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14-year-old Laura Dekker free to leave

9K views 72 replies 30 participants last post by  Minnewaska 
#1 ·
Laura Dekker is free to go! She is back under her parents supervision. And accoding to the court well prepared to set off. She has an extended sail-plan and followed an survival course. Her plan is to set off in 2 weeks. So at least she is much better prepared then last year. Good luck to Laura!
 
#3 · (Edited)
She gets sympathy points from me because the idea of the courts seizing custody of a minor child from his or her parents over something like this galls my Libertarian point of view.

If she wants to go, and she is prepared to go, and her legal guardian assents to it, then I wish her all the luck in the world. Just because someone harbors concern over her safety, that doesn't trump her parent(s)' right to let her do as she wishes, within the bounds of the law. The law doesn't say anything about "no going around the world until you're 18."

And if she gets into trouble out there, she has as much of a right as anyone else to expect a rescue.

So there. That'll get the pudding stirred up ...
 
#5 ·
As far as I am concerned the courts effectively kidnapped the child.

kidnap definition
kid·nap (kidnap′)
transitive verb kidnapped -·napped′ or kidnaped -·naped′, kidnapping -·nap′·ping or kidnaping -·nap′·ing
  1. to steal (a child)
  2. to seize and hold or carry off (a person) against that person's will, by force or fraud, often for ransom
I would look into suing the court.
 
#7 ·
I would look into suing the court.
I'm not sure how far they'd get on that one. Presumably, the same kind of wack-a-doodle judges that took custody of her in the first place would decide whether or not to hear the case.

But the point is well taken. Scares the poop out of me, because you always think of the courts as your last-line of defense to get some kind of relief when someone is messing with you, or worse with your kids. Where do you go when the courts are doing the harassing?
 
#10 ·
[sarcasm sub_set="mind.boggled"]

Awesome. I mean.. if she took a survival class, what could possibly go wrong? She's Certified(tm) now!

So why don't the rest of us have to get Certified? Doesn't anybody love me? Why won't the government kidnap me? Bawawawa.. nobody likes Tim :( :( :(

If only I were a 14 year old girl.. then it would matter what I do. Curse this wanger and all these birthday cards!

[/sarcasm]
 
#12 ·
Is the court going to rescue her if need be? I mean, since they stepped in, seems fair to me.
 
#13 ·
I hope that if she needs rescue then it happens near South Africa or Australia. I as a taxpayer in New Zealand don't want to contribute to her rescue.
 
#14 ·
It is not on Mahina's offshore list though.
The court ruling should have specified a more seaworthy vessel....
Well the Mahina offshore list is just one couple's list, and obviously cannot cover nowhere near all offshore capable boats. Jeanneau have built a lot of VERY seaworthy boats, including the different Gin Fizz models. The 38' Ketch version is designed by Michel Joubert (IIRC), and should be more than capable to take her around the world, provided it is properly prepared and maintained.
..I don't like the youngest stuff, but also not that she should be stopped by the government.
 
#16 ·
It's idiocy.
A 14 year old wants to get married, she's in love.
My neighbor's kid wants to quit school to focus on basketball.
Another wants to tattoo her face.
Let's let children decide everything. My brother's 4 year old wants her own house.
Picture this: Crew Wanted: sailing round the world, captain is a 14 year old girl. Who would even consider going? Really?
 
#18 ·
It's idiocy.
A 14 year old wants to get married, she's in love.
My neighbor's kid wants to quit school to focus on basketball.
Another wants to tattoo her face.
Let's let children decide everything. My brother's 4 year old wants her own house.
Oh, come off it. Please tell me you understand that there's a difference between getting a tattoo or getting married and going on a sailing trip. Even a very long sailing trip.

It's idiocy.
Picture this: Crew Wanted: sailing round the world, captain is a 14 year old girl. Who would even consider going? Really?
But she's not asking for crew, so what was the point in that jab?
 
#17 ·
I tip my hat to the girl and her family, as long as they understand the risks and apparently they do then have at it. I hate these people that say you have to be blah blah age before living, if I went by those rules I wouldn't have done near what I have in my life so far. Do I think the parents should pay at least pay for the rescue so that taxpayers don't have to but other than that I say best of luck and I hope she has a safe trip.
 
#19 ·
At 14 years old we're not rewarding her sailing ability or navigation skills, just the fact she might be a young, lucky, girl. And what happens if she's not lucky?

This is stupid.

Crew Wanted: sailing round the world, captain is a 14 year old girl. Who would even consider going? Really?
This is a big reason why she's doing it by herself, no one with a clear mind would be dumb enough to sign up for this voyage.
 
#21 ·
Ok, then tell me: what's the age limit? I'm 27, and she has far more experience than I do. It's okay if I wanted to try it, I assume. I could go through the same steps as her, survival training, outfitting a boat, all the experience leading up to this, and nobody would have anything to say about it.

Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinions on this, but as far as I can tell, the only "idiocy" going on here is the vitriolic rhetoric of the detractors.
 
#27 ·
I could go through the same steps as her, survival training, outfitting a boat, all the experience leading up to this, and nobody would have anything to say about it.
I doubt it. I am certain that I have read many threads here lambasting adults who go to sea with what is alleged by the lambasters to be insufficient experience.

I don't think age is particularly useful as a metric here. I know several kids that age who are smarter and more levelheaded than most of the adults I interact with in a week. It just comes down to the individual, as it always does and as it always should.
 
#23 ·
I personally feel that 14 years old is a little young for such an endeavor and I don’t understand this desire to be the youngest to do anything, but this is for her and her parents to decide and theirs alone. Nobody especially a court system should have any say in how this girl should live her life.
 
#35 ·
The tradition of maritime rescue is not a standalone-promise. It's a contract. Its an agreement between sailors and rescuers, and _both_ parties have an obligation to meet.

The rescuer will be available, hell or high water, and will put themselves in harms way, even loose their lives from time to time, and will do so at a moments notice.

The sailor, as a result, must respect that commitment. The sailor is obligated to honor the rescuer by doing everything in their power to put themselves in a position to not need rescuing. This means proper seamanship. This means risk management. This means recognizing that, while everything we do involves an opportunity for danger, there are ways to mitigate much of that.

A sailor is free to swing their fist only until their fist is within range of a rescuers nose. At that point, a sailor must recognize that they are putting more than themselves at inappropriate risk.

The bottom line is that it is one thing to know it's possible for bad things to happen. It's another thing entirely when my plan for dealing with bad things is to call for help because I don't know what else to do.
 
#40 ·
The tradition of maritime rescue is not a standalone-promise. It's a contract. Its an agreement between sailors and rescuers, and _both_ parties have an obligation to meet.

The rescuer will be available, hell or high water, and will put themselves in harms way, even loose their lives from time to time, and will do so at a moments notice.

The sailor, as a result, must respect that commitment. The sailor is obligated to honor the rescuer by doing everything in their power to put themselves in a position to not need rescuing. This means proper seamanship. This means risk management. This means recognizing that, while everything we do involves an opportunity for danger, there are ways to mitigate much of that.

A sailor is free to swing their fist only until their fist is within range of a rescuers nose. At that point, a sailor must recognize that they are putting more than themselves at inappropriate risk.

The bottom line is that it is one thing to know it's possible for bad things to happen. It's another thing entirely when my plan for dealing with bad things is to call for help because I don't know what else to do.
I think that's very well stated. Nicely played dude.
 
#44 ·
There is no age limit to do this, just a level of sailing experience and maturity that I don't feel a 14 year old has. I also don't think a 14 year old has the physical or mental strength to complete a voyage like this alone. We don't allow 14 year olds to drive, drink, or vote b/c we don't feel they are mature enough to handle the responsibility. How is it that you can feel ok about sending a teenager out into the open ocean single handed?

On another note, won't there be a flotilla of boats around her? So how is this the "youngest" around the world alone anyway?
 
#45 ·
There is no age limit to do this, just a level of sailing experience and maturity that I don't feel a 14 year old has. I also don't think a 14 year old has the physical or mental strength to complete a voyage like this alone. We don't allow 14 year olds to drive, drink, or vote b/c we don't feel they are mature enough to handle the responsibility. How is it that you can feel ok about sending a teenager out into the open ocean single handed?

On another note, won't there be a flotilla of boats around her? So how is this the "youngest" around the world alone anyway?
The point is that it has to be a case-by-case determination. I don't know her, so I'm not going to make a blanket condemnation of anyone undertaking a voyage like this on the basis of age alone. There are 30-year-olds that I know who shouldn't be allowed to drive, certainly shouldn't be allowed to drink, and have no business within 500 yards of a voting booth. But those activities are written into the law, presumably because they have an impact on other people (less so for the drinking, but certainly for the voting and the driving). There's no law that specifies an age limit for a non-commercial recreational sailboat in International waters. So anyone is welcome to try. It's up to that person, or his or her legal guardian if under the age of 18, whether or not to do it. It's not up to you, it's not up to me.

She may be the most capable sailor you ever met. She might be an adequate but unexemplary sailor. She might be a total amateur. I don't know, and you don't know. That's why it's so mind-numbingly irritating to hear all of this talk of how "idiotic" and how "stupid" it is for her to try. Just because you weren't up to it at 14, or because your kid isn't up to it at 14, that doesn't mean that she isn't up to it at 14.

And I doubt there will be a flotilla around her. She's also going with stops, port-to-port, through Panama, unlike Sunderland, so she isn't likely to be in the same sort of isolated, remote waters. She'll have plenty of company along the way.
 
#46 ·
"thousands of traffic accidents caused by reckless teenagers, or to mount a rescue operation for someone who runs into trouble sailing around the world? And here's the news: you're paying for both."

I dont know. My wife got carted off in an ambulance after a traffic accident last year and they sent us a bill for $1500. Seems like we were the only ones paying for that rescue.
 
#48 ·
Do you sometimes yearn for the days when this would not have been news? I am sure that Laura does and she is too young to remember the days.

Now, everything becomes news, and "experts" on TV, radio, and internet boards share their opinion on why it is wrong. They also "share" why it should not be done, how the offender should be punished, and oh yeah " This is how it should be done!".

People used to do these type of things and nobody knew. Some made it and were better for the experience. Some died...and we never knew. Quit being holier then thou and go sailing for God's sake!
 
#51 ·
Must ... resist ... posting ...

Ughh...

We have all been over this several times before. Laura Dekker, Abby Sunderland, Jessica Watson, Zak Sunderland, etc.

THE main issue here is that the "youngest sailor circumnavigations" are being undertaken as a shortcut to Fame and Fortune. ALL of them have publicity and sponsorship machines pushing them on.

IIRC, in Laura's case, there is the complicating factor that her mother did not approve of this undertaking either. Again, IIRC, the court initially intervened when the mother raised the issue. After being prevented from leaving, she somehow managed to run away to St Martin/Marteen (all by herself).

As tomandchris pointed out, if there were no reality show hype, no "team Laura Dekker," no BS, and she simply set out and sailed, I would have no issue. However all of the hype, commercialization, and all that that entails, before she has done the trip, make the inevitable SAR seem like a subsidy to this commercial undertaking.
 
#52 ·
Must ... resist ... posting ...

Ughh...

Obviously, I'm as much a debate whore as you are herli.

Look, you're missing the point. Since each of these babes is a unique case in terms of life experience and maturity - we have to have this same debate every time one of them finishes their Gerber applesauce and casts off their lines.

Surely you can see that.
 
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