SailNet Community banner
  • SailNet is a forum community dedicated to Sailing enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about sailing, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, repairs, reviews, maintenance, and more!

How to rewire a marine electrical panel - Free report

14K views 31 replies 14 participants last post by  smackdaddy 
#1 ·
Greetings to the electrical thinkers. I just saw the forum on spaghetti in the electrical system and thought I would post this link. It's a step by step article on how to rewire a marine electrical panel.

The article is here-

Re-wire an electrical panel

Hope you get a few ideas out of it.

Scott
 
#4 ·
Gary- Thank you for the comment.

Maybe we should do a separate thread about successful crimps. I worked at Ocean Currents years ago and we tested every type of crimp tool we could find. The reason was we seemed to come across a lot of crimps that let the wire go. One of the worst seemed to be the ratcheting type criimper that flattens the crimp, but leaves the insulation in tact. The toothed crimp never seems to fail, but like you point out the insulation gets a hole in it.

What do you use? And has it ever come loose?

Scott
 
#7 ·
Scott,
If I told you I've never had crimped connections fail, you should seriously question my expertise! I've done lots of crimped connections the way you show, because in a pinch when you don't have the right tool, it is certainly the best alternative.

The idea that an insulated terminal can be crimped until there is no air between the strands is bunk. No plastic exists that can take the pressure that requires. So an insulated connector is NOT going to be as mechanically good as a noninsulated connector. So putting heat shrink over a properly crimped bare connector would be the best of both worlds, but it takes longer. However electrical efficiency and mechanical strength are not the same thing. So how much mechanical strength do you really need?

I think the big issue with insulated connectors and crimpers is whether the tool was designed for the connectors, and is of good quality. I'd bet if you checked with Ancor they test their tools on their connectors and no others. Their engineering says that works, and they guarantee. Use someone else's tool or connectors and you have introduced a variation that no one can control.

I have been building electrical panels a long time time used crimped connections. The first was a control panel for unloading dry powders from rail cars 45 years ago, when I was 11. I'd been working with my dad, an electrician, during the summer when he got the job to build this panel. We drew up the electrical schematic together, and I actually wired it in the shop we had in our garage.

So over the years I've owned just about every crimper you have ever seen. I have a couple of very good ones though, that don't work worth a damn. My suspicion is that they are worn out, but don't look it, need some kind of adjustment, or only work well with specific connectors.
 
#8 ·
One thing that hasn't been mentioned here. MARKING your wires! One of the first things I teach new guys is that you should never do any wiring without marking the wires at every place they land. The purpose is to ensure you have landed the wires every place your drawing shows. You DID make a drawing first, right? When the fit hits the shan nothing saves troubleshooting time like a correct drawing! I've seen people wire a panel then go back and put the markings on. So you have it numbered right, but connected a wire wrong and it doesn't work, now what?

Some years ago I went to work for a company that built packaging machinery. I had just started, it was my second day , and they were trying to get a machine out the door but it wouldn't run. The guy doing the wiring asked for my help. I asked for the drawing and he started telling me how it was supposed to work. I told him to give me the drawing or fix it himself. I looked at the drawing and verified that the circuit would work. Then I started cutting and moving wires. I told him to try the machine now and it ran perfectly. He asked what I had done. I told him "I just made it look like the drawing!"
 
#9 ·
"One of the worst seemed to be the ratcheting type criimper that flattens the crimp, but leaves the insulation in tact. The toothed crimp never seems to fail, but like you point out the insulation gets a hole in it. "
Two points here: If there is a "tooth" then you probably have a staking tool, not a crimper. A crimper just compresses the fitting, a staking tool "drives a stake" into it. And while staking may be effective and a great way to make things fit with wrong sizes--it isn't the same as crimping.

Ratcheting crimping tools used to cost $50 and up, typically $100 and up, a bare ten years ago. There's a mess of cheap stuff coming out of China that is "made to spec" out of stamped plates (instead of a cast die) where the spec was written with invisible ink, driving the price down to $35 in the auto parts chains and I'm sure less from a certain "China's Finest" company. I think you'd find a properly adjusted, properly machined tool from Amp or Amphenol or even Palladin will make crimps that you can't pull apart.

And, the tools are designed either for bare or insulated crimps--those are two different size dies! Then there are the crimps themselves, a "proper" one will have a seamless copper inner sleeve, not just be a formed piece of tinned metal. No inner sleeve? Sometimes I wonder how anything from mixed vendors works at all. :)
 
#10 ·
I'm not sure what the issue is, but I keep getting an error message in place of some of the images. I have tried Chrome V3.0.195.38, and IE V8 under Windows 7...

Here is an example from the webpage. I have underlined the error to help ID the issue;
A typical 70-breaker panel takes about three days to completely re-wire. This same system also works on main battery cable distribution

Your browser may not support display of this image. Your browser may not support display of this image. Your browser may not support display of this image. Your browser may not support display of this image.

Sometimes the electrical system has been giving random trouble for a long time. Turn on an electrical device and it works this week. Next time nothing happens, causing frustration for the crew.
 
#12 ·
Oddly enough, I pulled up the 'source code' view of the page, and it's actually hard-coded into the page as a paragraph. To me it appears to be an html coding error on the part of the page designer. Although I'm getting images on the side of the page and not inline.
 
#14 ·
If you are getting or want to meet the UL/CSA or a standard of some sort the best thing is to use connectors that meet that standard. Then use the tool for those connectors, then review the manufacturers procedure for using the tool and then use that procedure for every connection. Lots of work but sure is sweet when the inspector looks at a month worth of work and finds no problems.

Of course in the field a pair of Kleins can do anything up to about a #2 and then a hammer and punch can be used for the big stuff....LOL, just kidding but seen it done.
 
#16 ·
Does anyone know of a good drawing program for marine electrical wiring. Something that will check the completeness of the circuits, etc. Rather than just starting to poke around, I would like to draw what it should look like.
 
#19 ·
If you're unsure of your math, I would bet you could set up something in a spreadsheet to run the calcs for you. Excel does that kind of stuff pretty well. Speaking as a scatterbrained kind of person, I never trust my math, and need to lay it all out to be sure.
Otherwise a calculator should get you through.
 
#17 · (Edited)
Try one of these.

I'd recommend ProfiCAD out of the ones listed there.
 
#18 ·
"Something that will check the completeness of the circuits, etc."
I don't think even the expensive CAD packages will do that, simply because there are so many ways to design a circuit.
Drawing software is common enough. Vertical-market CAD software tends to get expensive fast. And complicated to learn.
I'd call boat wiring a job for simple drawing software, and if checking it for completeness is a problem, hire on an electrician to check over the design while you're at it.
Personally, I like a pencil and big sheet of paper for a job like this. With eraser. Documenting it on the computer afterwards is just prettywork. Designing it on the computer, not worth the trouble to me.
 
#21 ·
Nick, I'm not against CAD, I just think the time and effort it takes to find a CAD program (not just drawing but electrical circuit CAD that can check circuit logic), install the program, come up the learning curve on the program, get comfortable or competent on the program, is WAY MORE TIME AND TROUBLE than using a pencil to draw the wiring for one boat.

For the QE2, things are a little different. But for the "out and back" runs on a sailboat? OK, maybe CAD is safer than having a pointy sharp stick on the boat.<VBG>
 
#22 ·
Not quite.

Thanks for the list sailingdog None seem to do what I was hoping for. :mad: I am fairly comfortable with dedicted CAD programs; designed our house with "Home Design" and moder railroad with "xtrkcad" and just finished doing the electronic upgrade for new (to me ) boat with Maretron's N2Builder program but it looks as if it will be back to TurboCad, which I usually use, for this project.
Thanks.
 
#23 · (Edited by Moderator)
Hellosailor,

I agree that spending the time to find a free, or affordable, CAD package that also checks circuts is not worth it. My point is unless you are copying an existing drawing using CAD will allow you much more flexibility in making changes and cleaning up the drawing. By hand you have to erase and redraw components and wires. If you have the same component (like fuses or breakers) you have to draw each one, there is no cut and paste. The largest benefit is having an editable electronic copy of the drawing. I have a thumb drive with all of my documentation for my boat. Having rewired my boat last winter I will say the CAD drawing of the electrical schematic was great. It also allowed me to layout my panel so when I finally cut the board to fit the panel and its sub-componets there were no surprises.

I have drawn prints for complicated mechanical components and electrical schematics by hand. I enjoy dong that, but when I can do it in one tenth the time with CAD... There was a time when I could draw faster by hand. However the first time I had to make a change that time savings was negated.

Spinwing, PM me if you want a copy of my electical schematic for my boat.
 
#24 ·
"My point is unless you are copying an existing drawing using CAD will allow you much more flexibility in making changes and cleaning up the drawing. "
Nick, I must have lowered expectations. To me, a pencil drawing with imperfect hand-drawn lines is good enough, and the changes...Changes?! What, do I have have to add a separate breaker for the Blu-Ray player? <VBG>

But then again, I'm one of those guys who doesn't iron a number of things in my laundry, either.

What I'd really like to find is a way to print LABELS in a simple, permanent way. Not "laser then laminate" not "Brother thermal turns black" but just a nice way to print labels, short of sending things out to an engraving shop.
 
#25 ·
<vbg>

What I'd really like to find is a way to print LABELS in a simple, permanent way. Not "laser then laminate" not "Brother thermal turns black" but just a nice way to print labels, short of sending things out to an engraving shop.
You just need the right Brother P-Touch labels and they won't turn black. The ones I use are for labeling wiring. I then do a clear heat shrink over the label and it is about as permanent as it gets. Each wire is also labeled under the "label" with a fine point Sharpie permanent marker just in case...

Have not had one label turn black like the standard labels do when you heat shrink. Next time I go to the boat I will let you know the part # of the label tape..





 
#26 ·
I also like to use the label printers that print on heat shrink tubing. Check out any electronics website and you will find them. I use Alliedelec.com.

Hellosailor, I am a bit anal when it comes to schematics. Partly due to my work and partly due to the PO of my boat. The pencil drawn schematic had not been updated as additional systems were added and old ones removed. I ended up rewiring the entire boat. As I add componenets I updated my schematic. It helps me make sure I am connecting everything correctly and reminds me what I did origianlly so if I need to troubleshoot I can easily. It will be a huge help when I go to sell the boat later.

Again, personal preference.
 
#27 ·
Maine-
I've used a variety of PTouches over the years and in my experience, they all have gone black from heat. Worse, the black Sharpie (genuine!) ink actually can migrate through their plastic over time as well. SImilar to the old argument about whether it will migrate into CDs and DVDs and ruin them--but it doesn't migrate into those, different plastic involved.

Nick-
Wow, $200 for the label maker and $32 per roll of tape? And I didn't see any mention of it being a common thermal printer, so apparently someone has built a professional (not office supply) grade label maker. Now tell me, if you didn't already have access to one for work...would you, did you, still ante up $300 just for a label maker and labels for the boat wiring??
Or are there any that cost substantially less? (Heck, the PTouch even goes black after a couple of years on my laptop's keyboard!)
 
#28 · (Edited by Moderator)
Hello-
If it makes you feel any better I just used a fine tip sharpie on the labels as the printer from work was broken. For a few dollars you can find labels and a dispenser that are vinyl, have a white patch to write on and a larger clear section that covers the writing. I then put clear shirk wrap over these. I like these labels as they are much easier to use on smaller gauge wires since the writing shrinks too.

Of course you can get zip ties with label flags on them that you can write on. You can get blank snap on labels (I would cover these with heat shrink as they do tend to fall off).

If you are worried about the PTouch labels turning black you can get the labels and printers that use multiple cartidges. One is a colored background, one is toner, and one is a clear overcoat. No heat transfer. However, the printers are more expensive. It depends on how professional you want your labels to look. As long as they are identifiable that is fine.
 
#29 ·
One really cheap and simple solution is an extra fine tip Sharpie and white electrical tape. :D
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top