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Old 03-30-2010
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Pogo 10.50 / J109

Quote:
Originally Posted by nemier View Post
PCP,
I have always enjoyed your posts, and look forward to more of them.
..., I personally prefer the J109 (built in France?) to the Pogo 10.5. You want to discuss one against the other?
Thanks!


Marty is right. Those boats are very different. Th J109 is a great boat, but a boat designed to be competitive in IRC and to be raced with a crew. To go fast upwind The boat really needs the weight of a full crew on the side of the boat and to go really fast downwind it needs weight on the back of the boat (crew) and a very experienced hand at the wheel. It is not a forgiving boat (if sailed on the limit), but it is a boat that is a lot fun to sail, because it is a fast nervous and demanding boat.

Both boats are about the same lenght but the J107 weighs 4,944kg and has a 2.1M draft (deep Keel) with a 3.51M beam and the Pogo weighs 3600kg with a 3.9M beam and a 2.8M draft.
That means that not only the Pogo is a much more stable boat (heels a lot less) as it is also a much lighter boat.

How is that done? Easy, while the J109 design is constrained by the IRC rules (to be racing competitive) the Pogo is designed with pure efficiency in mind (smal crew sailing). It is the offspring of many years of open solo ocean boat’s development from the minis to the open 60’s. The Pogo is lighter because its huge stability comes not only from a much superior form stability (beam) but also because its keel is a lot deeper . To have( a smaller) stability, the J109 with na inferior beam and with a much shorter keel, has to rely on ballast, and lots of it. The boat carries 1769kg ballast, and therefore it is heavier.

Probably both boats will go upwind at the same speed, providing you have the crew sitting on the side of the J109, downwind probably the Pogo will go faster, but that is not the point. The point is that you don’t need a crew to go really fast on the Pogo and that, while on the J109 you need a crew and an experienced wheelman to go at 16k downind, on a Pogo…you can sleep and leave the job to the autopilot. The Pogo is a very forgiving boat that goes fast with little heeling. The J is a nervous boat, (not a forgiving boat if sailed fast) and a boat that is designed to heel a lot while sailing fast.

http://www.voilesetvoiliers.com/croisiere/feuilletage/307/feuilletage-croisiere-essai-course-croisiere-pogo-10-50-structures-finot-conq
Photos

So, if you want to go club racing around the cans with a full and experienced crew, the J109 is the boat. If you want to cross the Atlantic fast, solo or with a mate, then the Pogo is your boat. Both boats, in their own way are very good fast sailing boats and boats that give a lot of pleasure to sail.

Of course, with the Pogo you can also pull the keel up and go to the beach .

Another diference is that the interior space of the Pogo is much bigger (beam) and also its load capacity and that increases its autonomy.

I leave you with the words of the Designer, Jean Marie Finot, the” father” of the French racing designers and the man that more contributed to the development of the Open solo boats (and its safety) :

“Pogo 10.50 is an offshore-going boat,
able to find shelter in any cove. Designed with simplicity in mind, it is fast and doesn't heel much. It can accomodate a family or a gang of friends. The hull is very wide and stable, with a deep lifting keel. The twin rudders keep control in all conditions.
The balance of the boat is retained under heel, allowing large sails to be carried. Stability and sail area grant high speed in all conditions.
All the lines are led back to the large cockpit. A stowage aft is dedicated to the liferaft.”

The man is now aproaching 70, has designed hundreds of boats, and guess what his personal boat is? A Pogo 10.50, to have fun while cruising with his wife. My kind of sailor .

http://www.finot.com/ecrits/ecritsurg/finotfather.htm
Groupe Finot, Architectes navals

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-22-2013 at 10:28 AM.
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