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The Under 40' Offshore Boat Thread!

9K views 15 replies 9 participants last post by  Powerbb 
#1 · (Edited)
Since the suggestion was made... and I happen to be mulling this over...
I took the lead on the hint from the other thread.

Originally Posted by 3Reefs
I've got the same search, though with less money, and happily taking a few feet off. But here is a short list. Would anyone have a stab at ranking the list -- purely in relation to seaworthiness. So capsize resistance, higher AVS, robust build, seakindly shape. All the rest, the space, the looks, the tankage, etc etc, is essentially malleable. Pure seaworthiness is what I want to focus on at outset. You'll see I've left off Tayana 37, Ingrid 38, HansChristian, etc because I just think they are too heavy, too tank-like, and I want a boat that's strong, but lighter than those. A boat that could sail out of trouble, not just plough through it. Here goes (in no particular order):

Wauquiez Pretorien 35
Bayfield 36
Morgan 382
Southern Cross 39
Sabre 38
Bristol 40
Spencer 35/42
Valiant 37
Valiant 40
PSC 37
Shannon 38
Rafiki 37 (the only 'Tayana' type, but actually lighter than Tayanas and, I understand, better sailers).

I'd create a new thread on this...
I'm thinking about what I want in an offshore boat. Must be pleasing to the eye (Bermuda 40, Sea Sprite 34, Pilot 35, Allied Princess, Alberg 35 etc..) but they are a little snug and slow. I do like what I've seen of the Morgan 382, Bristol 40 and Valiant 37 as well as some others. Boat would be singlehanded occasionally and couple sailed the rest of the time w/ the rare visitor. J40 would possibly do, but I think the storage on them is lacking. I have spent some time at sea on a CS40 and have *heard* the CS36T is an even better boat. Pearson 39 would be an acceptable boat but ... I'm not sure.

I would prefer to have at least one pilot berth, and/or a good quarter berth. Nice motion at sea is at least as important as being fast.
I'm not liking the modern styles nor the H-R's.
 
#2 ·
List is (at least) one short...

Strong, fast, not too heavy, and with tens of thousands of ocean-crossing miles on the design... Mostly all out there cruising, but one also won everything in the last Pacific Cup race, too.

That would be a Cascade 36.
They have been called the "affordable circumnavigator" with good reason.
 
#3 ·
That would be a Cascade 36.
I had never heard of them. Your post got me to look them up in Yachtworld.

Here is one very nice example; 1969/Cascade-Sloop/San-Carlos,-Sonora/Mexico
Hard dodger, 10' dinghy w/ 15hp outboard, and integral anchor platform. $36K

Looks like a great boat!

They seem to be mainly on the west coast of North America...
 
#6 ·
My rank ordered list

I own and single hand a completely refitted Wauquiez Pretorien in New England, so I may be prejudiced. But I've sailed several of these on deliveries and I am aware of their design characteristics and construction quality (which is a really big deal in the case of a used yacht) Here is my ranking:


Sabre 38

Wauquiez Pretorien 35
Valiant 37
Valiant 40

Shannon 38
Bristol 40

Southern Cross 39

This following ranking I am less sure about. I am working more from theory, but I propose:

Morgan 382
Spencer 35/42
Bayfield 36
PSC 37

Rafiki 37 (the only 'Tayana' type, but actually lighter than Tayanas and, I understand, better sailers).

Captain Richard D. Buchanan
S/V Fianna
Portland, ME
 
#7 ·
The Spencer 35/42 are both long keel designs similar to the Alberg 37 and many others. Very solid boats many of which have crossed oceans and circumnavigated. The late Hal Roth's Whisper is a Spencer 35 and a neighbor is currently near the Horn in his 35. The Spencer 1330 is a more modern design with a long fin keel and a rudder on a substantial skeg. All were very well built. Here's the link to the owners group SYOG-index
Here are the profiles of the 35, 42, and 1330 There is a later version of the 35 with a shorter boom and a slightly taller mast and a squared off rudder.
 

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#8 ·
Ranking by seaworthiness

Hi, thanks Sailordave for seizing this thread by the horns. I started a new one doing the same thing. To avoid further confusion, would be great if everyone stuck to this one, since it's already kicked off.

But PLEASE can everyone stick to the idea of my original question:

NOT enter a general discussion about bluewater cruisers, but rank the shortlist of ocean boats I drew up and rank them ONLY for seaworthiness. NOT for beauty/livability/ etc. Just performance in the rough stuff, resistance to capsize, happiness in gale conditions, construction of hulls, rudders, etc.

Discussing beauty and comfort is so subjective. I'd really like if for once we focused on the single most important attribute of a true 'go anywhere' boat: ability to sail in all conditions.

Thanks.
 
#11 ·
Mitiempo, thank you for that decisive looking reordering of my shortlist. can you shed a bit of light on your thoughts? The Valiants, given everything I've learned, seem to deserve the top spot. The V40 at least has successfully ventured into Southern Ocean passages. Everything seems to suggest the 37 is just a smaller version of the same fine boat. The Spencer 35 -- I know that has an amazing record of passagemaking, including the famous Hal Roth expeditions. But I have found little feedback on the 42. Is the 42 truly an equal but bigger version of 35 in this respect? How do you put Southern Cross and Sabre midway? They seem to have a lot of good points. Not the name recognition of PSC and Shannon to be sure. Any more feedback much appreciated.
Thanks all.
 
#12 ·
3Reefs
The Spencer 42 is essentially an enlarged Spencer 35. If you compare their numbers on Sail Calculator Pro v3.53 - 2000+ boats you'll find they are very close. These both predate the Valiant designs. The reason I put the Southern Cross and the Sabre farther down is that they can't all be first.:) The only boat on the list I am not exited about is the Bayfield, a design I have never liked the looks of, both above the water (bowsprit with trailboards) and below the water (keel a bit long).
 
#13 ·
All makes sense, Mitiempo. Only probs with Spencers is there seem to be few around, they can be very old -- even by standards of those of us hunting for old boats! -- and the cockpits look massive. But of course none of that need outweigh the many good points. Sabres seem to have a terrific build and reputation, though the old-fashioned salt in me has trouble getting used to that non-skeg-hung rudder. Is it a deal breaker or do I need to 'get with it'? The Southern Cross has good specs and seems right for the job. However, they have bowsprits, possibly not a deal breaker, but a bank balance breaker in marinas. Anyone else want to rank boats according to which will look after you best in a bad blow? What I can make out of Bristol 40s is that they certainly can cross oceans, but are not designed explicitly with that in mind. The enormous cockpits and absence of a bridge deck obviously come to mind. Of course that too can be rectified and would be worth rectifying if the hull/construction/stability etc amounted to a true blue ocean boat. The Valiant 40 has one major problem, at least for me, and that's cost. Valiant 37s.... maybe ideal?
 
#14 ·
As far as the non-skeg rudders are concerned, wander around a boatyard and look at boats that are hauled out. In many cases the rudder and its post are holding the skeg on. If you shake a few you'll see where the strength comes from. If I was having a boat designed today it would be a spade rudder without a skeg. Built with suitable strength of course.
As far as the older Spencers, yes they are older but if well kept and upgraded that isn't always a problem.
I agree with the bowsprit comments as there are also anchoring issues to deal with and it's a lousy place to be when it's rough.
 
#15 ·
The Cascade36 is interesting. ( I looked at a listing a few months ago) IIRC it has a rather large bowsprit.

The CapeDory36 (now the Robinhood36 I believe) is another I like the lines of and it sure seems like it would be a comfortable boat and still have some decent speed.

Hinckley 38 made my list also although it's not as pretty as the Pilot 35 or B40. Faster though!

Tartan37 of course.

And I'm surprised JEFFH hasn't chimed in here.
 
#16 ·
Allied Princess 36'

I just purchased an Allied Princess 36', so far I love everything about it. The reverse steering wheel with worm gear steering system is great and it really opens up the cockpit. 4'6" draft with 5000lbs of lead at the bottom makes her extremely stable at sea. plenty of storage, and she looks damn good. The price you can get this boat at is also unbeatable. Its a buyers market, make them an offer and they will accept.
 
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