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westsail 32

34K views 75 replies 30 participants last post by  SloopJonB 
#1 ·
Thought on westsail 32 would be appreciated. I like the sailing charecteristics and the offshore work capabilities it has. The boat will be used for full time ocean voyaging. Thought and comments will be much appreciated. Thank you
 
#51 · (Edited)
I think in any discussion about boat speed the PHRF rating is a good tool. It's not perfect but it's better than guessing. I got the 218 for the W32 out of the NCPHRF Base Rating Report and I really doubt it is based on round the buoy race results for W32's. Whens the last time you saw a W32 campaigned in a round the buoys series? That's the only rating I cited. I did not take into account the "enjoyment" factor. I used the NCPHRF rating because their report lists the boats by type. It was convenient.

If you take the time to read my previous posts in this thread they were never about boat speed. I'm a Westsail fan and have defended them for years and recommended them to many potential buyers. I'm not sure anyone buys a W32 looking for boat speed.
There are a lot of ways to measure the enjoyment of a boat but I can't think of any that are objective and that's just fine. The love of sailing is anything but objective.

But if someone turns the subject to BS (call it "boat speed") then a little accuracy can't hurt. Reaching speeds are fun but upwind VMG's are also important.

As for "does it matter if it takes 14 or 16 days" I would think that would depend upon the weather for those extra two days and how the food was holding out.

I should know better than to get into a Westsail debate.
I think I'll go over to the hi-fi sites and get involved with a tubes vs transistors argument. I like tubes but I cover both bases by having two systems, one tube powered and one solid state. Want to argue about it? There are reams of numbers proving that SS is better than tubes but in the end the preference is subjective, i.e. individual ears, and the numbers only tell a small part of the audio story.

Kind of like boats.
 
#57 ·
I think I'll go over to the hi-fi sites and get involved with a tubes vs transistors argument. I like tubes but I cover both bases by having two systems, one tube powered and one solid state. Want to argue about it? There are reams of numbers proving that SS is better than tubes but in the end the preference is subjective, i.e. individual ears, and the numbers only tell a small part of the audio story. Kind of like boats.
Bob, your tubes comment reminded me of my sister - she was one of those people who took a perverse pride in some Luddite tendencies. When CD's first came out I was playing one for her and she started going on about how she preferred the "warmer" sound of vinyl records. I went to my amp and switched on the 12 Khz filter and, voila - her preferred warmer sound. I then explained to her about how the frequencies above that were destroyed by the first playing of a vinyl record.

I'm just a little too young to have experienced much tube stereo but somehow I think there is a similar principle happening there. However, you're the musician and I'm not so........

Also, since I can't hear past 10 Khz any more, it's all a bit moot to me now. :D
 
#52 ·
And this is why revisiting old threads IS a good thing. I, for one, am lovin' this.
 
#56 ·
"Don't you wish stupidity was painful".
Where can I get one of those. :D Actually, it can be pretty painful, as anyone who has worked much on boats can attest.
 
#58 ·
Boats are like mates and thankfully we have more than a few to choose from. Your mate would not be right for me any more than mine for you. Having owned my westsail 32 for 18 years I can truthfully say that she is the right boat for me. She gets in a groove on ocean passages that can not be described but has to be felt. I'm almost dissapointed at the end of a passage because I have to stop for food and water. My boat is loaded heavy for cruising but still manage 140 mile plus days not racing just cruising while reading a book or baking bread. In 1997 I ran from hurricane Guillermo under storm staysail only for two days in 25 foot seas with the tiller lashed midship thinking I was glad not to be in a lesser boat. I hope you find that perfect boat for you because they are rare indeed. Lee W32 Patience
 
#59 ·
JohnB:
I listen to tubes in the office and I love them. I listen to solid state downstairs and I love that too but I most certainly prefer the sound of a well pressed lp to a cd. I'm not after "warmth". I'm after transients and dynamics. I want to hear the music between the dots.

I have a very nice cd player upstairs and an even more nice one downstairs (NAIM) but my ears like vinyl. I do not have a turntable in the office. I can't be jumping up and down flipping over record while I am working.

The tubes vs ss vs digital vs analog war rages on. It's all fun for me.

And it's so much fun hunting thru used record stores.
 
#61 ·
Well. I'm glad some of the myths concerning the W32 have been laid to rest.
I think Bob said it best all those years ago

'In my youth I argued long and hard against the Westsail
type in order to attract attention to my own 'performance
cruiser' goal. I felt certain that the Westsail
suocess...was created by a myth ...... I remember one sunny day
reaching back from Catalina in a well known and performance
respected 40-footer. we slowly overtook a W32. we had about
20 knots apparent and the apparent wind was at about 65
degrees. This Westsail had a big drifter reacher up and it
was really moving along. It took us a painful long time to
pull clear ahead. I earned a new respect for the that, little
Westsail. `
I changed the bolded word.
 
#65 · (Edited)
NorCal YRA uses the straight regression formula for calculating PHRF. Very few boats outside the custom builds have highly modified numbers. I usually don’t see boats more than six seconds off of their calculated number. In my experience, the speed potential for “high number” boats drops off significantly when the winds lighten – much more so than the lower PHRF numbered boats. I think the issue is one of weight (other than ballast). Which I think is also the root cause of the complaint “my boat doesn’t sail to its number”.
 
#66 · (Edited)
George:
I think you are correct. And that light auir advantage of the lighter boat is reflected in the lower, i.e. faster rating.

Over the last 35 years I have been consistantly surprised at just how close most initial, "provisional" PHRF ratings are to the actual performance of the boat. The data bank is huge now.

Please check out my new blog entry at:
Yacht Design According to Perry

or:
http://perryboat.sail2live.com
 
#67 ·
Thanks for the input. I don't race and my boats aren't rated. But I observe that the modern fin keel boats that pass my heavy full keel ketch in light air struggle to keep up in a fresh breeze. They are also getting tossed about then while I'm making a sandwich with the helm lashed. I also enjoy quick lively boats, my first keelboat was 20', one ton, lots of fun. But the ketch is way more comfortable.
 
#69 ·
Money:
I have two bass amps. One, John Eden, has tube pre amp and the other, my back up, a big Peavy lets you chose between either ss or tube pre amp stage. The Eden is so good I never use the Peavy but my son preferred it. For many years I used a big ol' Ampeg bass amp, SV, with all tubes. That amp still sells 40 years later.

For my office hi-fi amp I bought some exotic, American, "new old stock" tubes to replace the Russian tubes, Sovtec, that came stock. Not sure the Russian tubes were not superior but I left the fancy tubes in anyway. I should switch back some day and see if I can still hear a difference. It's all fun.
 
#70 ·
@Bob
I'm a huge "Eden" mark, but never owned one. As to the Ampeg, however, it was my #1 back in my bass playing days. I still, however, use my Peavey tuber every week with my LP. That thing is soooo hard to kill. As for the great "tube debate", I wouldn't know a Sovtek from a 60's RCA if I was staring at both! All I know is if they are glowing red or not. Even that is up for debate in some circles, lol.
 
#71 ·
Such a simple question, such a circuitous discussion. So much talk of speed, but there's so much more to a boat. Having lived with - and on - a Westsail 32 for 18+ years, here are my thoughts. Let's get the speed issue out of the way first. When you've got a lot of drag, as any heavy, full-keel boat does, you've just got to overcome that, which means piling on the canvas when the wind is down. With only the working sails, the 32 is indeed a slug except when going to windward in 20 knots. I carry two Genoas - "large" and "larger", and am very happy with both upwind and downwind performance in light air. I may not pass the faster boats, but it's surprising how often I can keep up with them. And yes, she points as well as most other cruisers, a few degrees off of the sport boats. The downside is that it's easy to get overpowered upwind with that much sail, so it's either change sails or go with just the staysail and main, which is comfortable but does not perform very well. Many of the 32s I see are fitted with sails built for durability and not performance (ie: cruisers), and are carrying fixed 3-blade props, especially those who are not out cruising.

I saw a few comments on handling those big sails. Other than getting the Genny around the forestay without hanging up (it's all in the timing), I don't find that a problem, and I'm still on human-tailed winches. What I don't find mentioned is the load on the tiller. The 32 is NOT a well-balanced boat, and that is NOT a balanced rudder. I like the feel and responsiveness of the tiller, but can't imagine not having that strong Monitor vane doing the work. And yes, she is initially more tender than you'd expect, but once she settles in she's very stable. I don't find that she rolls more than any other boat in her class, and while she hobby-horses quite a bit at anchor, it's not a problem under way. She's happiest when anchored a few degrees off-center with a bridle - takes care of the wandering and the pitching.

The comments about the lack of coamings are valid. Spray will work it's way along the windward deck and dribble across the bridge deck; also the person sitting to leeward will occasionally get surprised by a boarding wave. Overall, though, she is not a wet boat, and does not generate a lot of spray under normal conditions. I have seen boats with coamings added, but that infringes on the already minuscule cockpit. I once delivered one with boards fitted between the bulwark and the aft edge of the cabin, and that was effective. And that gets to the most unique characteristics of the Westsail, in my opinion - the cockpit and the cabin top. The cockpit is really tiny. On the one hand, it makes for a larger cabin, is perfect for single-handing, and is fine for one or two people; but if you're planning on having a few guests aboard, or stretching out yourself, count on using the deck area. Fortunately, the deck is the most comfortable I've found yet, other than a flush deck. It's flat, fairly free of hardware, and well protected by the bulwarks - perfect for a snooze or a working platform. I look at the more modern boats and it seems you have to spend all your time in the cockpit, and forget about going forward in bad weather. I might add that I am so used to being able to reach everything in the cockpit while handing the tiller, that when I am in some other boats I feel that they were designed strictly for two or more people. Who's idea was it to put that giant wheel between the helmsman and the winches?

The comments about Westsails being lost on the Puddle Jump is way off base. I've not heard the stories, but am fairly sure those boats didn't just break up! On another note, you can lay these things down on a beach, and as long as there are no big waves, she'll come back up without the deck even getting wet. (Don't ask how I know. . .) Having seen other owners deal with difficult projects - tearing tanks out through the keel or by removing the galley, for instance - I can also appreciate the accessibility of traditionally-built boats, and shudder at the thought of a one-piece fiberglass liner.

But the bottom line is that, if you're going cruising, the Westsail will deliver a safe, durable, & comfortable ride, carry plenty of provisions, and give very little fuss, as long as there are only two or three of you. And for less cash than anything else in it's class (my first choice was a Perry 37-40, but they were 2-4 times the price at the time). If you're paying for a slip and plan on socialising a lot, less bowsprit and more accommodations might work out better.
 
#73 ·
On Maka Le'a, our W32, we have a hefty chunk of teak where the cockpit meets the cabin top corner. This block, about 2 inches thick and 5 inches high keeps the water from running into the cockpit. Also, because we have a teak cockpit and fiberglass decks, the cockpit is a bit higher than the side decks. With this in mind, there is a whole cut into the teak block which allows water to flow out but, because it is raised from the level of the side deck, prevents a good sum of water,from flowing in. It's a very simple and elegant fix for a problem that so many complain about.
Erika
Maka Le'a
W32 #55
 
#74 · (Edited)
#76 ·
If we had adequate wind here I'd seriously consider one - they do tug at the heartstrings. :cool: I'm sure one could do something re: cockpit comfort.
 
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