard to do with a sat phone. Apart from that there are other advantages to SSB, but if they justify the cost of installation I think is a personal decision depending a lot on the cruising area and length of absence from more normal sources of communication.
Ah, and Jody - I don't think so.
 
#7 ·
In an emergency, SSB radios are more useful, since they are broadcast devices, and many more people may hear and respond to a MAYDAY call for assistance, where a Satellite Phone is a point-to-point device, and if no one answers, you're gonna get screwed. Also, the on-going costs of a satellite phone are fairly high. The ham radio and SSB radio don't really have much in the way of costs, outside of the initial investment in equipment.

You can do e-mail on either Ham or SSB radio. WinMail is free via Ham, Sailmail via SSB has a nominal annual fee.
 
#8 ·
Also, the on-going costs of a satellite phone are fairly high. The ham radio and SSB radio don't really have much in the way of costs, outside of the initial investment in equipment.
I agree. We rented an Iridium phone for our last voyage and also bought a "like new" (and it really was) Icom IC718 with tuner and antenna which I installed myself.

The Iridium cost us (rental and calls) about US$1800 for the voyage and we had to give it back. The entire radio setup cost about US$1100 and we still have it :)

And the other point is also really valid. When you are 2500 miles from land and something serious goes wrong, try switching on the Iridium and shouting into it "CALLING ALL SHIPS" :D Or try to get daily weather advice.

I'd like to have an Iridium on board but there is no way I'd swap it for my SSB.

Andre
 
#10 ·
NO... very different things entirely. Different range, different frequency, different radios, different regulations.

CB radio is unlicensed, only has 40 channels, a much more limited range of frequencies covered in the 11-meter bands (27 mhz) and much more limited distance range. In the US, trying to communicate on CB radio at a range over 150 miles is illegal IIRC.

Ham radio generally has much greater range and requires a FCC issued license.
 
#14 ·
Sapper-

I believe you'd need two licenses... one for the SSB frequencies and one for the Ham and CB usage.
But with the proper license level you can use CB and SSB freqs with a ham rig.
 
#15 · (Edited)
The subject of marine SSB vs. ham (amateur radio) has been covered exhaustively on other boards, including the SSCA board.

A few pertinent facts (not opinions):

1. you cannot legally use a ham radio on marine SSB frequencies or CB or anything other than ham-allocated frequencies for which you are licensed except in an extreme (life-threatening) emergency;

2. most modern ham rigs can be made to work on virtually any HF frequency, including marine SSB frequencies (but, as noted in #1 above) it is illegal to use them there unless in an extreme emergency;

3. ham radio transceivers are also SSB, that is, they use single sideband emissions just as do marine SSB transceivers. It's just that in the common parlance, "SSB" has come to mean "marine SSB";

4. a ham license authorizes you to operate on the allocated ham bands according to the class of license you have, and nowhere else;

5. a marine radio license (station license for the boat plus an operator's license for each person operating the radio) authorizes you to use a type-accepted marine radio (not a ham radio) on the authorized marine channels only, and nowhere else;

6. modern ham rigs are often more flexible than marine rigs, having much more frequency agility and many more controls including DSP, IF shift, noise blankers, bandpass adjustments, etc., etc.; and

7. VHF and HF radios transmit signals which can be heard by many stations, including nearby boats. Satphones can contact only the person(s) called, therefore limiting their effectiveness in many emergency situations.

Now for the opinions:

1. For the far-ranging cruising sailor, many experienced sailors believe firmly that an SSB -- marine or ham -- is an essential piece of equipment; and

2. A satellite phone is not an acceptable substitute, since you are limited to point-to-point communications as per #7 above.

Bill
S/V Born Free
WA6CCA
 
#16 ·
Btrayfors, correct me if I've got this wrong, but to clarify-If you have a Marine SSB license and a Ship's Station License and Restricted Radio Operator's License, as well as a Ham License, you can use the Marine SSB Radio to broadcast on Ham frequencies, as well as Marine SSB frequencies, since the SSB radio is type accepted for Marine SSB use, but you can't use a Ham Radio on Marine SSB frequencies, even if you have the appropriate licenses because the radio itself is not type accepted for Marine SSB use.
 
#17 ·
Sat phone is to SSB/Ham radio as cell phones are to VHF radio. One is point to point telephone, the other is a true "radio".

If you have a Ham radio that can receive outside the Ham bands, provided you have a ham license, that is all you need. The radio will get all the wx stuff and you can call for help/send email/do phone patches etc on the Ham radio. One of the few advantages of an SSB would be for commercial traffic. In the Ham radio world there are always thousands of folks hovering over radios and listening, guaranteed.

VE7GJD
 
#18 ·
There are others here that probably have actual and good experience to answer this better than I (I am particularly interested in what Cam has to say). I have an SSB and use it, but mostly for fun.

I think that in relatively short order, satphones will become as prevalent as cell phones, and once that happens SSB will become antiquated (dare I say it). Sort of like Loran and GPS. One of the things you'll get with good reliable satphone service is Internet access. Once you have that, you have access to weather and obviously all the information you possibly can handle on any topic, not to mention actual videophone capability (it's there now with Skype). That's more than you ever can hope to have with SSB.

As to the point about "broadcasting," don't forget, with a satphone you can call 911 (literally), and the Coast Guard always answers the phone. Also, to the point someone made about there needing to be someone to answer the phone when you call, the same is true on SSB; someone needs to be listening to the channel you are broadcasting on. Granted, there are emergency channels, but users do not monitor these constantly just because they have an SSB onboard.

Another comparison to make too is VHF and cell phones. VHF still is used, but it's used a whole lot less because of cell phones. Indeed, radio the coast guard today, and the first question you get is whether you have a cell phone on board that can be used to call them or they you. That tells the whole story right there.

For the immediate time, however, satphone service all at the same time is (i) too unreliable, (ii) not fast enough for Internet, and (iii) too expensive to replace SSB just yet. But that day is coming, and with very few exceptions I bet just about everyone on this board will live to see it. Just my opinion.
 
#30 ·
Another comparison to make too is VHF and cell phones. VHF still is used, but it's used a whole lot less because of cell phones. Indeed, radio the coast guard today, and the first question you get is whether you have a cell phone on board that can be used to call them or they you. That tells the whole story right there.
This assumption is incorrect. The reason the Coast Guard pushes most non life threatening emergencies (in cell areas) over to a cell phone is to keep the radio frequencies clear for the critical emergencies. You are also being very myopic in your view. There is more to the world than US coastal waters and cell phones. In most of the world, dialing 911 on a sat phone won't get you jack.
 
#19 ·
Ham general class license is now much easier to get - no code requirement. The questions are published - memorize the answers to about 300 questions and you are in. Although I have SSB on the boat, I rarely use it except for nets and communication during a rally. I use my Globalstar for e-mail and weather gribs when off-shore as it is much faster than Winlink. For safety, the SSB distress broadcast is good to use in addition to VHF DSC.
 
#20 ·
Dog,

For marine SSB, there are only two licenses, not three. These are:

1. the ships station license; and
2. the operator's license (either restricted or higher).

The ships license is the same one used for all onboard transmitting equipment when you go foreign, or for commercial use.

The operators license comes in different flavors, from the lowest restricted license to the general license (GROL). There are several varieties, but for most people its just the Restricted License which is needed.

Yes, you can use a marine radio on the ham bands IF you have the proper ham license. The reverse is not true, however: you cannot legally use a ham radio on any band other than the ham bands even if you hold licenses for other services (marine, aircraft, etc.). Radios are "type-accepted" by the FCC for specific usage, and no ham radio is type-accepted for marine use.

The use of a non-ham radio (e.g., marine, commercial, military) on the ham bands is generally accepted practice because a licensed ham operator can build his own radio or modify other radios to work on the ham bands.

Note, however, that the reverse is not necessarily true. If you modify a type-accepted radio in most any way, it will nullify the type-acceptance for use on the originally intended band.

Plumper,

You can use a ham radio or any other radio to receive anywhere -- at least in the U.S.. But, you cannot use it to transmit anywhere except on the portions of the ham bands for which you hold a valid license.

What does this mean, in practice?

1. Anyone, licensed or not, can purchase and install a ham transceiver and can use it to listen on any band/frequency desired. This includes ham, marine, aircraft, weather fax, etc., etc.

2. You cannot use this radio to transmit, however, except on the portions of the ham bands for which you are licensed.

3. In an extreme emergency you can use any means to attract attention and call for help. You might have to fight with the FCC or other authority later on, but if it's a bonafide emergency and you have no other legitimate means of getting help, you'll likely be in a good position.

Bill
 
#21 · (Edited)
Dan,

Satphones cannot and will not ever replace SSB. It's not a question of technology, i.e., reliability or cost or coverage or access to the Internet. It's a question of typology.

Satphones are point-to-point. They connect you with ONE OTHER point.

Radios are point-to-multiple point. There are over 1,000,000 licensed hams in the world and they are located all over the world. When you pick up the mic on a ham radio, you have the potential of talking to, and/or being heard or overheard by many, many stations. Ditto for marine SSB, though the community is much smaller.

You have only to do some active cruising with a SSB or a ham radio to know. Or, if you're landbound, listen into the marine SSB and the ham SSB nets: the Waterway Net on 7268LSB daily at 0745 EDT; the Cruisheimer's Net daily on 6227USB at 0830EDT; the Maritime Mobile Net daily on 14300USB noon to 9PM; etc., etc.

On these nets, boats check in to report their positions; learn where other boats are; hook up with them; obtain the latest weather reports; obtain help when they are in difficulty; talk to the Coast Guard in real emergencies (yes, the Coast Guard comes up on the ham nets); check propagation; get info on just about anything imaginable; etc., etc.

On a given day, some 50 or so cruising boats will check in on Cruiseheimers'; about 20 or more will check in on the Waterway Net; many others will check in on the MM Net, the Hurricane Net, the Safety and Security Net in the Caribbean, the NW Caribbean Net, the Pacific Seafarers Net, the Southeast Asian Net, and many, many others.

You can't do any of this with a satphone.

And, despite advances in technology, you never will be able to.

Bill
 
#22 ·
So, I can transmit from a marine SSB transceiver on ham bands if I have the proper class ham license? That is, if the radio can operate on ham bands (and I already have my ships station license, and the SSB operator's license), can I also have a ham license (proper class for said ham band) and use the SSB rig on those ham bands it can pick up?

Is a good marine SSB type accepted for ham use also is what I'm getting at (provided you are ham licensed)

Thanks in advance btrayfors, I'm sure you've said it a thousand times already:D
 
#23 ·
Sapper-

I don't believe the FCC requires Ham Radio gear to be Type Accepted like the Marine SSB does, since Ham radio operator's often build their own equipment. Bill will correct me if I'm wrong. :)
 
#25 ·
I got that from earlier. I'm asking if you can use a marine SSB rig to transmit on the ham nets that the marine ssb rig can pick up, provided you are fully licensed to do so (holding ship station, marine ssb, and proper class level ham license).

If yes, do you use your ham call sign when on the ham bands, but using the marine SSB rig? (that could get confusing)
 
#24 ·
btrayfors, I take your points, and I didn't mean to sugges that SSB's all will get thrown in the garbage within the next 6 months are anything like that. But, whereas historically an SSB has been pretty much required gear for bluewater trips or long distance cruising, I believe that will change.

Every single thing you mentioned in fact can be done via satphone and/or the Internet. You say that 50 to 100 cruisers check in on netsn every day; I'm sure you're right. But that exact same thing can be done via an Internet board. Right this very moment cruisers can use a satellite tracking device so that their positions are tracked on the Internet, updated hourly (check out www.iboattrack.com). That kind of thing will become more prevalent, and when it does the need to check in with SSB nets will be diminshed, if not eliminated. Same holds true for weather routing and anything else that you can think of for which you would need an SSB net.

Likewise, there are party lines for phones, conference call capabilities, IM, chat rooms for real time multi-party discussions, and the list goes on and on. While SSB's remain incredibly useful today, I believe that really will change. There is a social aspect of cruisers' nets right now, but that really can be replicated with phone calls. It may even get more social with conference videocalls via Skype or another provider.

I'm really not kidding. Just a few short years ago the only way to coordinate with friends, clubs, events, etc. on the water was to schedule times to connect via VHF. Now, you hardly ever use the VHF; you just flip open your cell phone. That's exactly the same situation that you have on the high seas now with SSB, and that's only because satphone technology and cost (and they go hand in hand) just haven't gotten there yet.

Again, I mean no disrespect, and we're all just prognosticating here so who knows what the future will hold, but I think the SSB radio has seen its xenith and is on the backside of its useful lifespan as a technology.
 
#26 · (Edited)
Sapperwhite,

Yes. You can use the marine rig on the ham bands, if you have a ham license.

Most marine rigs -- in fact, all of them that I know about -- are capable of operating on the ham bands as well as the marine bands, though some may require special "programming".

The problem is, most marine SSBs although capable of operating on the ham bands are not very convenient. They don't have the frequency agility of ham rigs, with a few exceptions. The Icom 802 which is often advertised as being capable of both marine and ham operation indeed has a VFO which allows you to tune the bands, but it has detents and the architecture of the radio just isn't very intuitive to my mind. Many folks find it OK, though. It's probably what you're used to.

I routinely use an older marine SSB on the ham bands...a little-known Kenwood TKM-707. Great little rig. And, I choose to do so despite having at any time more than 20 other options: ham rigs, marine rigs, commercial rigs, and military rigs! I just love the 707.

On my boat, I have another little-know marine SSB: the Yaesu FT-600 alongside my Yaesu FT-900AT ham rig. It's also a fine little rig. See pic here: Gallery :: Miscellaneous 2007 :: NavStn_0140

Bill
 
#27 ·
Thanks Bill, just what I needed to know.

One other thing, I have limited space and can't have both rigs aboard. Say I get an Icom 802 and learn to live with its function on ham bands. I would have to use my ham call sign while on those ham bands correct?
 
#28 ·
Yes, that's correct.

While it does seem a bit complicated in the beginning, think of it this way.

A marine license allows you to transmit on the marine bands only.

A ham license allows you to transmit on the ham bands only.

You can listen anywhere.

You can use any radio on the ham bands.

On the marine bands, you can only legally use a radio which has been type-accepted for use on the marine bands.

In an extreme emergency, you can use any radio on any band to attract attention and get needed help.

Many sailors routinely use ham radios on the marine bands (illegally). They may or may not get away with it over time.

Bill
 
#29 ·
Daniel,

I take your points, but find it just a little sad.

I guess it boils down to whether or not you believe that texting via the Internet is somehow better or more desirable or more fun than actually communicating directly with someone.

Maybe it's a generational thing. Hmmm....would I rather talk to someone in the flesh or on the phone, or should I just text him/her? Damn...my thumbs are getting sore, guess I'll have to resort to the old technology and make a call :)

NB: not every vessel afloat has a computer. Or a text screen. Or connection to the Internet. Or, thank god, wants to.

But almost all have a VHF. And, long-distance cruisers have a SSB which they can switch on in the morning and listen to while they're making breakfast, fixing a piece of broken gear, herding the kids, looking over new charts, or eating some papaya with lime juice. Try that while you're glued to the keyboard :)

Bill
 
#32 ·
Dog,

Yes, Plumper is correct. It will vary from country to country.

In the U.S., Amateur Radio transmitters do not require type acceptance although external HF power amplifiers and kits do require type acceptance.

However, as in all things where the government has a hand, it's not quite so simple.

All RF-emitting devices require FCC "approval" or "certification" in some form or other. This is to ensure that they don't create unwanted interference with other devices. There's a certification procedure, a notification procedure, a verification procedure, a declaration of conformity, etc., etc. The type-acceptance procedure generally pertains to radios used in the various licensed services: marine, aircraft, police, land mobile, etc. (but not, as stated above, to ham radios except for amplifiers).

You can read all about it here: ARRLWeb: FCC Part-15 Rules: Unlicensed RF Devices

Bill
 
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