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Last Night at the Harvard Club

17K views 148 replies 30 participants last post by  smackdaddy 
#1 ·
This "new thread" is actually sort of a phase II from S/V Triumph. You might want to review that thread in order to understand the background to this one.

My wife and I exchanged emails this morning, related to that "event" roughly 1000 miles between Boston and the Azore Islands this past July 27th, as we lost our vessel the Triumph:
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Boy, it is so rough to meet up with a group of sailors :( I expected the initial rehashing of the 'story', but I couldn't get anyone off of it. After going through the "what you should have done..." the group I was talking to quickly moved to the "thank god you're still alive..." Then, I tried to change the subject by asking about their boats. That garnered a quick "Cape Dory, etc." then back to survival stories. I started crying at one point when Donna kept recounting stories of people who had fallen overboard and were either lost at sea or drowned or had a heart attack in the Gulf Stream. This was embellished liberally with "it's a wonder Doug survived. Don't know how that happened..." Okay, so now I'm crying here at my desk. Do people honestly think this helps? Or are they just ghouls? Which is my conclusion. I know you were the one that was in the water the longest and faced death the closest, but, whether you believe it or not, I don't know how I could have gone on without you. You are my soulmate and the love of my life. Without you, everything is meaningless... And I wish to hell people would quit deliberating over how close I came to losing you... I hate them. Love you.
 
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#56 ·
It is an interesting-looking boat. I wonder how they could built it for that price though. Certainly labor is going to quite a bit cheaper less in Ukraine, but can it be that much less. If you look at boats made in China where labor is cheaper than Ukraine they are cheaper but not that much cheaper. Also a wooden boat requires more skilled labor force than fg construction.

Worth checking out though to see if they have delivered any boats you could see. The pics show lovely interior finish but it sounds like a company that builds commercial craft which is something different. Also, having a 53' wooden boat to look after scares the crap out of me. Once considered a 28' gaff-cutter but returned to my sanity before doing anything silly.
 
#57 ·
Yes, I was quite intrigued by this yards' advertisement. Though as far as the wooden hull, on the specs I looked at for their schooner, it stated an epoxy over wood lay up.

Regardless, we're still only interested in the CT 54 or 56s. I was just amazed about this yards' existence and $145K price for a NEW 53' schooner!
 
#59 ·
You're absolutely right about some of the design strengths of the Beneteau, most people don't know about the carbon fiber used in these. The design of our 2000 Oceanis 38 is so well thought out that everything seems to be right where it should be... winches, clutches, etc. Although the woodwork looks nice it but is clearly mahonogy veneer, and I find is less attractive in the newer models.
 
#61 ·
Doug
Curious about what made you so interested in the CT 56? If it is aesthetics I can imagine it since they are beautiful. Just seems like an awfully big boat for a couple to cruise with. Heck, at times, my boat seems too big, but is much smaller 36K displacement vs 60k.
 
#64 ·
Well, initially we were shopping through the various Taiwanese boats, i.e., the Formosas, Hudsons, Force 50s, but most of them were beat to hell.
We wanted the sweeping decks, and the beautifully carved wood work.
But, most of the ones we saw did not have the pilot house cockpit we wanted which would provide the larger, more spacious aft cabin.

There are not many new ketches being built. No Beneteaus, Sabres, Jenneaus, Bavarias, etc., so, right off the bat, only the older boats are ketches with such beautiful lines and wood work.

The new boats, also don't have very good "fit and finish" and have a lot of veneered wood.

Besides the Fort Lauderdale boat shows, which we have attended for years, we just attended the Boston Boat show this past weekend. The new boats suck. All sloops, all with junky fit and finish. I pointed out the loose and poorly installed fittings on a Hanse I was aboard at the show to the salesman. And he didn't care! He said, this is a production boat.

These sloops have aft cabins like coffins, and I enjoy the ability to sail "jig and jigger" especially in strong winds.

So....... after we found mostly beat Formosas, etc., all in the $75 to $125K asking price range, we upped our "budget" and found these CTs.
Well, these HAVE the beauty and the spacious interior space we are looking for! Did you see the interior on that link? WOW.

Now, we also have a chartering enterprise, so we need a boat which can accomodate 2 couples plus us, with an almost luxurious quality. The classic sailing lines of these CTs plus the gorgeous interiors, and the great aft cabins with 2 other ample staterooms, meets all those needs.

And all for around $200K! We are liveaboards. So, there is also the reality that we are at the dock around 90% of the time. And we want our "home" to be as comfy as possible.

Only a very few sailboats are away from the dock more than tied up to it.
Wherever we have been, for the most part, we are away from the dock more than all of our neighbors, and as I said, we aren't sailing anywhere near as often as we are tied up.

That's why.
 
#62 ·
I'd hardly rate Jon Eisberg's post as "vile".

Seems to me that anyone has the right to doubt the veracity of claims by a yard to be able to deliver a 53' timber schooner for under USD$150,000, to employ between 30 and 400 people, to have a EU750,000 order book through to then end of 2011 and yet unable or at least unwilling to produce a single photograph of a completed or even semi completed boat.

Maybe just maybe me and Eisberg are simply lacking in faith but Doug, if you are interested I have an Opera House going cheap ...

Simply put - doubt and/or disagreement does not equal "vile".
 
#65 ·
I'd hardly rate Jon Eisberg's post as "vile".

Seems to me that anyone has the right to doubt the veracity of claims by a yard to be able to deliver a 53' timber schooner for under USD$150,000, to employ between 30 and 400 people, to have a EU750,000 order book through to then end of 2011 and yet unable or at least unwilling to produce a single photograph of a completed or even semi completed boat.

Maybe just maybe me and Eisberg are simply lacking in faith but Doug, if you are interested I have an Opera House going cheap ...

Simply put - doubt and/or disagreement does not equal "vile".
Perhaps "vile" was not the best choice of words. Yet, Mr. Eisenwhatever, may focus his choice of words a tad more acceptably if he wants to converse in a friendly manner, with me, or anyone.

He may well not believe the claims of a viable yard, however he need not associate his skeptical attitude toward the poster; in this case me.

As far as pictures of their completed builds, many do exist; but it is not my job to provide them. Anyone who wishes to may investigate that yard to their hearts delight, and in that investigation they may well confirm the globally known customers of that yard, starting with the Queen of England.

So, be a skeptic if you want to but don't focus that attitude on ME, when I am not the salesman, only the person sharing their existence. But, if you do choose to focus your skepticism on me, don't be too surprised if I react as anyone would who is being treated / associated with the target of that skepticism.

I don't need it, deserve it, and won't accept it.

The anonymity of the internet as a place to converse seems to allow those who choose to, to "speak" to others in manners which they generally would not do face to face.

I am only trying to raise that bar, if you want to talk to me. Pretend I am standing right in front of you, and then as we are enjoying a drink and appetizers together, with our wives beside us, you might notice that you are not asking: "Hope you're not seriously considering this... (grin)" Which denigrates me if I were to be seriously considering this.

Lets' play nice. That's all I am trying to accomplish. But, this person is especially adept at not. And I don't like being pushed onto my defensive mode while talking with "friends".
 
#66 · (Edited)
Why is it that a word of warning is perceived as an attack on one's own integrity, or intelligence or manhood or whatever?
Doug, chill out. Skepticism is a GOOD thing, it makes one think.
*Mike Brady moment /on*
When you say "let's play nice," remember that "let's" is a contraction of "let us", and you are part of the "us," so don't forget to do your share.

*Mike Brady moment /off*
 
#67 ·
I am not the proper entity to focus skepticism of that yard upon.
I do not appreciate condescending attitudes, and his reaks of it.

Do you like people who act condescending to you? I doubt that settles well with anyone. He can stop that with everyone and enjoy the resulting improvement in his social life. Or not, his choice.
 
#70 ·
I do think it would make a lot of sense for me to ask each of the sellers of the small number of CT 54 and 56s, globally, what their build number is; then I could ask Mr. Perry if he happens to know which of those would be the better built one out of this list.

Considering his involvement in their construction, he might well know the specific build history which sure would save me from a lot of research and investigation if he shared that with me.

Thanks everyone for pointing me in that direction.
 
#73 · (Edited)
#75 ·
Well Sailors, we made an offer today on a 1986 Ta Chiao CT 56!

If our offer is accepted, we should close on her March 31st. She is a beautiful boat, we're very excited to possibly be her next owners.

Can't wait to unfurl her sails!

By the way, we travelled to Long Beach / San Diego, Guatemala, Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, Texas, New Orleans, Florida, and Long Island NY while searching / shopping for our boat.

We learned that just looking for a boat on-line is a lot like internet dating... when she opens the door you suddenly realize the pictures were taken years ago, before she stopped her regular maintenance.... :)
 
#79 ·
Well Sailors, we made an offer today on a 1986 Ta Chiao CT 56!

If our offer is accepted, we should close on her March 31st. She is a beautiful boat, we're very excited to possibly be her next owners.

Can't wait to unfurl her sails!

By the way, we travelled to Long Beach / San Diego, Guatemala, Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, Texas, New Orleans, Florida, and Long Island NY while searching / shopping for our boat.

We learned that just looking for a boat on-line is a lot like internet dating... when she opens the door you suddenly realize the pictures were taken years ago, before she stopped her regular maintenance.... :)
Congratulations Doug! That really is a beautiful boat! You should take pictures on your first trip aboard and post them here. I at least would love to see more of her.
 
#78 ·
She really IS a beautiful boat.

This is the description:

A Superb Blend of Old World Charm and Exquisite Craftsmanship, this is one of the most beautiful yachts ever built and can circumnavigate the globe with confidence. It's steady motion under power or sail make it an exceptional passage-maker, easily sailed short handed. Powered by a Ford Lehman 135hp engine, many updates have recently been done, including new Barrier Coating, New Hard Top with overhead windows, New Awlgrip Deck and Hull, Solar Panels, New Hard Dodger, Full Enclosure, NavNet Furuno Color Radar/Plotter/Weather, Robertson Autopilot and new Custom Electronics box at the helm. She offers air conditioned sleeping accommodation for eight, she has six ft. six inch headroom, and abundant creature comforts only found in much larger yachts. The raised saloon is at the foot of a grand stairway with double hand carved handrails and is a masterpiece of teak and rosewood. From the teak and holly sole to the teak paneling and beautifully carved doors, the rich hand varnished interior provides a warm and welcoming home, or home away from home. She is luxurious, bright and extremely spacious with lots of light and vetilation through out the yacht.
 
#81 ·
Are you going to have a thorough survey done? I've often considered hiring a surveyor to do an "ocean crossing" survey. Ie, nothing held back, everything checked, die tests, engine, etc. even most prepurchase surveys fall way short. Honestly, for a boat of the size, a very thorough survey should take an inspector plus a helper (spare hands gofer) nearly two full days to complete. You might even need multiple players for structure, engine and electronics.
 
#85 ·
Well, what we are looking for in the surveyor we need to hire for this purchase, which by the way, we have reached an agreement on the sale, (closing July 16th), is a surveyor experienced with these Ta Chiao CTs.

We are buying the boat: "as is", so whatever is wrong will be ours along with the boat. However, I would like to know what they can see is wrong with her; and someone experienced with these would be the best to spot the issues with one of these boats.

As far as an "ocean crossing" survey, well, we'll see how things are looking as we approach that time. Our tentative date for our next crossing will be years not months from now.

So, back to the present, we need a surveyor in the St. Augustine area who is experienced with Ta Chiao CT 56s, or 54s.
 
#82 ·
This maybe worth the cost just to gain maximum confidence that nothing has been missed. Because of my limited knowledge I hired the best surveyor I could find at twice the cost of the competition for my prepurchase survey. He and I spent over 12 hours doing the inspection. The previous owner was not happy! However, I am confident I bought a solid vessel. Now I just need to get some experience and confidence in myself. For those of you in the Clear Lake area keep a keen eye out for the rookie!
 
#99 ·
One of the "issues" with this CT 56 is that the current owner had the teak deck sealed using Cetol. Well, as that is so infamous for doing, it has turned orange.

So, I am wondering how to strip the Cetol off without being too violent, i.e., sanding.
Will "Strip Eze" do it?
Amazingly, the deck is not leaking, so I surely don't want to change that condition. :)

Any ideas on this?
 
#101 ·
One of the "issues" with this CT 56 is that the current owner had the teak deck sealed using Cetol. Well, as that is so infamous for doing, it has turned orange.

So, I am wondering how to strip the Cetol off without being too violent, i.e., sanding.
Will "Strip Eze" do it?
Amazingly, the deck is not leaking, so I surely don't want to change that condition. :)

Any ideas on this?
Scrape it and then sand it. Is any of the caulk standing proud? Of so, you will want to trim that down first, which is a serious PITA.
 
#105 · (Edited)
Well, he came down from $295K asking, to $240K sold. Yes, it is a buyers market.

We "shopped" from Long Beach / San Diego to NY, with New Orleans, Texas, and the VIs in between. The other boats we looked at were more willing to negotiate; but this boat doesn't have a "list" anywhere near as extensive as the majority of the others did, so there was a lot less to point to as price diminishers.

All we were left with was the "buyers' market" to leverage. :)

We decided to pay the extra $40K to save at least a year worth of work.
Plus, this boat is really gorgeous. :)
 
#108 ·
I have had good luck with a cabinet scraper blade. Or a smoothing plane blade ground almost square. Create a burr with a mill file. You get about three strokes scraping and three with a file to replace the burr. Very, fast, safe and old school.
 
#109 ·
Well folks, we're in the middle of the delivery from Fort Lauderdale to Boston of our CT 56 / Triumph.

Initially John (a "hired friend"), and I had to spend 5 days, from Friday 7/20 through Tuesday addressing various issues in preparation for the cruise North. We had to address hydraulic steering hose replacements, engine starting issues, and batteries and their associated wiring, and charging systems. This effectively ate up the extra time I had allocated for the cruise north from work. The largest time "lost" was because of the elusive true engine starting issue of the ignition key mechanism being the real culprit; not the battery, wires, terminals, etc. Probably 2 days were eaten up until we discovered the ignition key mechanism was faulty.

We cast off on Wednesday, 7/25, and made it as far as Beaufort, N.C., where we put in at a Marina on Friday the 27th, in order to address leakage from the stuffing box.

While there, John and I had discussions of the remaining course to follow wherein his priority of his personal comfort was determined to be in conflict with my time constraints. It sort of all came down to his demand to hug the coastline and then sail inside Long Island NY., and my calculation to make a straight line from where we were to Buzzards' Bay if I would have any chance of making it to Boston within my remaining time off from work.

So, from this conflict, John and Evelyn switched as the "crew", and Evelyn and I headed out on Saturday the 28th, after John and I replaced the packing / stuffing in the stuffing box.

When doing this stuffing box work, though we had access to supplies of stuffing materials, John indicated no need to acquire any other than what happened to be onboard, so that is what we used. There were 3 different sizes of this material, and we used them all.

As Evelyn and I headed North, I noticed more leakage from the stuffing box than was healthy, so I tightened the packing; this boats' stuffing box is the type which has 2 rectangular plates held together with 2 bolts, with the inside "plate" having a collar which fits inside the outside plate, and a packing material is inserted in the gap of these collars. Each tightening action temporarily stopped the leakage, but within minutes the leakage returned. Luckily the bilge pump kept up with this leak.

Finally, I saw that the packing material was being broken up by the propeller shaft and the leak was in full flow status.

Also, the SW winds picked up to 30 + knots, inspiring us to head into them, effectively returning to Beaufort, NC. We pulled into that marina Sunday, 7/29, at about noon.

So, considering it would require acquisition of the correct stuffing box packing material on Monday, and the time to install it, we no longer had anywhere near enough time available from work to proceed.

Time and wrong choices worked against us.

The stuffing box has been repaired by competent people, and we have a delivery Captain about to bring her to Boston while Evelyn and I at our jobs.

And there you have it. Never easy or boring.

Doug
 
#119 ·
We cast off on Wednesday, 7/25, and made it as far as Beaufort, N.C., where we put in at a Marina on Friday the 27th, in order to address leakage from the stuffing box.
Wow, even if you had departed at 0001 on Wednesday, and arrived at 2359 on Friday, that's a pretty quick trip... You guys must have nailed the Stream, for sure...

Very odd that after such a passage, your crew would want to hug the coast north of Hatteras... Given favorable weather, your inclination to shoot straight for the CC canal would definitely have been the preferred route, especially for a shorthanded crew...

Some may disagree with this, but you might want to consider a dripless shaft seal at some point in the future, I've found them to be very reliable...

Congrats on your new baby, and good luck getting her the rest of the way home...
 
#112 ·
Congrats and kudos to be on your way again Doug.

Not to sound judgmental but the stuffing box is too important to leave in the hands of 'competent people' to repair for you if you are planning to head across the pond again. I am not familiar with the stuffing box arrangement on a 54' boat like yours but I have learned that using the correct size packing is quite important. Using packing that is even 1/16" too small or too big can lead to problems that can bite you in the a$$ when there are no 'competent people' to take care of it for you.

You might have seen this tutorial on stuffing boxes but I'm linking it anyway: Re-Packing A Traditional Stuffing Box Photo Gallery by Compass Marine at pbase.com
I doubt your 54 footer has the same kind of stuffing box but the principles are the same.

Nice to read that you are back at the helm.
 
#115 ·
Thank you for your helpful link / video and advice. I used the term "competent" less for the knowledge of how to replace the packing in my stuffing box, but more for the error my friend and I made in using the packing which we found onboard which was the incorrect size. So, I was making a humble sideways comment that we always have more to learn.

You are correct, the stuffing box in this CT 56 (not 54 footer) is different from what was in the Gulfstar I had. This one uses 2 opposing plates held together with 2 bolts. The previous one was the type with 2 large nuts requiring 2 monkey wrenches to adjust.

Though the packing in each of those follows the same general concept from there.

Thanks again,
Doug
 
#117 ·
Too funny.... :)

Actually, the galley has the typical white counter material, but the heads have some beautiful marble!

We will be replacing the faucets, shower plumbing, sinks, all the lights, and all of the door knobs.

But, we have no plans for installing granite, at this time.

Doug
 
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