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Originally Posted by Melrna
…The Bluewater Sailing gave the Beneteau a favorable review…. " Are boat reviews honest without causing harm to manufactures"! With a responsibility of editors to the industry as a whole, ad dollars and the subscription of sailors can there be a true honesty of what is written. My personal thoughts are no. Too much is at stake for the industry as a whole. …. The utopia of true honesty of boat designs is making the boating industry responsible for making a boat/parts that is safe, good engineering and parts that last more than a few seasons. I believe without it what I am seeing in the recent crop of boats are poor design and engineering will continue for the sake of chasing dollars and market appeal. …
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Melrna,
I like Bluewater sailing magazine. Their boat tests are more complete than in other American magazines and they seem pretty accurate to me. But off course, it is comprehensible that they would have a problem in saying loud and clear what they think about what they consider the less good features of a boat (publicity and all) but you can read pretty well between the lines.
I am not saying that magazine boat tests are not partial…they are, but you can figure it out:
If I want a fair test on a French Boat, well, I look at the Italian, English or German sailing magazines, if I want a fair test of a German boat, I look at the French mags
. In the end you can have a good idea of a boat potential and value.
About poor boat design, I am sorry but I don’t agree with you. Boat architects, particularly French ones are very good. Almost all of them come from the racing school and most of them are still design racing boats. If they design Oceanis the way they do, it is because these kinds of boats are the compromise most people want, and therefore they are well designed because they respond correctly to a need. For more demanding sailors Beneteau has the “First” line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad
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The issue is, in my humble opinion, that the market began to grow away from the traditional sailing boat. People wanted many of the amenities of home. They wanted refrigeration. THey wanted air conditioning. Water makers. Washer dryers. Large showers. Large TV's. Countless electronincs.
… Bigger boats cost more money - lots more money. As anyone who has ever shopped boats can tell you, cost-foot is not linear, it is exponential.
This has in-turn created a market where larger boats are the norm. However, the cost of these boats is extreme. A new Catalina 400, with any real gear on it, will push the 300+k range. Bene and Hunter are no different. That breaks the budget of many would-be sailors. SO in an effort to keep the costs at a minimum (like 300 is a minimum), they cut corners where they can. Typically, I believe these cuts are not safety related. However, I have seen winch sizes drop, joinery go down hill, fewer cabinets, considerably less access to available space/systems, cheaper blocks and gear, etc. Anything to shave some money off the boat on a production basis.
Now out of all this have also come some technological advances. The new laminates, grids, liners, acrylic hatches, and better ways of making a product and making it cheaper. We also have many losses, like tabbed bulkheads, solid toe rails, tall lifelines, etc. I find many of the things that many of the new boats leave off (especially on the smaller vessels) are things a offshore sailor would appreciate and a coastal or weekend sailor might not even know about!
Is all this bad? I don't know. I have all those systems I seemed to demonize. I probably would not go without them. I also have made MANY changes to my 400 to get her up to spec that probably cost me more than if I had just bought a typical bluewater boat up front. In fact, I am positive they have. But many of the things that they are producing now are fine for how most people will use the vessels. For those of us that see a more distant horizon, make the changes or buy a boat equipped for the ride. … But you know what? People are buying them. If people are buying them as they are, how do we blame the mfg? Blame the buyer. Now about that roll bar they call an arch.... well, there is an exception to every rule!!
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Brian,
I do agree with you on most of what you say…except about cost. Fact is that an Oceanis 400 full equipped it will cost a lot less than 300K. These boats you are talking about, because they are mass produced and they are very basic sailing boats are not expensive. Some European brands (Dufour, Elan, Beneteau) that made those boats have also a parallel line of better sailing boats, boats with a more basic interior with a lot less space. These boats are a lot more expensive than the apparently more glamorous siblings.
It is expensive to make a good sailing boat, much more than making a boat that sails reasonably well and has a big interior.
Regarding prices and sizes of boats, I believe that Northshore still builds (if someone commands one) the Vancouver line. These kind of boats are the typical cruisers from the 70’s, strong, oceangoing, well made and with an interior adapted to live on the sea. They don’t sell them, because a 36ft would costs more to produce than a 43ft Oceanis.
Regards
Paulo