[sailingdog]

Originally Posted by damies

And this was why I mentioned my experience, It was a big part of my learning curve as beginning Multi sailor. It's the sort of information I wish I had found when I was starting. If I had read about this I may not have capsized, cause I would have known what to do. Nothing beats first hand experience, but I try to read everything I can find on a topic before trying something new. Mostly 'cause I believe in learning from others mistakes where possible

SD You are in a much better position than me to write a comprehensive list of tips for mono sailors converting to Multi. This is an example of the things to include. I had not found such a list, perhaps in a new thread.

This is one reason I recommend Mike McMullen's book, Multihull Seamanship. Unfortunately, this book is fairly difficult to find as it has been out of print for quite some time.

These are all over 30'! My point was about smaller Cats, particularly 30' (9m) and under, in this range, there are not many bridge deck Cats, most are open deck (Wharram's, Seawind 24's, etc) and have much smaller and less comfortable accommodations than a similar sized Tri. Again from my experiance, I looked at a 26' Wharram and found while it had more berths on paper than my 24' Piver, It had much less cabin space. Cruising on these 2 boats, I would consider it on the Piver, no way on the Wharram (though others have). It all boils down to what comfort levels you are prepared to accept within you budget.

All boats are compromises, and we have to pick which ones we can accept.

Actually, there are a lot of cats in the <30' range. The Heavenly Twins 26 and its relatives, the Iroquois, the Oceanic, the older Geminis started at 30' with the Gemini 3000, and so on.

Another small catamaran, the Stiletto 27 is a great little cruising cat, but it is very primitive in terms of accommodations... however, it makes up for this by being a freaking rocketship... The thing displaces half of what my Telstar does and has more sail area...

While these designs are old, there are a lot of them around, they have stood the test of time and not been trashed by capsizing (whether by prudent sailing or good design, is another debate for another thread). Point is they are still sailing and are available at an affordable price. mackconsult never said what his budget was, The information I gave is exactly the information I would have found useful if it was given to me. I hope it is useful to someone else too.

SD I don't wish to disagree with what you say, I don't I fully agree (besides I think you know way more than me about Multi's). Just not everyone is in the market for new or near new 30+' boats, and so I was seeking to give advice to the rest of us

I know Piver's aren't considered great designs by Tri Standards, but mine has been great for me as a first boat I paid money for, as a boat that gets me on the water, and as low risk (financially) way of getting familiar with sailing a multi. It was the cheapest (lowest risk) way I get out on the water again, the thinking being if I totally messed up and wrote the boat off running into rocks or capsizing or something like that, well I lost what I paid for the boat. While it would hurt (emotionally mostly), it wouldn't bankrupt me, and it still allows my family to remain comfortable. I guess I am offering a different perspective to Sell/mortgage the house and buy a big new(ish) Cat when buying your first Multi. Maybe because I'm risk adverse, but to me that was a huge risk.

The Piver designs were really the ones that started the whole cruising trimaran class in many ways. The biggest problem with Piver designs is that they tended to get a bad reputation because so many of them were home-built by people using shoddy materials and construction methods. Properly built, they are pretty solid little boats.

I'd point out that Tony Smith, the designer of my Telstar and the Gemini catamaran, started out on a Piver design a long, long time ago. In fact, I believe it was a Piver Nugget. I am guessing that Piver was a fairly strong influence on Tony Smith and his designs. From the ITOA website:

Most trimaran enthusiasts are aware of Arthur Piver who is known as the “father of the modern trimaran.” Piver was a WWII fighter pilot, amateur sailor, and print-shop owner in Sausalito, California. In the 1950’s and 60’s Piver designed and built a series of simple three-hulled sailboats constructed from plywood. Around 1960, Piver single-handedly sailed one of his 30’ designs from Swansee, Massachusetts to the Azores and on to Plymouth, England. This trip went a long way to proving the inherent sea worthiness of Piver’s designs and trimarans in general.

Nearly as soon as Piver set foot on land at Plymouth, Nobby Clarke, a car salesman from Cox Automobiles (soon to become Cox Marine), shook Piver’s hand and struck a deal to build and sell Piver Trimarans throughout Europe. The cruising multihull industry was thus born.

Not content to just sell completed boats, Piver sold plan drawings for a range of plywood trimarans ranging from the 16’ Frolic to the 65’ Empress. Piver firmly believed that any practical person with some common sense and diligence could build a trimaran capable of sailing around the world. The do-it-yourself concept and Piver designs were immensely popular and inspired thousands of novices to build and sail their own trimarans - each one tweaked with whatever the owner though important and worthwhile.

At the ripe old age of 19, Tony Smith bought a set of Piver Trimaran plans and proceeded to build a 24’ Nugget trimaran in a shed in East Anglia, England. Throughout the Winter of 1964, Tony completed the boat and single-handedly sailed the boat 500 miles from the east coast of England to west coast of France and back. With the knowledge associated with building the boat and experience of sailing the design, Tony was invited to join with Eric Willis of Cox Marine in the first two-handed, 2000 mile Round Britain Race in 1966. Smith and his partner managed to finish 4th out of a fleet of 36 boats.

Within a year, Tony took to designing his own 26’ trimaran with the intention of racing in the 1968 single-handed Transatlantic. The race required that each skipper have a minimum of 500 miles of single-handed sailing just to qualify. Tony’s first design, dubbed the Endeavor, consisted of plywood construction and was designed to self-right and self-steer. “It’s interesting to look back and consider all that has happened following the simple act of putting pen to paper and designing a trimaran,” says Tony.

The Jim Brown Searunners were also very solid boats, but the problem with the Searunners is that they are relatively slow designs, with less than stellar sailing characteristics. While they're fine for island hopping, they do tend to be a lot slower than more modern designs. They also don't point as well, due the the excessive windage that their extended wingdeck cabins present.

Many modern multihull converts are in it for the sailing performance. Some of the older designs are capable of giving them this... but many really aren't.

I will say in defence of the Piver I bought, It has achieved and well exceed everything I had hoped it would when I bought it, in that respect I guess you could say it is a great boat.

Dave.

Is there really any more you can ask for in a boat??? It is much as I say in my signature... you've got to love the boat you have... if you don't you've got the wrong boat.
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