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Lifting the aft end out of the water in the slip

4K views 26 replies 14 participants last post by  Squidd 
#1 ·
This might be a stupid question but I'm a noob so here goes.

Due to an improper repair by a past owner and subsequent near catastrophic failure of the stuffing box tube (see earlier posts), I have decided to replace the assembly with a PSS dripless system. That's not the stupid part (although there are some here who might disagree).

The only way for our local marina to get the boat out of the water is to hook up their gooseneck triple axle trailer and haul the whole boat onto the yard. This takes three people, with at least one of them getting wet to adjust the supports prior to the final drive out. I don't mind paying for it, but the marina owner is not enthused about doing it. This seems like a lot of effort for a half-day's job.

Here is the potentially stupid question. Since I really only need to raise the aft of the boat enough for the stern tube to clear the water and not sink my boat while I am doing the repair, is the haul out really necessary? Could we not rig an A-frame or something on the dock with straps that will be capable of lifting the boat safely and far enough to clear the waterline? The boat displacement is 6000 lbs, but if only the aft end were lifted a foot or so, the weight on the dock and contraption would be a fraction of that, correct? It's been awhile since college physics, but if the weight were lifted on the aft, wouldn't some of the weight be distributed forward to the water supporting the bow? The base of the keel would probably still be in the water or just above it.

Has anyone tried something like this?
 
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#2 ·
I have actually installed a knotmeter transducer by supporting the bow of the boat with a crane and slings and letting the tide drop away until I could get under with a dinghy.. it was ultimately successful but in hindsight it was probably not a very clever thing to do... one slip or failure in the support structure would have been catastrophic. The things we can get away with at times....:eek: I sure wouldn't try it again - btw this was on a similar displacement boat.

The problem with such a plan - or even planning to do such a job on a tidal grid is that there's no room for error and any delays or glitches you may run into are difficult to accommodate.

What you're contemplating is a complex job.. the shaft coupling needs to come off, the shaft retracted (but not dropped to the bottom) - is there clearance for that between the prop and the rudder (or the strut and zincs??)

Too many variables... never mind the safety aspects....
 
#3 · (Edited)
Faster is right. I am in the middle of this repair myself. I would find a place where you could haul it out of the water. There are too many variables that could affect how long you will be involved in this repair.

In theory, from the outside (in the water) you could also stuff material between the prop shaft and the shaft tube, then let the bilge pump take care of the inevitable water ingress, but I would not recommend anything less than pulling the boat out of the water.
 
#4 ·
Thanks Faster,
No tides, we are on an inland lake. But any wake could cause the boat to move in relation to the dock, adding stress to the rig.

I am also assuming that everything will go smoothly, which is a huge assumption with a 26 year old coupling. I would also have to get to the shaft and remove the zinc that is directly in front of the prop strut.

Sometimes you have to write a thing out to see the error of it.

So, if I am hauling out is there a list somewhere of things I should check so I don't have to do it again soon?
 
#7 ·
What model boat is it/what is the hull shape?

Given that you have an inboard this is unlikely but some boats can actually be winched up a beach on rollers quite easily.

As others have stated, it is always better to be safe than sorry. If you are going to try something, you might want to look to see how your insurance would handle it. I have always used a rule of thumb that if I have to ask others how to do something since I can't figure it out myself, maybe I shouldn't be doing it.

Have you called around and seen whether there are any other local hauling companies? There are many ways to haul a boat depending on the setup including trailer, crane, forklift, marine railway etc.

Good luck.
 
#11 ·
What model boat is it/what is the hull shape?
It is a Pearson 27. I think it is what they refer to as an IOR shape from the mid 1980's.

I have always used a rule of thumb that if I have to ask others how to do something since I can't figure it out myself, maybe I shouldn't be doing it.
Surely you aren't serious? I have a rule of thumb that is exactly the opposite. If I have run the various possible solutions to a problem through my head and cannot find an adequate answer, that is the time that I reach out to others with more experience.

I think I understand your intended meaning though. I will be badgering the marina owner until he does allow me to pay him to haul it out.

Have you called around and seen whether there are any other local hauling companies? There are many ways to haul a boat depending on the setup including trailer, crane, forklift, marine railway etc.
I have, and I wish there were more options. Central Arkansas is an isolated area when it comes to sailing support. I am finding it takes commitment to be a sailor here. If it weren't for the long sailing season and the beautiful lakes I wouldn't even consider it. Well, I probably would since I have been rendered insane by a sailing bug bite. :rolleyes: I am happy to live in an era that I have access to the internet and the great people on SailNet.

Good luck.
Thanks.
 
#8 ·
RE: Installing the PSS: If you have not already done so, read the article here: PSS Shaft Seal Installation Photo Gallery by Compass Marine at pbase.com. In particular, I strongly advise you add the clamp collar as described in the article, as in this photo:
.

A few months ago, my PSS rotor slipped slightly, leaving a gap between the rotor and the bellows...as I was leaving the boat, I heard water running...the washdown hose was turned off, so...after a few seconds tearing open every access panel I could, I found this problem. Say ~100 gallons came onboard in ~5 minutes; the flow stopped as soon as I pushed the rotor tight against the bellows again. Fortunately no harm done (except to my nerves), replaced the grub screws and re-adjusted. However, the clamp collar would have prevented this near-disaster.

BTW, the PSS seal works great, and the folks there are very helpful. I am just not convinced about having the safety of my boat dependent on two small grub screws...
 
#10 ·
I am just not convinced about having the safety of my boat dependent on two small grub screws...
Thanks Paul, your experience will be in my mind while I plan this upgrade. Did your SS ring have just the two set screws? The PSS sold now have a second set of locking screws as well. The insurance of the locking ring seems well worth the money.
 
#13 ·
itsaboat,

My PSS rotor was secured with two threaded holes, 4 screws in total (inner pair to lock against the shaft, outer pair to lock in inner pair). As the motor is engaged into forward or reverse - depending on the engine mounts the engine shifts, which moves the bellows against the motor. In my case I can only assume the screws were not installed tight enough; over time the rotor worked itself slightly loose, until finally there was no grip so as the engine reversed it slipped back, letting water flood in.

BTW, as you probably know, the set screws are a one-time use thing as they have a "sharp" rim to "bite" into the prop shaft - maybe my prop shaft is unusually hard? - anyway, here is another excellent photo from the Compass Marine site to illustrate:


The additional collar uses much bigger screws to clamp firmly on to the shaft.
(with thanks to Maine Sail...)
 
#14 ·
I prefer KISS to finicky parts in inaccessible locations, so I'd ask just how bad the stuffing box is, and whether gore-tex packing in a conventional tube might not be preferable to a PSS system. If you go with PSS, those set screws are the reason that Loctite cleaner and threadlock were invented, invest ten bucks in making sure they stay put.

The toilet wax rings work very well but if you're taking out the whole tube and dropping the shaft, that's a lot of potential for getting stuck and having the boat ashore in case you get stuck overnight would be a nice idea. Or at least, have a good set of damage control plugs available so you can literally hammer in some protection if you need to leave the boat with the shaft out overnight.

If the profile of the boat's bottom and the dockside/shore work out, you probably can weight down the bow until the stern comes out, or use floats to raise the stern out. From 15-gallon heavy plastic chemical barrels (free "garbage" behind photoprocessing labs and some food packers) to used 55-gallon drums, you can often get some kind of flotation for free. Tied together, slipped under the hull and hauled forward, they can raise the stern but...if you can find someplace to just haul the boat and put it on stands, that might be the most effective thing to do. Certainly the most "relaxed" way to work when the job is a first-timer and may get complications.
 
#16 ·
Thanks all for the input. As it stands right now, I am going to haul out and do it the safe and correct way as soon as I can.

Thanks, James, for the pics of your replacement. That looked like a son-of-a-***** to repair. I hope that mine is more straightforward! :eek:

MainSail cautions against reusing the same coupler, but I am planning on doing just that to avoid ordering a new one and dealing with machine shops. Here is a picture of the current coupler.


The Volvo setup on the Pearson is what looks like a bronze shaft and bronze coupler attached to a rubber or plastic vibration damper before the transmission. Is this more-or-less self aligning?
 

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#17 ·
That's all pretty tight.. I doubt you'll have room for the insurance collar, and you may need to check the overall length of the bellows hose/seal assy against your current stuffing box to be certain you can get that all in.

Also.. I wonder if there's any issues putting the SS lock collar(s) onto a bronze shaft.... Could be given the age of the boat and the effort you'll be going to you may as well replace with SS? (do it right, do it once??)

On the plus side it all looks pretty clean and should come apart easily enough!
 
#18 ·
That's all pretty tight.. I doubt you'll have room for the insurance collar, and you may need to check the overall length of the bellows hose/seal assy against your current stuffing box to be certain you can get that all in.
I think that I can fit it in. That picture is a bit misleading. According to the PYI/PSS specs, the compressed length of the seal is 6 1/4". The current tube itself is 6", and that is not including the stuffing box which adds at least 3" or so. The picture below gives a better idea of scale.

Also.. I wonder if there's any issues putting the SS lock collar(s) onto a bronze shaft.... Could be given the age of the boat and the effort you'll be going to you may as well replace with SS? (do it right, do it once??)
That's a good thought. I am just reluctant to go to the trouble and expense of replacing the whole prop/shaft assembly all because a 6" radiator hose rotted away. I want to do it right, but I have to balance cost and what is necessary to get everything working. It is a 26 year old boat after all.

It seems like the only SS contact with the shaft will be the set screws of the dripless system. I did not think about the SS/bronze issue. I might wait and reconsider the lock collar. It can always be added later.
 

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#22 · (Edited)
Itsaboat,

I was down at the marina todatychecking on mine and thought about your situation. I'm not sure if the slip can handle the force or not but I had an idea.

Could you first put some weight on the bow and then run a strap under the boat just aft of the keel and maybe using a come-along, tighten up on the strap, thus lifting the stern? It may give you just the clearance you need?

Anyways, just an idea. I live in Conway but I'll be down there as much as I can. Mine is the S2, second on the left.
 
#23 ·
You are going to have to pull the shaft off the motor to remove the old stuffing box and install the new PSS shaft seal. You could save a few bucks and use a properly fitting shaft zinc to back up your PSS rotor. I'll bet the split SS back-up collar costs more than a shaft zinc.

BTW, I've got a 21 yr old PSS shaft seal and it has the double set screw arrangement and has never failed. I don't have a backup ring, but it seems like cheap insurance.

The wax ring suggestion makes my head hurt when I contemplate a number of complications you don't want to deal with.

If it were my boat, I wouldn't attempt this job if you couldn't at least get the cutless bearing out of the water. Before you get too creative, you might check with the helpful folks at PSS to see what they might suggest, other than a haulout.
 
#26 ·
Thanks again for all the suggestions. The project has grown to include installing new through hulls and depth/speed transducers. We will also address a small oil leak from the transmission when it is engaged. So, a haul out will be best/safest/sanest way to handle it.

Yes, I will be checking the cutlass bearing as well.

The zinc is not a bad idea, I'll think about SS collar as well; these are things that can be added at any time.
 
#27 ·
Thanks again for all the suggestions. The project has grown to include installing new through hulls and depth/speed transducers. We will also address a small oil leak from the transmission when it is engaged. So, a haul out will be best/safest/sanest way to handle it..
Now your talking.. doing it all at once makes it worth while, but doing it right makes it safe...
 
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