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Interesting Sailboats

3M views 7K replies 205 participants last post by  tdw 
#1 · (Edited)
Sirius 32, Sirius 35

THE OBJECT OF THIS THREAD:

Interesting sailboats in production and available on the new boat market (only boats with modern designs, meaning that the boats still in production but made with old designs are out). Recent designs out of production are also admissible.

Modern boat designs and modern one off, if interesting.

Classical boats and traditional boats.

Small cruisers (less than 35ft)

Seezunge 27ft: PG1-PT9

Hanse 325: PG19-PT185;

Presto 30 : 33-326; 33-327; 34-331; 34-333; 55-543; 55-544;

Tess Yachts: 37-366; 38-373;

Tess 28 Magnum: 37-369; 38-371;

Delphia 28: 38-373;

Vancouver 27/28 : 42-412; 72-717;

Cruisers between 35ft and 49ft


Catalina 355 : 31-306;

RM sailboats: PG5-PT41; 5-42

RM1050: PG5-PT46; 5-47; 5-48;

RM 1060: PG8-PT77; 8-78; 8-79; 8-80; 9-81; 30-295; 40-400; 79-786;

RM 1200: PG9-PT84; 9-85; 19-184; 20-191; 20-192; 41-404; 42-414; 42-418; 43-425; 43-426; 69-688;

RM 1350: PG9-PT82; 55-549; 95-943;

Morris Yachts: PG7-PT61

Bavaria 36: PG19-PT188; 19-190; 20-196;

Bavaria 40: PG10-PT95; 28-278; 29-281; 29-282; 29-283; 29-286; 32-316; 36-356; 51-502; 51-507; 52-518; 53-527; 53-532;

Bavaria 40s: 69-685; 78-775;

Bavaria 45: PG10-PT96; 19-190;

Rustler Yachts: PG11-PT104;

Jeanneau 409: PG11-PT103: 11-106; 30-298; 30-299; 36-356; 51-502; 51-504; 51-505; 51-509; 52-513; 52-514; 52-515; 52-516; 53-527; 54-532; 57-564; 57-570; 58-571; 58-580; 59-581; 59-583; 59-585; 62-614; 74-739; 91-906;

Jeanneau 439: 40-396; 40-397; 59-584; 59-585; 96-956;

Hanse Yachts: 16-154; 16-156; 16-158;

Hanse 400: 81-804;

Bluewater cruising yachts: 21-206

Beneteau Oceanis 37 : 31-306; 31-308; 31-309; 32-314; 55-541;

XC 38: 36-356; 96-954;

Diva 38: 39-386;

Diva 35: 40-391;

Dufour 405: 62-614;

Defline 43: 63-622

Walkabout 43: 93-923; 93-925; 93-927;

Small performance cruisers (less than 35ft)


Performance 32ft test: 29-87;

Sun Fast 3200: PG4-PT33; 4-34; 4-36; 30-293;

Elan 210: 70-691; 70-696; 78-779; 79-781;

Elan 310: PC7-PT64; 7-69; 8-71; 36-356; 41-408;

Quest 33: PG7-PT62

Olea 32: 25-243; 25-245;

First 27.7: 38-373; 38-380; 39-382;

First 30: 30-295; 39-356; 41-408; 55-545; 55-546;

Comet 26: 34-340; 35-345; 35-350; 36-353;

Pacer 30: 36-357;

Django 7.7: 40-399;

Vivace/Evosion 34: 45-442; 45-446; 45-445; 45-446; 45-447; 45-448; 45-449; 45-450; 46-458; 46-460;

Finn Flyer 34: 46-451; 46-453; 60-593;

Salona 34: 46-457;

Heol 7.4: 63-621; 63-622;

Azuree 33: 87-867; 91-902; 91-904;

JPK 10.10: 88-877 ; 88-880; 89-883;

Performance cruisers (between 35ft and 49ft)

Pogo 10.50: PG2-PT20; 3-27; 3-28; 3-30; 4-35; 5-50; 6-51; 6-52; 6-60; 11-101; 11-107; 11-110; 43-425; 44-440; 87-861; 87-867;

Pogo 12.50: PG13-PT125; 20-198; 20-199; 22-214; 27-264; 27-265; 27-269; 32-317; 32-319; 43-425; 43-426; 43-428; 44-432; 44-437; 44-439; 55-546; 55-547; 82-812; 84-831; 87-870;

Este 40: 89-890; 90-893; 90-899;

A35: PG5-PT42; 5-44; 66-660;

A40RC: 92-914;

Hammerhead 35: 64-645

Opium 39: PG5-PT42; 9-85; 9-89; 13-125; 22-220; 22-221; 43-426; 55-547; 86-857;

Aerodyne 35: PG7-PT62

Elan 350: PG7-PT64; 13-24; 13-126; 13-127; 13-128; 14-132; 18-178; 26-255; 36-356; 40-398; 41-405; 57-564; 59-589; 60-591; 72-711; 73-724; 74-738;

Elan 380: 23-223; 25-249; 26-256; 40-398; 59-589; 97-962;

Elan 410: 32-316; 79-784;

JPK 110: PG9-PT85; 10-91

Olea 44: PG10-PT100; 27-268;

Olea Yachts: 25-247;

Dufour 40e: Pg13-Pt125; 32-316; 55-547; 56-558; 56-559; 57-561; 57-562; 57-563; 59-586; 59-588,

Salona 37: 36-359; 41-406;

Salona 41: PG15-PT141; 15-145; 32-316; 36-356; 40-398; 54-538; 57-569; 78-778; 80-796; 80-798; 97-965;

Salona 42: PG15-PT145; 36-359; 40-398; 93-929; 94-932;

Cigale 16: PG15-PT148; 16-152; 17-161; 55-549; 63-625;

Cigale 14: PG17-PT163; 55-549;

Santa Cruz 43: PG17-PT169

Sydney Yachts: PG18-PT171; 18-175;

Sydney GTS 37: 43-423;

Sydney GTS 43: PG18-PT173;

Winner 12.20: PG20-193;

First 40: 31-304; 32-313; 32-316; 35-344; 36-354; 55-546; 55-547;

First 35: 36-356

Dehler 41: 30-296;

Dehler 44: 79-785;

Dehler 45: 36-356; 79-785;

Luffe 40.04: 30-300; 31-301; 31-303;

XP 38: 56-533; 56-544; 56-555; 67-622;

XP 44: 33-325;

Pacer 430: 36-357;

Pacer 376: 36-357; 66-652; 69-683;

Faurby 424: 36-360; 37-361; 37-363; 37-365;

Comfortina 39: 40-395;

J 133: 43-426; 63-620

J 111: 100-993;

Maxi 11: 99-982;

Arcona yachts: 46-456;

Arcona 410: 47-467; 47-468; 47-469; 48-471;

Arcona 430: 48-472;

Arcona 460: 50-495

Finngulf yachts: 46-456;

Varianta 44: 60-594; 60-595; 60-596; 60-597; 60-598; 64-639;

Imagine 53: 63-628;

Zou 40.2: 63-620

Ker 39: 68-676;

Finn-Flyer 42: 77-762;

Azuree 40: 85-842;

Loft 40: 85-848; 85-852;

Vivace 35: 90-895;

Sailing boats over 49ft

Zeydon 60 : PG 12-119;

JP 54: PG18-PT172;

Salona 60: 70-695;

Stadships: PG20-PT193; 20-195;

Pogo 50: 32-318; 32-319;

X-50: 54-537;

Murtic 52: 54-537;

Decksaloons and pilot house sailing boats

Sirius 32: PG1-PT1

Sirius 35: PG1-PT1; 1-10; 2-18; 50-491; 50-492; 60-559; 60-599;

Sirius 31: PG1-PT5; 2-17; 36-356;

Regina 35: 48-478;

Regina 40: PG11-PT104; 49-481; 49-483;

Southerly yachts: PG11-PT104;

Luffe 43DS: PG12-PT111; 12-115; 50-494;

Noordkaper 40: PG14-pt139;

Noordkaper yachts: PG16-PT155

Nordship 36: 30-297; 49-482;

Nordship 38: 49-482; 49-490;

Paulo's pilot house I: 38-376; 39-381; 39-383; 39-384;

Paulo's pilot house II: 69-682

Lyman & Morse 45: 38-379;

CR 38DS: 48-477; 48-478;

CR 40DS: 48-476; 48-478; 48-479; 50-494; 50-496; 50-497; 50-498;

Arcona 40DS: 50-494;

Racers

Figaro 2:pG4-PT36; 4-37; 5-42; 6-52; 6-53; 6-55; 6-56

VOR 70: PG16-PT160; 17-187

Farr 400: 67-661

Soto 40: 96-952;

Lifting keel/centerboarder

Southerly yachts: PG11-PT104;

Allures 45: PG10-PT93; 100-996;

Allures yachts: 25-248;

OVNI 425: 23-228;

OVNI 395 : 68-679; 69-690;

J 108: 67-661

Atlantic 43: 68-67

Boreal 44: 97-970; 98-974;

Multihulls till 34ft

Several Trimarans: 28-273;

Multihulls with 34ft and over

Dragonfly yachts: 26-257;

Dragonfly 35: 26-258; 27-261; 27-262;

Dragonfly 1200: 56-551;

Corsair 37: 28-276;

Farrier 39: 28-277;

Challenge 37: 28-278

Hammerhead 34: 29-385;

Hammerhead 54: 29-288; 30-292;

Trimax 10.80: 29-285;

Sig 45: 54-534; 54-539; 54-540;

Gunboat: 56-551

Fusion: 56-551;

Outremer: 56-551;

Tournier: 56-511;

Classical and Traditional boats

Jclass boats: 54-537;

Tofinou 12: 71-703;

Folck boat: 73-727;

Puffin Yachts: PG14-PT135; 14-138; 16-155;

Bestwind 50: PG12-PT116; 14-123;

Bestevaer 53: PG12-PT116;

Bestevaer yachts: PG16-PT155

Cape George 36: 41-410; 42-412;

Marieholm 33 : 42-412;

This list is not actualized. Please use the advanced search engine of the thread with the name of the model and builder. It works, most of the time.

(actualized till PG100) and it will be no more because that gives a lot of work (500 pages now).

Instead I am actualizing the titles and with the right title the thread search engine (not the one on the top of the page bit the one much below that says search thread) on its advanced option works quite well.

Hello,

Melrna posts on Miami Boat show and the comments of Smackdady about the interest of that thread lead me to think that perhaps I could share more information about sailboats I know and find interesting.

I am interested in boat design (interior and sailing performance) and I go each year at least to one of the main European Boat shows and that means basically Dusseldorf, Paris or Hamburg. On these shows you have the opportunity not only to visit the boats of the main and medium size builders but you have also the opportunity to visit the boats of small and sometime family shipyards.

Normally they build very good sailboats and sometimes they have been doing that for decades. The boats are hugely appreciated by their faithful customers but because they don't advertise their boats and there are very few on the used boat market, they pass unnoticed by the majority of the sail community.

The visit to these boats is a very rewarding experience because they are made with passion by true boat lovers and because when you talk to the guy that is on the boat, you are not talking with a dealer, that many times doesn't know much about boats, but with the builder, or the designer.

Even if you are not a buyer they will have real pleasure in talking with someone that really appreciates and understands their work. Those guys really believe in what they are doing and they do it the best way they can, no matter the cost. In a word, they are in love with what they are doing.
Of course, these boats have to be expensive.

This thread will be mainly about these boats, as a way of letting you know about these gems. Let's see if you are interested. I will not post much. If you want to know more you have just to participate and make questions.

The first one it will be the "Sirius". I have had the pleasure to visit several times their boats and to talk with the builders (father and son).

These boats have the best interiors you can find, or at least that I have seen. Not only the quality, but the design and ergonomy are fantastic. You really won't believe you are in a 32ft boat. Just incredible and amazing; Have a look at it:

Sirius-Werft Plön | Forecabin | 32 DS for 2 forecabin
Sirius-Werft Plön | Owner´s cabin | 32 DS 4-berth comfort owner´s cabin
Sirius-Werft Plön | Workshop | 32 DS for 2 workshop

Now that the son is in charge they have modernized the outside look of the new boats, they look fantastic not only inside but also outside. The boats sail well and they have clients as far as Japan.

Sirius-Werft Plön | Versions of decks house | You have the choice

Another interesting point is the way they develop new boats. They work with the clients to collect suggestions on the shape and design of the boats. A truly interesting affair, between passionate clients and passionate builders.

Sirius-Werft Plön | 35 DS | Philosophy

Take a good look at their interesting site and if you find the boat interesting, please let me know, I can add some information.

Sirius-Werft Plön | english | Welcome at website of Sirius-Werft Plön

Regards

Paulo
 
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#3,589 ·
And the Italians beat the Record New York - S. Francisco

Solidini team and the Maserati Vor70 are the owners of the Record for monohulls with just some minutes more than 47 days.



The previous record was an old one with an Open 60 and it was French.

Don't you think it is the time the Americans to have a try at it?:rolleyes:

They have a faster and bigger boat (Rambler) why let the Europeans stay with traditional American records? Don't Americans care about that?

This was the record hold by Flying Cloud for more than 100 years (89 days).

 
#3,591 · (Edited)
New boat, new sailor, that's what I would like!!!

You know one of the good things about brand new sailing boats is that they are not only beautiful (if well chosen) but also they don't need maintenace for some years.

Young sailors are like that too. Not me:rolleyes:. I write this on an hospital bed after having a surgery to my nose. Some days before it was to my eye and last year to my two years. Jesus I hate this "maintenance" work for to be in shape for the sailing season:D

I guess that it will take some time for science to be able to provide me a brand new 21 year's old Paulo clone, ready for downloading my memories to it. Well, my memories in a brand new brain and body, as Smack says, would ROCK:D

Everything is alright and I am in the same room with my 21 year old son that was operated, just before me, to the same thing. In his case it had not do do with age but with a "manufacture defect". Well maybe mine problem was genetic too but it only started to bother me on the last years.

So guys, this is entirely your thread for some time, cause I will only post occasionally on the next days. Right know I fell like I had got a huge punch on the nose and only in three days I will be more comfortable.... so till then, have fun;) and provide me with some good posts:)

Cheers to all,

Paulo
 
#3,593 ·
Re: New boat, new sailor, that's what I would like!!!

You know one of the good things about brand new sailing boats is that they are not only beautiful (if well chosen) but also they don't need maintenace for some years.

Young sailors are like that too. Not me:rolleyes:. I write this on an hospital bed after having a surgery to my nose. Some days before it was to my eye and last year to my two years. Jesus I hate this "maintenance" work for to be in shape for the sailing season:D

I guess that it will take some time for science to be able to provide me a brand new 21 year's old Paulo clone, ready for downloading my memories to it. Well, my memories in a brand new brain and body, as Smack says, would ROCK:D

Everything is alright and I am in the same room with my 21 year old son that was operated, just before me, to the same thing. In his case it had not do do with age but with a "manufacture defect". Well maybe mine problem was genetic too but it only started to bother me on the last years.

So guys, this is entirely your thread for some time, cause I will only post occasionally on the next days. Right know I fell like I had got a huge punch on the nose and only in three days I will be more comfortable.... so till then, have fun;) and provide me with some good posts:)

Cheers to all,

Paulo
Jeez, Paulo... sounds painful. Best wishes for quick recovery and out of the hospital.. for you and your son. Take care...
 
#3,594 ·
Hey Paulo, Ya it sucks to get old, get better soon. I'm always sore and had to have some surgery this year. Today I hiked 12.5 miles up a mountain trail to a water fall, trying to get in shape for our next adventure in June. All I could think of was how sore I was but then I started remembering back in the early 1970's sailing in French Polynesia and all those beautiful Island girls with beautiful brown skin and some French blond hair streaked into long dark hair. Where have those days gone I don't know but hopefully you like me have a good memory, one good enough to still keep us with a smile on our faces.:D

Best to you

Steve and Tracy
 
#3,597 ·
Paulo, "you are getting better all the time". At least for all of us following this thread and your posts. I remember in some other forums someone called you "young man" because you sound so in all your posts and attitudes. No one would guess your age if did not bother to check your profile. Anyway, maintenance is an issue with old boats and bodies. I hate it in both aspects but I have to get used to it (I have just filled in birth date in my profile). Sailing, however, like drinking good wine, is appreciated better when you are at certain age (I make this comparison because I know you have a taste for fine wines). Just think that this nose operation may improve your scents for fine wines' appreciation.

In order to keep the topic on I would like to post a link on another Scandinavian built boat - Scanner 391, which is not a new one.
Scan Yacht
http://www.scanyacht.se/Download/391.pdf

I would leave Paulo, when he cans and has the time and wish to post his comments and much more...

By the way, Paulo, I still expect your firsthand impressions on the Sly 38, one of the contenders for best performance cruiser at the Dusseldorf show if you think it's worth a post.

Regards
Rumen
 
#3,599 · (Edited)
Sly 38

....

By the way, Paulo, I still expect your firsthand impressions on the Sly 38, one of the contenders for best performance cruiser at the Dusseldorf show if you think it's worth a post.

Regards
Rumen
Yes, I was surprised with the boat of the year award. I was expecting that in the category of Performance boat the winner to be the Grand Soleil 39 or the Sly 38.

Of course I have no doubt that the fact that the Dufout 36p won means that the boat is better than what I initially thought it was and that handicap in what concerns being heavy is somewhat compensated by an excellent balance and a very good feeling at the wheel. I guess the boat had to perform very well to beat the other two but I was also very curious about the main shortcomings they had found on the other boats.

About the Grand Soleil 39, that has a better quality and better cruising interior, compared with the Dufour, I knew already what had happened: They delivered for testing a boat with a mast so badly tuned that they were afraid top test sail the boat with 40k of wind. I guess that is pretty unacceptable and don't say nothing good about the dealer that delivered the boat for testing.

Regarding the Sly I had not heard anything, neither read any test sail. Only saw the boat and found it beautiful with excellent technical characteristics. If there was something that I didn't like it was the transom shape/transition, that looked a bit sharp to me and most of all the interior design. It seemed not inspired and not particularly attractive. But off course I was in a huge disadvantage regarding saying something about the Sly 38. Regarding the other two boats I had not only been aboard as I had read several test sails about each and regarding the Sly 38 I had only saw the photos and the dimensions.











Length overall 11.50 m
Waterline length 10.25 m
Beam 3.70 m
Displacement 2.30 m
Draught 5.500 kg
Ballast 2.125 kg
Surface area of mainsail + jib 106% 85 m2
Mainsail 49 m2
JIB 106% 36 m2
Spinnaker 110 m2
Engine 30 Hp
Diesel tank 120 Lt
Water tank 280 Lt

On a French magazine I read what was the generalized criticism about the boat by most testers: The interior. They talk about an interior that was made to be disassembled for racing (they say they didn't like the "Mecano" interior:D) but they say also that the boat is very agreeable at the wheel, fast and with a very good hull. they also said that they have managed to get a considerable interior height without making it apparent on the outside shape of the boat

Finally I managed to read a test sail, an Italian one, from Vela, a very good sailing magazine, this one:

http://www.sly-yachts.com/uploads/3b/5a/3b5a49b9219e4cc6ee3af1c0dfc5a2fe/Sly-38-GdV-Dic-12.pdf

And I know that I would probably love the boat and hate the interior:D

They say (for the ones that don't read Italian) as main title:

"Better than a go Kart : Fast, amusing and easy to sail. The interior can also be dismounted for racing".

And they give the maximum note in what regards sailing:

On an easy Easy 30° off the wind with 13 knots wind we reached 7.8 knots. The existence of a feet support allows for comfortable sailing without any effort. It's time to enjoy a little downwind sailing.... Even with a spinnaker of contained dimensions, we can safely descend to about 140 ° to the wind and helped by a little waves we reach a peak of 9.5 knots, while maintaining -perfect control of the boat ... I would define the Sly 38 as a "Go Kart" of the sea for its ease of handling and the speed with which it reacts to all the different stresses to which it is subject.

The Sly 38 was also tested by "Vela e Motore"

http://www.sly-yachts.com/uploads/b1/7f/b17f1c3ce91ebc3c42333a06d5c8ce7e/Sly-38-V-M-feb-13.pdf

and on this test they get light winds....and the performance was even better:



I don' see the need to comment that:D

They said also that the finish was below what is normally offered by Sly. On Sly the apologize and said that was just the prototype and that the production boats would be better.

Well, if they get that interior right, I would not mind to have one;)

They did not test this boat with a lot of wind but with all the ballast on a torpedo at 2.30 and a B/D ratio of 39% with 3.70m of beam this boat is going to be stiff, powerful, able to carry a lot of sail in a blow and blast against the wind at a tight angle.

This one, with a reasonable tankage, even in standard configuration, will be a fun sailingboat to cruise but also a serious contender on the Sydney-Hobart. Well, it would not be the most luxurious or comfortable cruising boat around but you cannot have it all...and this one offers already a lot in my opinion. What a boat:D

Regards

Paulo
 
#3,598 ·
Capado, almost home.

Thanks everybody. Feeling better:)

New images from Capado, with Adrien and Capucine crossing from South Africa to Brazi l(Cape town - S. Salvador). On a direct line it would be 3332Nm. They have made 4551Nm in 24 days and 17 hours at an average speed of 7,71K. Not bad for a 10m boat loaded for a circumnavigation;)



QUI SOMMES NOUS? - CAPADO creative boat

Le Voyage de Capado
 
#3,600 ·
Regarding the Sly 38: Obviously the best part is the performance -they give it 5 stars. I expected that as an Italian design and built she would have better interiors. In the Vela article they don't criticise the interiors apart from the steep companion way and praise the unique possibility to easily dismantle the interiors thus making the yacht even lighter than she is, being the lightest of all other compared yachts (Grand Soleil 39, Salona 38 and XP 38). I believe that dismantled she will be the fastest of all of them but I doubt this feature will make the average performance cruiser oriented buyer to choose her among the others. Most probably he will prefer the Grand Soleil for the same price or the Salona or the XP if the price is or is not an issue.

Regards
Rumen
 
#3,602 · (Edited)
Caribbean 600

Some more images. Pity the coverage was so bad. Some beautiful boats out there with some demanding conditions would give a very nice footage.



This race has the potential top become a Classic. The Idea is very interesting, the weather conditions have bean great. It just needs more truly race boats to become a more serious business. They have already plenty of big luxury yachts.
 
#3,603 · (Edited)
It's quite the event... great fleet, normally great conditions. We attended the after party and awards at the Antigua YC a few years back... that year the trades actually died and competitors were still out there... The committee didn't even set a time limit since the 'Trades never quit' but that year they did. We ended up motoring half way from Guadeloupe to Antigua in flat calm.

A remarkably laid back affair, the party, considering the luminaries hanging out there...
 
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#3,604 ·
Xs 35 cat

We talked about this one when It was just a project. Now it is on the water and it looks fast:):



This is a Morrelli & Melvin Design and comes after the R33. I guess the scope was to make the boat more multivalent, not only as a racer but as daysailer and a week end cruiser. They say that the boat has accommodations for four in two cabins with a head, icebox and stove and is trailerable.

About those accommodation I did not seen anything and also the complete absence of light in the interior or aeration seems not functional. I guess they could do better in what regards program definition. A pity because the boat seems very interesting.

XS Cats - Designers
 
#3,605 · (Edited)
Cruising Greece: planing information.

Copacabana is sending me a book about some part of the beautiful coast of Brazil. Nice of him. Hell, I can also share something with you guys, something that give me a lot of work, regarding Greece.

I guess that some around this thread had already sailed there and others will sail because Greece is something that should not be missed. Greece has some particularities being one of then the constant winds on the summer. If someone intends to sail extensively there it is better to plan carefully the voyage because on the Cyclades and Dodecanese region the Wind can blow between force 6 and 8 for weeks and I am sure nobody wants to get upwind with that kind of wind.

Another particularity in the Med is that marinas ate expensive and nowadays even small ports charge you for mooring. That is not a problem if the cruise is short but if he takes several months than it can be a problem. He only go to marinas or ports when we need water or diesel. Out of that we prefer to lunch at Tavernas with the money that would be "wasted" on marina or ports.

This requires also a good planing because not all anchorages are safe enough if wind raises and they are not distributed in a regular way.

So as a way to help planing I just made a blow up of a Rod Heikell map with the wind directions and researched extensively for anchorages, putting them on the map. These are anchorages for the predominant winds on the summer and to my experience predominant here means 90% of the time or over.

This will make easier to plan not only a zig-zag course escaping upwind sailing (I am sure I will get some:)) but also one that takes me to places where I have safe anchorages in nice places at the end of the day.

Too much talk:D. The map:



As red dots, the safe anchorages. There could be more around, those are only those that can give a good protection.

Red Islands mean that they have so many anchorages that I did not bother to mark them. Orange Islands, Islands with some anchorages (they are marked in some). Blue Islands, Islands with no or bad anchorages.

I hope it will be useful for some. I know it will be for me;)
 
#3,609 ·
Re: Cruising Greece: planing information.

Copacabana is sending me a book about some part of the beautiful coast of Brazil. Nice of him. Hell, I can also share something with you guys, something that give me a lot of work, regarding Greece.

I guess that some around this thread had already sailed there and others will sail because Greece is something that should not be missed. Greece has some particularities being one of then the constant winds on the summer. If someone intends to sail extensively there it is better to plan carefully the voyage because on the Cyclades and Dodecanese region the Wind can blow between force 6 and 8 for weeks and I am sure nobody wants to get upwind with that kind of wind.

Another particularity in the Med is that marinas ate expensive and nowadays even small ports charge you for mooring. That is not a problem if the cruise is short but if he takes several months than it can be a problem. He only go to marinas or ports when we need water or diesel. Out of that we prefer to lunch at Tavernas with the money that would be "wasted" on marina or ports.

This requires also a good planing because not all anchorages are safe enough if wind raises and they are not distributed in a regular way.

So as a way to help planing I just made a blow up of a Rod Heikell map with the wind directions and researched extensively for anchorages, putting them on the map. These are anchorages for the predominant winds on the summer and to my experience predominant here means 90% of the time or over.

This will make easier to plan not only a zig-zag course escaping upwind sailing (I am sure I will get some:)) but also one that takes me to places where I have safe anchorages in nice places at the end of the day.

Too much talk:D. The map:



As red dots, the safe anchorages. There could be more around, those are only those that can give a good protection.

Red Islands mean that they have so many anchorages that I did not bother to mark them. Orange Islands, Islands with some anchorages (they are marked in some). Blue Islands, Islands with no or bad anchorages.

I hope it will be useful for some. I know it will be for me;)
Been there, done that. Several times, because I fully agree this is an exceptional cruising area.

But our sailing would have been a lot easier and much more enjoyable if we had this synthetic map :cool:.

To check with the short term forecasts, of course. But these general wind patterns are indeed quite consistent and allow to avoid upwind courses as much as possible, with typically very uncomfortable wave patterns because of the strong winds and short fetch. Exactly what you don't want for a relaxing summer cruise.
And take advantage of the (also frequent) windless days to motor to a favourable location before the wind comes back.
And select a safe anchorage when it hits :D.

This makes me think of going back sailing there, but now I certainly would'nt without having this map permanently on my chart table :).

Best regards,

Eric
 
#3,606 · (Edited)
Good news: Finngulg is on again

Finngulf one of the most respected Nordic brands had gone bankrupt and it seemed that nobody was going to save it.

Not anymore:) Saved, like Najad by two motorboat companies: Tresfjord , a former Norwegian, now Swedish and Castello Boats from Finland.

Tresfjord Boats and Yachts

Home - Castelloboats

The Finngulf will continue to produce the Karl Johan Strahlmann designs (they have the molds) and the boats will be made in Estonia.

Curiously they will not produce the last launched boat (the 43 designed by Farr) anymore. They will continue to produce among others the 37 and 41 that are classic beauties with a swan look and fast too:

The 41:





The 37:







Both are beautiful boats but I find the 37 very well designed. It is very difficult to make a 37ft boat so well proportioned. The boat looks just perfect, I mean the 41 too, but that is a lot easier to do that on a 41ft boat than in a 37ft boat. Maybe we can have the same quality at a lower price. :)
 
#3,607 ·
We're all very happy to see that your scent for interesting sailboats is perfectly intact, Paulo :).

If everything also goes well for Alessandro Di Benedetto, he and his is IMOCA 60' Team Plastique will arrive tomorrow at Les Sables d'Olonne. And thereby end this 2012-2013 edition of the Vendée Globe, "the Everest of the seas".

Almost three weeks behind the winner François Gabart, but with a boat launched more than 14 years ago. One of he oldest designs and the only one with a fixed keel in this race. A major disadvantage, except for its reliability because this boat already participated (and finished!) in three previous Vendee Globe races. In fact Alessandro, although last to finish in this edition of the race, will be the fastest ever on this particular boat. Even after losing all of his downwind sails in the final stage of the race.

If you understand French, enjoy the highlights of Alessandro:


Le Vendée Globe d'Alessandro par VendeeGlobeTV

Last Sunday Tanguy de Lamotte crossed the finish line with his Initiatives-coeur. Also a quite old design but with a canting keel. He also got his share of misfortune, hitting an UFO with severe damage to his starboard rudder and daggerboard.

Meanwhile he succeeded to motivate hundreds of thousands people to "like" his "Initiatives Coeur" project. Thereby 15 children in need of cardiac surgery but without the necessary resources will be helped. I like that kind of engagement.

Again, only enjoyable if you understand French:


Nao raconte le tour du monde de Tanguy par VendeeGlobeTV

Tanguy and Alessandro never pretended to compete at the top. Their only ambition was to finish the race, if possible within an honorable time.
Both succeeded in this and I think they also did a wonderful job with their enthusiastic video's, permitting us to enjoy this extraordinary race almost in real time and giving us a human insight in this quite inhuman kind of sailing.

Best regards,

Eric
 
#3,608 ·
Vendee Globe

Yes, I have said already, I am a fan of Alessandro, not only as a sailor but as a man. Put that guy on the sea in a boat and he starts smiling:D and keep on smiling all race:D

I am very curious about the reception he is going to have.

Even Tanguy de Lamotte that was not properly impressive in my opinion (he is a professional racer with lot's of experience in Open 60) had this welcome:


La remontée du chenal de Tanguy de Lamotte por VendeeGlobeTV

and this video had already 47 200 hits in 8 hours:eek:
Alessandro performance as a sailor was far more impressive and if I am not mistaken the public knows that. I will not be surprised if the crowd waiting for him tomorrow noon is as big as the one that waited for the leader:D

I also hope this vendee and popularity helps him to find the sponsor for a competitive Open 60. He had proved that he is not only an adventurer but also a very good sailor that can be competitive if he has the means.

Regards

Paulo
 
#3,611 ·
Jeanneau 469 - Bavaria Vision 46

New test and movie on the Jeanneau 469:

MOVIE:

http://tv.yacht.de/frontend_dev.php...nie-komplett/b187dc676bd465feb563d9c679e4a55f

I had read several test sails about this boat and they are all unanimous in stating that this is a great cruiser. You can read the one that refers to the movie downloading it from Yacht.de (2 euros in German). It is certainly one of the best test sails, as it is usual on this magazine.

For me the really problem with this boat in what regards its success is the aesthetic side of the question. Nothing wrong with it but they broke on this line a basic rule of sails: They made all models according with the aesthetically line that comes from 409. We can see that this boat resembles the 409. That is a no no, a bigger and more expensive boat should not resemble the less expensive and smaller one, quite the opposite :D

Let's see how the public reacts to that. It is a shame because I am sure that is a great boat even if I find stupid that they had used the image of the 409 to make it look as belonging as the same design "line".

I guess that the main competition will come from the Bavaria vision 46 that costs 22 000 euros less. I had also read only nice things about the Bavaria Vision 46.

 
#3,612 · (Edited)
And the Vendee Globe is over: Alessandro made it home

and it seems it was not only me and Eric that had noticed that the guy was last but had made a remarkable performance with a boat 25% slower than the ones that arrived first (no canting keel, 14 year's old boat).

He started this race as an adventurer that knew little about racing or sailing an Open 60 and finishes it as a competitive racer and a smiling one, broken rib and all:). Now he only need a competitive boat to race with the best and I guess that his vast popularity will make it happen.

Alessandro Di Benedetto (FRA - ITA) on Team Plastique has crossed the finish line of the Vendée Globe at 15h 36 mn 30 s (French Time). He finishes eleventh in the race...(he) makes history with the shortest gap ever between the first and last finishers....

...(His) boat (was raced previously) by 'Cali' Boissières in 2008, Sébastien Josse in 2004 and Thomas Coville in 2000....

His race does not bear comparison to his rivals because he does not have the machine to compete in the pack and he has little experience of racing. And so he chooses to start steadily, to learn his boat day by day. To start with he is laid low by flu and that makes for a difficult first few days....

In a way the passage of Cape Horn is a watershed for the skipper of Team Plastique. He is no longer happy to just live his days in a good mood and get on steadily.

He has learned his boat and what makes each tenth of a knot of difference and he has upped the pace and rhythm accordingly. But successive damages have taken their toll. He is left with no downwind sails, has to climb the mast several times to sort out halyard issues. And a tumble into the cockpit when he gybes unexpectedly results in a broken rib for Alessandro. But he never shared a moment which was not upbeat and insightful. Just about every Di Benedetto broadcast started with 'everything is good, everything is OK ...

And now finishing today, Friday 22nd February, Alessandro has improved on the reference time for the boat of his pal Boissières by more than one day...

And ARNAUD BOISSIÈRES is a racer, not really a top one but a good one with lot's of experience racing Open 60's. He won the Record SNSM in 2011.

I am curious about the video. I will post it when available.

...
 
#3,613 ·
Alessandro di Benedetto

Yes, he was received as a winner and the movie is the last one. First have a look at this one. It seems that the school kids of an old mountain village of France (Orthez) had made him their hero and were following the race. They made a movie, don't miss it;)


L'Ecole de Castétarbe soutient Alessandro por VendeeGlobeTV

Seeing this movie I remember that François Gabard (the winner) said that he dreamed to won the Vendee Globe since he had 7 years old. Who knows if among those kids will not be a future solo racer and maybe a Vendee Globe winner. One thing is for sure. Sailing is popular in France, even for kids in Orthez in the middle of the Pyrenees.


Arrivée de Team Plastique (2ème partie) por VendeeGlobeTV
 
#3,614 · (Edited)
New Jboat: J88

J/88 a Fast Family Daysailer & Racer: The boat comes in the line of previous J and in what regards hull design we can see some parallel with some Italian/Croatian boats in what I would call a classic line with the beam not completely pulled aft and with a moderate beam (by modern standards). They don't announce ballast but I am quite sure that it will be a considerably high ratio, similar to the other recent J's. Well, it looks good, without being particularly innovative. I bet it will sail very well;)









From the J design/build team that launched the J/70 and J/111, comes the NEW J/88, a 29' mid-size family speedster with stability, style and sailing comfort. J/88 hits the sweet-spot in J Boat's performance sprit range - large enough to provide the creature comforts of a sit-in cockpit, inboard diesel, overnighting interior and head; and small enough to be single-point lifted, owner trailered and stored.

... Belowdecks, the J/88 sports a weekending layout with two full length settees, Igloo cooler, galley sink, private head forward of bulkhead and optional V-berth.

J/88 hull #1 is projected to launch in June 2013!


Dimensions ft/lb m/kg
LOA 29.19 8.90
LWL 26.84 8.18
Beam 9.50 2.90
Standard Draft 6.50 1.98
Displacement 4,850 2,200
DieselAux.Engine 12 hp 12 hp
100% SA 439 40.80
SA/Dspl 24 24
Dspl/L 112 112
 
#3,617 · (Edited)
Small oceangoing 28ft sailboat

Ok, you guys say that I only talk about expensive boats. Well, boats are expensive except if very old and I talk mostly about new boats.This one is a production relatively inexpensive boat with offshore capability, so younger guys and guys low on budget pay attention because this is a very interesting boat and a pretty much unknown one: a Polish one by a Polish NA. The designer, that also makes the boats, is a very interesting guy that had also circumnavigated, in one of his boats, of course:).

I find this so interesting that I will make it in several posts. First some movies wind the boat. Girls, play attention please, this may be of interest. Comments please:D:









 
#3,618 · (Edited)
Multihull Stability

While I wait for a comment on those movies and boat, a paper and some comments on Multihull stability that I have posted already on another thread.

http://www.wumtia.soton.ac.uk/sites/default/files/STAB2000BD.pdf

Not many studies around on cats. I had read this one many years ago and I had read it again. In my opinion the study, that is very interesting even if not always enlighten, suffers from a flaw: They determined that in the vast majority of capsizes wind was the main factor in what regards to capsizing and then when studding rolling and capsizing trough testing they considered only waves that have a pretty low incidence in capsizing catamarans, except when associated with wind.

I confess that I don't also understand this conclusion:

"84% of the catamaran casualties were the result of wind induced capsize or pitchpoling, whereas only 47% of the trimaran casualties were directly attributable to the wind. This does not indicate that trimarans are less vulnerable to capsize by the wind, because there are twice as many trimarans as catamarans in this sample"

They are talking about percentages so if the numbers are meaningful the fact that they have more samples from one than another is not relevant in what concerns percentages.

In fact it makes sense to say that Trimarans are less prone to capsize than catamarans by the wind. A simple compassion between two typical stability curves will show that while a cat after reaching its max righting moment (between 10º and 15º of heel) will lose rapidly stability, a Trimaran has a much more wider range of stability and even after reaching max RM, the loss of stability is much more gradual.

Here we have to stability curves of two cruising multihulls, or better several Cat GZ curves and a RM curve from a fast cruising trimaran (the shape of a GZ and RM curve is the same since they are proportional).





We can see that the cat MAX GZ (and RM) will be obtained with 15º of heel and then you have a strait line, from 45º till 80º.

Regarding the Cat we will see the the Max RM (and max GZ) will be obtained with 22º and then it is not a strait line but a slightly convex line that goes till 90º.

That's why when a cruising cat lifts one hull from the water it is a dangerous situation (a side wave can complete the loss of stability) while on a Trimaran sailing with one ama out of the water is normal and even with the central hull partially up (light on the water) the boat is still on control. this gives much more time for a sailor to react in a trimaran than in a cat. That is also why big ocean racing multihulls are today almost all trimarans.

Of course, they found out in that study (with testing) what it was obvious:

"Of the various catamaran configurations tested, the higher VCG (vertical center of gravity) conditions and the narrow beam configuration proved most vulnerable...
Although the narrow beam model was 20% narrower than the reference design, it is by no means unrepresentative. The length to hull separation ratio of the narrow model was 3.1 ..Previous tests with monohull models, indicated that, in general, they could be capsized by a breaking wave of a height equal to or greater than the beam of the yacht. "


and here he can see a basic difference between monohulls and multihulls, I mean on the last paragraph. Since the size of the wave, among other factors, relates with the beam of the boat in what regards the size needed to roll it, multihulls are much more resistant to be capsized by a breaking wave.

That is why when we study the factors that lead to the roll of monohulls we have by far breaking waves while on multihulls that is very rare (but not unheard) being by far the main factor, wind or wind associated with waves, a factor that has practically no relevance in rolling monohulls.

Here we can see that through these stability curves (all cats):



We can see that the values of Max GZ go from 1.8 to 3.0 (that has to do with beam). The cat they use as basic model (From where were derived the other models, with less and more beam, higher or lower CG) was a scale model of a 13.6m cat. A monohull with the same size has a Max Gz between 0.8 and 1.2. Since for the same size cats and monohulls have approximately the same weight that can gives us an idea of the different static stability and about the potential to carry sail.

Off course, the cats have to maintain a much bigger safety margin of security in what regards the amount of sail it is safe to carry. On a monohull a broach and a knock down is not a problem, on a cat it means a capsize.

Also, as was expected, they found out that Keels have a negative effect in what regards capsizing multihulls, but not with the relevance that Tropicat seem to attribute to them as a causing factor:

"The addition of the keels appeared to result in a slight increase in the vulnerability to capsize. For the narrow model it increased the capsize incidence from 14% to 60%, and for the standard model with the second VCG increase it increased from 17% to 25%. ...These results support the theory that it is the resistance to sideways motion that provides the couple to convert the breaking wave energy into rotation."

As we can see only on the narrow than average Cat the effect of the keels was very significant. On the standard model the increase was only 8% and in a sportive cat, that is wider than the average it is expected the increase would be even smaller. besides this is an old study from the nineties. Today almost no cats use keels, but daggerboarders that have a smaller lateral resistance so it is expected the negative effect in what regards stability to be smaller.

Regarding trimarans, not surprisingly and contrary to the wind factor, they have found that they are slightly more prone to capsize with a breaking wave, found out that smaller floaters in proportion with the main hull will make them easier to capsize by a breaking wave. Here, contrary to catamarans, the weight is a negative factor (and that's why I like trimarans:D).

"Of the trimaran configurations, those with the smaller floats were most vulnerable, with a 28% capsize rate for the standard displacement and a 38% capsize rate for the higher displacement....The tests confirmed the common opinion that small floats tend to become fully immersed if the yacht is struck by a breaking wave. Their high resistance to sideways motion then encourages rotation."

...
 
#3,619 · (Edited)
Interesting 28ft boat?

Given your lack of comments it seems that those movies with the Polish ladies and that Polish mass produced 28ft sailboat had only impressed me. You guys are difficult to impress, or maybe you just didn't pay enough attention?

Did you have noticed that it is always the same boat? I mean not the same model, but the same boat?

Did you noticed that all those girls circumnavigated on it solo, some without stopping? A couple circumnavigated also.

So, the same mass production 28ft boat makes 4 circumnavigations, 3 of them solo with ladies, always brings everybody safe home, remains in one piece and it is ready to make another circumnavigation and that boat does not impress you? Jesus you guys are really hard to impress:D

Maybe the incredible speed one of the ladies managed on is little 28ft impress you? Joanna Pajkowska managed to circumnavigate non stop in 198 days. That is two days less than the double of the time Alessandro de Benedetto took on the last vendee Globe in his Open 60.

Jesus, that is about half the speed of a racing Open 60 on a 28ft sturdy cruising sailboat !!!!!. That impresses me, I would say CHAPEAU!!!! That does not impress you:eek:????

Comments?

Samotnie dooko³a ¶wiata - Start

kpt. Joanna Pajkowska - Sama na morzu... - Start

Kobiece regaty dooko³a ¶wiata - Mantra 28.

News: Bolo & Jadzia na Oceanie

http://www.rejs-asiapajkowska.yoyo.pl/
 
#3,628 ·
Re: Interesting 28ft boat?

Jesus you guys are really hard to impress:D
I, for one, am extremely impressed, by both the skill and confidence of the women, and by the performance of the boat. Too bad that I'm not able to understand the Polish commentary, although I did watch all the videos to the end. Now I will certainly be doing more research on this boat, although it is a bit smaller than I would prefer, since I am planning to go double-handed, not solo. However, I'm now thinking that 33-35ft might be adequate, whereas I had been thinking no shorter than 40ft, for speed, safety and comfort.

Please post any print or video reviews of the Mantra 28 if you should come across them (preferably in English, French or Spanish). Thank you very much for posting these inspirational videos.

MrP
 
#3,623 · (Edited)
Mantra 28



Hi:). welcome to the thread and to Sailnet.

Yes, you are right regarding category A and I want to say that I am not endorsing a 28ft boat as a bluewater boat and that personally I would be very reticent in crossing the pond in one less even in circumnavigating in one. It obviously can be done and with a reasonable risk margin, since that boat had circumnavigated several time. Happens that to me a reasonable margin is not enough, I want a big safety margin:D

That does not mean that the Mantra 28 is not a very seaworthy boat for its size and also a well built one. No 28ft boat could survive 4 circumnavigations if it was not a strong and well built boat. I find the Mantra 28 remarkable as a mass production boat but the comparison with the Vega only is valid if, as you say, we consider the time where they were designed : Both are two great answers for the same design criteria separated by 45 years of design and technological improvements.

The Albin Vega is a 1967 design:





It is a narrower boat and a full keeler with a sail area/displacement of 16.5. The Mantra 28 is a modern design, beamier (2.70m to 2.46m), with a modern keel with much more draft ( 1.65m to 1.12m) with almost all the weight in a bulb. It has not only a superior stability as it is much faster. It has also more interior space.



The interior is not its stronger point even if it looks functional:







But look at this Dimensions:



Look at this hull:

MANTRA28 VIDEOS



If I was looking for a small cruiser with offshore capacity I would certainly would go to Poland to look at this one and to know if they cannot do a better job on the interior. Well, I can design it:D

All the rest seems very good to me in what regards hull design and the very good B/D ratio (36%). I like it and probably the price is an agreeable surprise. Polish boats tend to be not much expensive. Maybe they can tell us about that:).















http://www.mantra-yachts.com/prodrange/M28/brochure/brochure.pdf

mY mantra 28

Regards

Paulo
 
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